Wetsuit full vs sleeveless vs None

tim cronk

Just completed a little test I thought I would share.  Comparing pace with different gear so put it in this forum but mighta been better served in gear forum.  

The test.... the last 3 days I did the same out and back point to point  1.1mile OWS with fullsuit , sleeveless , and no-suit (blueseventy tri-suit). Conditions very similar each day.  To be fair , Day 3 with no wetsuit  was the day after a 1.1mile swim , 100mile bike , and 3 mile run.  I would also say RPE felt the easiest on Day 1 and the hardest on Day 3.

 Day 1 ...  Full Wetsuit  28:36 and 28:42 (did it twice that day)

Day 2.... Sleeveless   29:05   I have lots of comps sleeveless to full and usually around 30 seconds slower per mile

Day 3 .... Tri-suit   33:07  quite surprised to be this slow (maybe take a minute off this if fresh)  this was also my first and maybe last no wetsuit OWS in NH for the season .....  water temp was 76 on 9/1 .

Interested to hear others comparisons.

kimmydct

Thanks for sharing! I have a sprint this weekend and could easily go without a wetsuit but wonder if time lost in the swim in regained in transition? Based on your results, looks like wetsuit might be better option...

Paul Hough

That's why you don't pros in anything other than a full wetsuit. At Muncie this year it was barely wetsuit legal and I used a sleeveless. I would have burnt up in a full, but all the pros had fulls because they cannot afford to give up anytime. A trisuit is not going to act like a speedsuit unless it was designed to duplicate one, e.g., the one piece Kiwami Amphibian.

[Deleted User]

I used to use a full sleeve wetsuit, but recently switched to sleeveless.

I agree that a full is faster, but I find that I'm actually a bit slower with one because the tightness around the shoulders jacks up my stroke. Also, the extra girth around my arms (non-negligible increase for a skinny dude like me, haha) creates a larger pulling area for my forearms, which changes the feel of the water and tends to fatigue me a little faster. That's probably because I'm not a very strong swimmer to begin with anyway...

new2703

Interesting to know. I've never used a full suit before. I use primarily sleeveless because it frees up my shoulders. One day I may breakdown and try a full. I just have no idea which one to use

MattAaronson

@ Tim, the wetsuit vs. no wetsuit time differential above doesn't surprise me at all. Here is some data from my recent races:

- Kansas 2012, speedsuit – 39:38 (some other issues with that swim as well)
- Vegas 2012, speedsuit – 37:14

- Racine 2013, wetsuit – 34:15
- Kansas 2013, wetsuit – 34:08

I realize the courses are never measured totally accurately and the conditions vary, but overall my experience is pretty consistent with a 3-4 minute differential between wetsuit and speedsuit. I suspect the speedsuit adds virtually nothing vs. just wearing tri shorts other than covering up the pockets of a tri top and preventing drag. But let me tell you the psychological benefits of that speedsuit combined with the crapton of coin I dropped on it are WORTH IT!!!

MattAaronson

Btw as for fullsuit vs. sleeveless, I think it is pretty well-accepted that the tradeoff in favor of fullsuit is a good one. Sort of like a disc always being fastest on a rear wheel. It is extremely rare for a pro triathlete to wear sleeveless...I can't think of the last time I saw that in a wetsuit-legal race. They seem to have no issue with "freeing up shoulders" although on EN there are quite a few people who use this reasoning. I think the only reason to wear sleeveless is if you are really concerned about overheating in warm water.

Al Truscott

Posted By Matt Aaronson on 02 Sep 2013 12:43 PM
Btw as for fullsuit vs. sleeveless, I think it is pretty well-accepted that the tradeoff in favor of fullsuit is a good one. Sort of like a disc always being fastest on a rear wheel. It is extremely rare for a pro triathlete to wear sleeveless...I can't think of the last time I saw that in a wetsuit-legal race. They seem to have no issue with "freeing up shoulders" although on EN there are quite a few people who use this reasoning. I think the only reason to wear sleeveless is if you are really concerned about overheating in warm water.

+ 1... If you need your shoulders "freed up", you need a different wet suit. E,g., DeSoto is designed so it fits better with arms stretched out in front ( as swimming), not at sides. Other suits accomplish this with looser underarm panells, stretchier or thinner neoprene, etc. Some suits works better for "big guys" others for lean guys. You gotta try a few to discover this. Also, swimming 30+ minutes *always* tires my arms out, even with no suit. How can you tell the suit is exacerbating that?

Unless the swim is 400 meters, a full sleeve wet suit will always result in a faster swim + T1 time, then no suit or even sleeveless for me. I've only ever worn sleeleless when water is over 75, and its a sprint.

BTW in 01, Tim DeBoom had a DNF in IM Oz when he passed out in 72f water ... Said he shoulda worn a sleeveless.

As to suit vs no suit, my experience was 120-150 sec diff for 1500 m, maybe six minutes for IM OWS. Both were different courses, though, ocean (no suit) vs lake (suit). Rough rule of thumb is 10%, the faster you are, the less the % percent decrement.

