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Building for an Ironman in your 60's

Just finished my last race, so it's time to think about next year.  This year, my goal was to race full diatance at Vineman.  I started with the January OS group as I've historically had trouble sticking to the plan if I start in November.  Starting in January fit perfectly with starting my 12 week IM plan 2 weeks after the OS ended. The OS went well.  Did most of the workouts (except I never do the Sunday bike - need that day off for family), and my FTP and VDOT went up.  Used the two weeks in between the OS and my IM plan mostly as recovery with a couple of quality runs and bikes the second week.  By the end of the fourth or fifth week of my IM plan, it was clear that the distance wasn't building like it needed to in order to be ready for an IM the last weekend in July.  I kept at if for a couple more weeks, then switched to the Vineman 70.3 - it went fine.  The two IM distance races I've done before (one when I was 59 and one at 61 - I'm 63 now) were both later in the year.  My question is do you all find it that you need a longer period of time to get ready than 14 weeks of OS and 12 weeks of race prep?  If so, I guess I need to either figure out how to get the work done with the Nov OS group or look for a later race than Vineman.

Comments

  • Bob ... in my experience, it's easy to get sucked into thinking one is not ready for an IM after the first 4-6 weeks of a twelve week plan. I've learned that training is "magic", and how I feel 6 weeks out from the race has no bearing on whether I can actually perform on race day. I don't expect to feel "ready" until maybe 36 hours before the race. The two key elements are 4-5 weeks of good IM prep training, followed by 2 weeks of a well-managed taper. If I feel like I'm ready to race 6 weeks out, then something's wrong with the design of the plan.

    Just like we don't need to run a marathon in training to be able to run one on race day, we also don't really need to be able to ride 112 miles or for 6-7 hours in training to be able to do that on race day.

    If you've been following Joe Friel's blog the past month, as he writes about how best to train as one gets towards his age (nearly 70), you might note that the EN methods are actually well-designed for those of us over 55. An emphasis on intensity over volume, and a respect for the value of rest and recovery, making sure that the workouts don't snowball into over-training.

    We're seeing a lot of great performances  from our over 55 EN racers. Just to mention a few this year: Bruce Thompson and Rick Goullard @ IM Wisconsin, Kate Leary @ IM LP. Last year, Carol DeFazio & I were both @ Kona, in the 60-64 AG. I don't think any of us did longer builds to get those results. I think we don't need "more" training than younger folks; if anything we need "less", at least in terms of volume and frequency.

    So to your specific question - is a late season IM better than an early season one? Here, I'll parrot what the coaches always say - thinking about an IM too long in advance - for me, that's 8-10 weeks out - is bad for your mental health. You could do just fine starting the OS in January, and doing IM CDA end of June. 24 weeks broken out as 12 weeks OS, 2 weeks of "tranisition" time, and 10 weeks of IM prep. If you want to do a late season IM - like FL, AZ, etc next year, that's fine, but you would need to have two seasons, with a re-boot around the end of June.

  • Al - thanks for the feedback. The two times that I've done IM distance races have both been in mid to late September. I started the OS in January, then switched to the HIM plan for Vineman 70.3 in mid July. Once I had Vineman successfully behind me, I started to worry about the IM. When I switched to the IM plan after just finishing 12 weeks of the HIM plan, moving up the volumes of my rides and runs was not a problem. I didn't feel like I was ready for 112 miles, but I could tell it wasn't going to be a problem. This year switching directly from OS to the IM plan, the volume just didn't feel like it was going to work. But I know you've done it. I guess I just need more faith that the plan will get me where I need to be by race day. Maybe add more volume to the last 3-4 weeks of the OS.
  • I have been lurking on this thread...always trying to pick up tips as I age.

    Al, what is the max weekly run volume you try to hit during your IM build?
  • Bob - I added more volume to both the bike & run in the last 6 weeks of the OS this past year.  So I think your idea to do that will work as a bridge from OS to IM plan. I added the volume in carefully and did so only on the weekend to the Sat ride and the Sunday run.  I got the Sat ride up to 3 hours and the Sun run up to 90 minutes. But I made sure I took both Fridays & Mondays completely off...nada, nothing but rest.  I added the volume b/c I was racing the American TTT 6 weeks after the end of OS. So after the OS, I took one very easy transition week (50% volume), 4 more weeks of building volume (up to 4 hour ride and 2 hour run), then 1 mini-taper week for the TTT.  After the TTT, I took three days off completely, then 11 more easy days for a total of 2 weeks recovery.  Then went into the12 IM plan for IMWI.  Finally, I had to take an extra easy taper for IMWI since I strained my rt calf 17 days before the race.  I basically shut my running down ( only two 4 mile runs in last 8 days before the race).  Net, I was very well rested and that seemed to help a lot, certainly more than I expected. 

    Paul - my max run mileage for the IMWI build was 35 miles culminating with last race rehearsal.  I also had a 32 mile week and a 30 mile week prior to that.  In all 3 of those weeks, half the mileage came from the Thursday long run.   For me body parts start to break above 35 miles/week.   


  • Posted By Paul Hough on 10 Oct 2013 08:09 PM


    Al, what is the max weekly run volume you try to hit during your IM build?

    I like questions like this, as it gets me to look back into my workout diary and get some data I might not otherwise pay attention to. My current records go back to 2007, but I started looking at IM AZ 2008. I looked at the 9 weeks before each race, and did not include the week of the race itself, so 8 total weeks in each cycle.

