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Thomas Jones' Micro Thread

I am looking for some input on my training plan. I am having some pain off and on in my right ankle area. I believe Ia m good on the short speed workouts. I did my long workout this past weekend on the treadmill. I am going to go to the chiropractor this week.

I have not been doing any swimming yet, as I want to get the drills down.

Any suggestions on how to adjust the run durability training plan?

Thanks

Thomas
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Comments

  • @Thomas, any pain is bad pain. Theres a lot you are leaving off in terms of info. Is it instant pain? Post run pain? Pain when landing? Pushing off? Any changes in your shoes recently? Have you ever had the pain before?

    If you can answer those questions that will help! I think that I'd rather have you doing some light cycling right now as you get the run sorted out....perhaps even hit the pool. If you aren't starting the OS on 10/28 then you will have time to recover....otherwise you and I might have to make some modifications here!!! Please keep me posted!
  • It was primarily post run pain last week but now it seems more persistent. On Sunday, I felt the pain before the run. Noticed it was worse when pushing off. By the time I had warmed up, it went away. But I did run on the treadmill just to be on the safe side. I was out of town and got in 60 minutes at GRP.

    Is there anything in particular I need to focus on with the cycling? I will also need guidance on the swim. It took me 40 mins to do1500M in my last Oly. I know I have several technical opportunities to reduce drag and increase speed. Some direction would be beneficial.

    Right now, I am scheduled to start OS on 10/28. I plan to start my season in April with a series of Sprints and Olys leading up to Augusta 70.3 in September.
  • Coach -

    I biked during lunch today. I do not have a power meter yet. My goal was to keep cadence 80+. Here are my stats:

    Time: 60 mins
    Avg cadence: 81
    Distance: 13.8
    Avg speed: 13.8

    It is pretty hilly where O live so food for training. What should I do tomorrow? Thursday morning I have a 60 min hot yoga session and then my chiropractic appt in the afternoon.

    Also, does this mean I delay the start of my OS plan? Do I pick up where I left off at week 3 of run durability when My ankle recovers?
  • @Thomas, I think that you should plan on pushing the OS back to January. That will give you time to really address the foot pain; much better long term play but harder to swallow in the short term. Think of it this way -- your 2014 self with thank you. image

    In terms of a plan, I suggest you load the Bike Focus Beginner level plan to end in six weeks (12/1). It has Mondays OFF (keep that) and runs on Wed / Sunday. You would replace those days with swims…let me know if you can't swim on Sunday.

    Given no races coming soon, you can go 100% technique on your swim…so head over to the swim portion of the wiki (Resources / Wiki / Table of Contents / Swim: http://members.endurancenation.us/Resources/Wiki/tabid/91/Default.aspx?topic=Swimming+Master) to download the swim eBook and start working on the Position Progression.

    If you need me to give you some actual swim workout specifics, let me know.

    Also let me know what the chiro says re your foot…

    Finally, try to keep that cadence in the 90rpm range…sounds like you are mashing gears a bit…do you know what cassette you have on the back (the largest one, how many teeth)?
  • Coach-

    Just got back from the chiropractor. My ankle was actually feeling better after laying off for a few days and getting in some yoga. He adjusted my hips and feet, which foxed the problem. He wants me to run over the weekend and do a follow up visit next week. He encouraged me to keep running.

    I have an Ultegra 6700 compact crank with Ultegra 28 tooth cassette. On the flats, I generally bike on the big ring in 2nd or 3rd gear. My area is pretty hilly, so I am normally in lowest gear on steep inclines and in the lowest gear on the big ring for lower hills. On downhill, I normally take it up a couple of gears to keep my cadence strong and smooth. Should I be doing something differently?

    Also, for the bike test (for the bike focused plan) should I use my trainer due to the hills or travel to a more flT area?

  • Thomas you can run but keep it short like 30 mins, no intensity and not back to back days please (at least as we start back to running). I guess I want to make sure that you aren't grinding on the flats...if you can keep your cadence around 85-90 you'll be a much happier camper overall (exceptions are if you are very tall or have thighs like Thor God of Cycling/Thunder). I recommend the bike test on the trainer indoors esp if you will end up there in the winter!
  • Thanks Coach. I am going to do one test run on Sunday for 30 minutes and will do my follow up visit with the chiro next week. Will take it slow.

