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New PowerTap G3 Hub versus Stages

I have already read the DC Rainmaker reviews. I still have a couple of questions:

1. Do I have to get new wheels or can the PowerTap be fitted to my existing Mavic rear wheel?

2. Does the PowerTap work with the Garmin Forerunner 305? If not, looks like I will need to upgrade to at least the 500, which is an extra expense (I know I can use my I phone with Stages)

3. For anyone who has used Stages, is the single leg measurement really a significant issue? Based on the dc Rainmaker it does not sound like it (at least above 30 rpm)

Now that the cost of these is effectively the same, I could go either route. Your input is appreciated. I am a new member and getting back into TRI after a three year break. Here are my prioritized goals to give you some background on me:

1. Lose weight and improve run conditioning and endurance (8 min GR pace)
2. Increase bike speed and effectiveness without sacrificing endurance
3. Improve swim technique to get to "good" range for 1500m and 1.2 mi distances (I was at 40 min my last Oly)

Thanks so much everyone!


Comments

  • 1. Any competant wheelbuilder can rebuild an existing wheel around a new(or used) PT hub.
    2. You can buy a Joule for $99; from same manufacturer as PT, syncs flawslessly with NO issues, what I and many others use with PT as full spectrum bike computer
  • You could also buy an ANT+ sensor to attach to your iPhone if you really want to use the iPhone for your bike computer. But since you can't carry an iphone with you on race day I would suggest you go with either the LYC or Joule.

    I recently waffled over this exact same decision for my road bike. I ultimately opted to go with the Powertap for two reasons. 1) I can use that same wheel on my Cyclocross bike (swap out the tire) and thus I get the option for power on two bikes, 2) I've owned a Powertap for several years now on my TT bike and have found the customer service and reliability to be top notch. So, with the prices being essentially even, I chose the PT.

    PS- I had the PT built into an existing wheel and did pay a bit extra for spokes because, well, this bike is all about pretty and I wanted the wheels to match. :-)

  • Posted By Thomas Jones on 17 Oct 2013 08:02 AM


    I have already read the DC Rainmaker reviews. I still have a couple of questions:



    1. Do I have to get new wheels or can the PowerTap be fitted to my existing Mavic rear wheel?Depends on the wheel. And by the time you pay for shipping, labor for the teardown and rebuild, you're often better off just getting a new wheel.



    2. Does the PowerTap work with the Garmin Forerunner 305? If not, looks like I will need to upgrade to at least the 500, which is an extra expense (I know I can use my I phone with Stages) No, 305 won't work. I personally don't recommend using the iPhone. It's better to get a dedicated bike computer. You'll get hundreds of hours of use out of it. I prefer to veiw my phone as a safety / music device and don't want/need it sitting on my handlebars. 



    3. For anyone who has used Stages, is the single leg measurement really a significant issue? Based on the dc Rainmaker it does not sound like it (at least above 30 rpm) Highly recommend you go with proven and reliable which is what the PT is. 



    Now that the cost of these is effectively the same, I could go either route. Your input is appreciated. I am a new member and getting back into TRI after a three year break. Here are my prioritized goals to give you some background on me:



    1. Lose weight and improve run conditioning and endurance (8 min GR pace)

    2. Increase bike speed and effectiveness without sacrificing endurance

    3. Improve swim technique to get to "good" range for 1500m and 1.2 mi distances (I was at 40 min my last Oly)



    Thanks so much everyone!





    I'm a Powertap dealer through Wheelbuilder and offer team pricing. 

  • I have 4 PTs in my family. Two were bought used as stock built wheels, e.g., from Wheelbuilder. This is very cost effective if you're looking at a basic "training wheel" type rim or don't have something else that you're lacing it to.

    For some reason I can't remember, it was a lot cheaper for me to buy just a hub and have my LBS (which has a good wheel-builder) build one of the wheels. Saved $100-150 for some reason probably having to do with a discount or sale. Anyway, having them lace it up was no big deal.

    The last one is on a Zipp 404 that I picked up used and inexpensively. I knew it was going to need hub service/replacement soon anyway, and again, it wasn't a big deal for my LBS to do the build.

    In the current price environment, I'd probably buy new with a wheel pre-installed UNLESS I were buying it to go on something like FLO wheels which are possible to use for both training and racing or for a very specialized wheel that I ALREADY HAD, like an 808 rear...but that would mean it was my second PT.

    If the wheel you have is just a normal Mavic Open Pro, you won't save a lot by having it built into that, and you will have the advantage of having an extra rear wheel in case you ever have to have it serviced or anything like that.
  • @William

    Unfortunately you can't build a PT into FLO wheels at this point. As Rich said, you definitely can't build a PT into every wheel out there. In this specific case it's because of the hub flange diameter. At least this according to their FAQ.

    Whenever they get that worked out, the combo of a PT plus a set of FLO 60s or 30s will be nearly impossible to beat from a value proposition.
  • Thanks everyone for the feedback. I am definitely going to go with the PT. I also found an excellent wheel builder locally, so we should be good. He did tell me that my Mavic Krysium's cannot be retro fit, so it looks like I will have to get a bew set of wheels. Have an appointment next week with the wheel guy

  • Posted By Thomas Jones on 18 Oct 2013 10:01 AM


    Thanks everyone for the feedback. I am definitely going to go with the PT. I also found an excellent wheel builder locally, so we should be good. He did tell me that my Mavic Krysium's cannot be retro fit, so it looks like I will have to get a bew set of wheels. Have an appointment next week with the wheel guy

    PTs seem to be fairly rock solid in their reliability.