Racing Yoda

I've always used a full sleeve. I have always thought My arms are going to be tired either way.

Recently I did a test for my own good on speed suits. I tested a tyr torque versus a kiwaml amphibian with pad versus no speed suit. The kiwaml was ~2.5 sec per 100 faster than no suit. The tyr was ~3 sec faster per 100 than no suit. Overall the tyr torque was faster.

Paul Hough

Posted By Steve Hall on 02 Sep 2013 01:41 PM
I've always used a full sleeve. I have always thought My arms are going to be tired either way.

Recently I did a test for my own good on speed suits. I tested a tyr torque versus a kiwaml amphibian with pad versus no speed suit. The kiwaml was ~2.5 sec per 100 faster than no suit. The tyr was ~3 sec faster per 100 than no suit. Overall the tyr torque was faster.

But the Kiwami is also a trisuit and you will get the 7.5 secs you lost in a 1500 m back in T1 by not having to remove it.

Racing Yoda

Going back over my notes. It was roughly 5 seconds faster per 500 from Tyr versus Kiwami. My breaking point was oly and below was Kiwami. But that was me and if its non wetsuit legal.

new2703

I have no doubt full suits are faster but I need to experiment to see which ones feel right. The worry isn't so much about tired arms as impeded motion. Sounds strange but I'm very sensitive to how my shoulders move and feel in the water and wouldn't want the suit to disrupt that.

Racing Yoda

John, start with DeSoto. Emilio has a money back guarantee. Plus I just think its a great suit.

Sheila Leard

Check out this interview with Kate Bevilaqua: Going From 62 To 49 Minutes For An Ironman Swim.

She talks about changing her stroke because the wetsuit was making her shoulders tired. Something to experiment with. 

http://www.feelforthewater.com/

tim cronk

@Sheila.... I saw that interview... She changed her stroke but she also changed where she was looking... IOW they had her start lifting her head higher....I like the way they adjust to each swimmer individually.... I have worked overtime to get a faster stroke rate but lifting my head would not be a good idea as my legs like to sink.

Added a day 4 to the testing today.....
1 lap in the full suit @ 29:22 slower than last by 40-50seconds-- windy today
1 lap with just tri-shorts in 33:56 which was 50 seconds slower than tri-suit (which by the way is a Blueseventy front zip meant to be swam in but not a speedsuit)

The distances are exactly the same but conditions change...
For me I can expect.
1-3 seconds per 100yd faster in a tri-suit or speed suit vs. tri-shorts only ( I have confirmed this in a pool as well)
8-10 seconds per 100yd faster in a sleeveless or full over a non wetsuit swim
1-2 seconds per 100yd faster in fullsuit over sleevelss

differences in IM swims fullsuit vs no suit 6-10min

My actual IM times... NO SUIT -- IMLOU 1:17 , IMLOU 1:11 , IMCOZ 1:18 , IMTX 1:13
W/SUIT ----- IMFL 1:06 , IMMT 1:06

So the numbers seem to add up to the differential window's of others ....

atasic

I am surrounded by several uber swimers here in KC. Every single one races in sleeveless,  2 of the 4 regularly post pro level times at HIM races. Each cannot stand the restriction in shoulders of a full suit.

I am in the same boat, but nowhere near being as fast. I have several choices in my arsenal when racing. It is all dictated by water temp.

"BTW in 01, Tim DeBoom had a DNF in IM Oz when he passed out in 72f water ... Said he shoulda worn a sleeveless"

This is me too. Over 70F I do not wear a full suit. I overheat way way easy.

1. Xterra VPX2 full suit, anything 500y and over AND water temp below 70F, hate it hate it hate it, my shoulders give out, hate it, if I have not said it, had B70 top of the line, hated it hated hated it, shoulders restricted

2. Desoto Speedtube, combined with either 78 degree top or Amphibian, love this combo super fast for me and COOL, anytime water is over 70F but wetsuit legal

3. Amphibian only, love it, slower than all above but love the freedom

I have swam 2012 KS and 2011 Branson in skin, little faster than Amphibian but not much.

Unless Roka or Huub have something to offer, I have given up on full sleeves. I absolutely get exhausted with shoulder constriction and will have to work on changing the stroke to accommodate the suit. I have also gone to overheat in the suit in SC and LC racing to give time back and than some on the bike by recovering, just to push pedals..... 

 

John Withrow

Following the thread drift theme... I used to insist on a sleeveless only because of shoulder restriction and neck choking. Then I got a HUUB Archimedes and it changed everything. Once you put that thing on you forget it is there. It is like it is painted on and gives 0 restriction thanks to the supple thinner upper and super thin strategically placed panels. And the 1mm thick section at your throat is a godsend for anyone with a big neck or fear of suffocation issues. It is not marketing, that thing really is that awesome! And also maybe because of the 3mm upper, I have never noticed overheating...