    Race/Year/# runs/total miles/maximum weekly mileage/longest run/race time

    IMAZ 2008   33   200   36   15, week 6 (to go before race)   4:05  **Pre-EN**

    ICDA 2009   34   212   38   17, week 6     4:09        **Pre-EN**

    Kona 2009   31   162   36   16, week 6   DNF run  **Just kinda starting EN**

    IMAZ 2009   32   182   37   16.3, week 4  4:03      **More EN**, overlaps Kona

    CDA 2010   25   190   31.4 18, week 4   4:15       **Now fully EN**

    CDA 2011   26   171   28.5  15. week 5   5:19      **Still recovering from neck/jaw injuries**

    IMAZ 2011   23   141  27.5   16, week 7   4:14      **No running week 5 to go, plantar fasciitis**

    Kona 2012   31   190   27.5   17, week 4  4:52      **Overlaps IM Canada 7 weeks out**

    I'm not drawing any conclusions from this data, but I am currently making a change in my running for my IM build leading to Arizona next month. I am doing more frequency, 4 runs each week, and thus increasing the distance back up to the low/mid 30s. Looking at my whiteboard, where I have my workouts sketched out until the week before the race, I see volumes of 32, 29.5, 32.5, 30, 29 leading into the taper. So my planned totals would look like this:

    IMAZ 2013  28   205    32.5   17, week 5   4:08 (2009's time + 2% for aging)  **Includes IMLT race week and recovery week after, but I only ran 6 miles @ LT**

  • At Bruce and Al, thanks for the feedback. I have been doing too much volume and plan on putting a 40 mpw cap on myself. I have had several 45 to 50 mile weeks before each IM and that volume is not helping. I can easily absorb 40 but above that my quality isn't worth crap and I carry a lot of fatigue. I think I will be better off pulling back and getting some more rest.
  • Been tracking this with keen interest....below is a post from AT as his revenge IM training plan.... I've been using it in prep for IMFL next month (did LP back in July)....very similar thoughts to those posted above....


    Kate - I've been there, several times, doing IMs 6-8 weeks apart, including last year Canada >> Kona.

    I don't think there is a one size fits all protocol, it all depends on how recovered you feel and what you can handle. But a couple of general principles I follow:

    One race rehearsal, 2-3 weeks ahead of the second IM, not two - your previous IM was that first RR! Once I did the full six hours, and once I did only five hours. My second IM after the five hour RR was much better than the one following the six hour RR, FWIW.
    Run frequency - I don't what you've been doing. The EN IM plans have us doing 5-6 runs a week. Me, I usually do 3 runs a week, maybe once a month I'll do four. I do the long runs, the intervals, and the "Saturday Run", which often ends up being on some other day. I think as we age, it's really individual. Some of us do better on shorter, more frequent runs. Others, like me, do better with the standard long and interval runs, but bag the other stuff, to allow at least 48 hours recovery between runs. You didn't get injured leading into LP? If so, then keep doing whatever you did leading up to that.
    Run length - If you were doing 5-6 runs a week, err on the side of shorter long runs (1:45-2 hours) and 2 miles worth of intervals each week.
    other thoughts:

    It's really important to keep in constant touch with your sense of fatigue and any niggling little sensations of hip/knee/ankle/foot injuries. Always be ready to take a day off to nip that stuff in the bud.
    It really only takes 3-4 weeks of training to get back up to race readiness. Meaning, September is the Golden Time for you.
    Quality over quantity when it comes to workouts. If you are too fatigued to hit the paces, don't do it just to get the time/miles in. The rest is more important than just slogging thru. OTOH, there is great value from doing 5 high quality workouts a week: a long run, a long bike, a good set of intervals in each, and a good hard swim workout of one hour. If you can get those in, you'll be fine on race day, assuming you can figure out how to adjust your already superior execution skills for the heat. That's another topic, for which there is some help in the wiki and in the forum.
  • One thing I think would be useful here is how Al discusses his consistent fitness across a year. Downtime then uptime becomes pretty costly at some point, so while you are managing fatigue / overuse injuries, we have to be cautious that you aren't de-training yourself to the point where you have a big hole to get out of at the start of your year (before the fitness itself begins).
  • Maybe the problem I had last year was letting my run go from when I finished my last race the first weekend in October until I started the OS in January. I kept the bike up pretty well, but I definitely started in a hole with the run. Maybe that caused additional fatigue that impacted my ability to scale the bike as well once I started my IM plan.
  • Following my experience over the past three years, with multiple episodes of down time related to injuries and a sequence of minor surgeries, along with my previous 10 years experience of no down times > 1 week, I will keep running and swimming at or above a basic level all the time, meaning at least 2 swims a week and 3 runs/20 miles a week.  Exception made only for intense ski weeks. Cycling I can let go for up to a month and not really worry too much about it.
  • I wanted to add....based on a book I'm reading (Run Less Run Faster....recommended from Steve West) and AT protocol from above, I've been running 3x per week.....tues = z4 intervals, Thur = EN long, Sat or Sun = tempo....this plan has been working really well....I've been hitting all my paces/intervals @ every wko and I'm able to really concentrate on my form especially on the long run....seems like the fatigue I normally carry when doing 4-5 runs/week is reduced and more importantly I really look forward to the run wko's....the only thing I'm considering for the next IM cycle would be add in a 4th run every other week .....so I would end up with both a Sat & Sun run 2x/month
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