    While having a local connection may be the way to go, I've had great success with wheelbuilder.com, where Coach Rich gets us a 10% discount. They do a very big business putting PTs into lots of types of high end wheels, as well as workhorse "training" wheels. There's a lot to be said for that track record. It might be worth your to check out what's available there, and even send Rich a personal message to get more advice on wheel selection. The most expensive is not always the most cost effective choice; a standard wheel for everyday use with a $90 wheel cover to convert it to a disc wheel for races is what many folks use.

  • Counter.

    stages at least $200 cheaper. More versatile, imo, if you have same length and type cross your bikes.

    I personally don't like the powertap computers. Antiquated.

  • Posted By robin sarner on 20 Oct 2013 05:36 AM
    Counter.

    I personally don't like the powertap computers. Antiquated.

    Robin: explain, please. What functionalities will I get from Garmin ($250-$400) that I don't already have from my Joule (sunk cost of $100)?

  • Posted By robin sarner on 20 Oct 2013 05:36 AM


    Counter.



    stages at least $200 cheaper. More versatile, imo, if you have same length and type cross your bikes.



    I personally don't like the powertap computers. Antiquated.

    Not very many people are using the Joule anymore, most go with Garmin units so that's a moot point.

    I don't think $200 matters either. Consider that this is $200 amortized over 5-10hrs of reliable, trouble free, I've got good data cycling per week, about 48 wks per year for several years = the $ difference in the initial investment is a non-issue, in my opinion.

    I really couldn't tell you how much I paid for my '02 Calfee, '06 P3C, or '10 Powertap, because I've gotten so many hours of reliable use out of them. 

  • Biggest difference Al is GPS.... Unless you have Joule with GPS, but I don't think many people do, although, I have one.... image

  • Posted By Dino Sarti on 21 Oct 2013 01:52 AM


    Biggest difference Al is GPS.... Unless you have Joule with GPS, but I don't think many people do, although, I have one....

    I've found barometric (on the Joule) to be more accurate than GPS for altitude, % grade and total elevation gain, when compared to my Garmin 310 XT. The new Joule with GPS costs less than a Garmin 510. So I'm puzzled why people are dissing it. GPS altitude is constantly wandering (gov't enforced dithering to protect the military-grade GPS?), causing % grade to also wander, and total elevation gain to be falsely high.

    Still waiting for a reason to ditch my Joule and buy a Garmin head unit...

  • The 510 has a barometer.

    The real difference with respect to GPS versus non-gps is the ability to see the route next to the power file. For me, I find the analysis richer with more context relative to which points in the route. I also like to see the GPS map. I just like to look at what I achieved after a long route. Plus, love it or hate it, no Strava without GPS. Lastly, files with GPS are really the only ones worth sharing with non-cycling fiends.

    The reason I stopped using my Joule with GPS was that I didn't like the way the pages were laid out. I found it less configurable and flexible then the Garmin pages. I also didn't like the way the buttons felt and worked. Finally, no start button? Come on? I gotta record the ride from my car to the starting line? It just seemed a little quirky....
  • Wow. This is great discussion. I appreciate everyone's enthusiasm and input/discussion.

    I am awaiting my quote from Coach Rich in the PT G3 and wheels combo. I decided to upgrade to the 910 from my 305. This is best for me as I am already used to using Garmin for my bikes and runs. I am very interested in how the 9 will work for swim training.

    I also took advantage of the sweet deal at jack and adams, so I feel really good about the value for the $$$.

    I am really enjoying the training, coaching, and support from EN. Thanks for everything so far.
  • My big gripe with Garmin vs Joule is the Garmin does not allow display of Intensity Factor or Normalized Power for the current lap. IMO, that metric (I use IF) is the most important thing to watch during interval training and races.
  • @Al- I don't know about IF (because I don't specifically use that during rides), but I do use Lap NP on my Garmin as one of my most important cells for training and racing... I like Strava too much so having a device that doesn't have GPS would be a non-started for me...
  • @Al - John nailed it above. That's is a weird one since it's just math based on numbers they are already gathering. I think it would be an easy software upgrade. Fingers crossed that they do it.

    I use lap NP and Lap Avg Pwr quite a bit. Lap IF would be cool too.
  • I was specifically referencing the 910 XT. I assume John and Dino are talking about 500/800 series?

    But you guys are getting me to think I ought to get a new bike and all the accoutrements next year, in honor of: retiring, becoming 65, and celebrating 15 years in triathlon.

    A Trek Speed Concept with Di2 Ultegra, Stages PM, and Garmin Head Unit? I'd only use it for races I could drive to, though image
  • Lap NP works on the 910xt as well as all of the other power data that is on the 500/510/800/810. It isn't available on older units such as the 310xt.

    FWIW, I think you have definitely earned all of those new toys!
  • Yeah, I forget about Interval IF on the old Joule. That's money for IM racing, for sure. Seems stoopid that Garmin doesn't have that yet. It's just data they are already collecting.
  • Al.     The issues that Dino mentions.     Etc.      The weird calibration thing where the number is nine times was it is supposed to be.   Have they fixed that firmware problem of many years yet?

    Every powermeter has its issues.    have not had better luck with our powertaps.   we have pro+ and G3.   intermittent problems with bike computer connectivity and calibration.       in the 21st century,  these things should be rock solid always. 

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