    I have been biking ~85 cadence on the flats and high 70s on the inclines. I will keep the gears lower on the flats. As I get more fit, I am sure my speed will increase.

    Thanks again for all the feedback. Will keep you posted on the progress.
  • Coach -

    I completed my bike test today on the indoor trainer. Any feedback? I believe I am following your advice. Take a look at the details to confirm. I will also update my training zones based on this data.

    Once I get my Forerunner 910 later this week I will have my Ant+ and can utilize Training Peaks. Thanks.

  • @Thomas I am confused..the HR test is a 40 minute TT effort. I see you did 12' on / 4' off (twice through) but that's a regular workout not a test one. Can you tell me where you got that workout from? Still good data as we can see you average 155 bpms and 18.2 mph at your threshold efforts...but a test will help us more...looking forward to the info!!!
  • You're right. I did the wrong workout. Will take the test later this week and update you. Thanks.
  • Ok Coach. I did the correct 40' TT test today. Here are the results (see attachment)
  • Thomas, nice work! You will want to update that in the Zones part of the site (Training Plan / EN Calculators) and also submit to the Heads / Tails form for our input: http://bit.ly/1aidXuu

    Nice work!!!!
  • 42 mile bike ride - Tour de Tugaloo (Taccoa, GA)...coaching please

    Coach. Here are my stats from the ride. This is the longest ride I have ever done. I have done a couple OLYs before and done about 35 miles on a training ride. I felt really good about the 1st half - seemed like my numbers dropped off second half. I also still need coaching on handling the massive elevation changes we have here. Here is a link to my training peaks - any advice would be appreciated: http://www.trainingpeaks.com/av/AQO3CIXVCMNZXDYKPQIUZKGTMY
  • Swim...

    I did my first swim training today. My golf score was 42 strokes x 1:09. I have a lot of room to improve in this area. A couple things I noticed today were tight hips and limited rotation. I also noticed my legs fell down whenever I took a breath. I am following the progression training (and the technical training workout) in the swim ebook and training guides. My goal is to get down to the 40x40 as soon as possible. Anything else I should be doing? I am following the adjusted bike focused plan, substituting Su/We swim for run and keeping Mon/Fri as off days. I missed the Wed swim in week 1 and starting week 2 tomorrow. My scheduled end date is 12/8. Thanks.
  • @Thomas, on the ride it looks like there are two areas I would cite for improvement. First is your pacing; you started the first 40 minutes at a great pace, but faded over the course of the ride. So working to make the first 1/3 of your ride at a smart pace / being conservative, then focus on getting stronger. The second is your cadence...your average cadence was 76 which is VERY LOW compared to what we'd like to see -- closer to 90. I don't know if you have the right gearing (12/28 for hilly area, maybe even consider a compact crank on the front: 50/34 vs the standard 53/39.

    On the swim, you need to work on your body position. That kick on your side drill is huge....keeping that top hand, resting on your hip, OUT of the water as your head is in (Easy) then keeping it out of the water as you turn to breathe (HARD, you will need to push your armpit down in the water so your hips stay out. That will be the biggest bonus for you...
  • Ok coach. Thanks for the input.

    BIKE: Yes, the first 1/4 of the ride my cadence was in the low 90s. Then it dropped to mid 80s by the middle of the race and then it fell off significantly the last half of the race. I was not sure if that was due to the extreme hilliness of the back half of the course or not. I do have a compact crank...what are your thoughts on the cassette for a hilly area? We pretty much have hills everywhere here.

    SWIM: I will keep focusing on the beginning part of the progression drills on the swim.

    FITNESS: I lost 25 lbs in October. I'm looking to drop another 40-50 lbs by the Januray OS, so I know that will help tremendously as well. I am really honing in on my diet and following the training plan.

  • I am travelling next weekend (11/22-24)and wanted some feedback on adjusting my workout schedule. I am thinking I should move the bike workouts to M, W, and F; shift the Wed swim to Tu; shift my off day to Thurs from Fri and skip my Mon off day. Let me know your thoughts. Thanks!

    Sun 17 - Swim (as scheduled)
    Mon 18 - Bike
    Tues 19 - Swim
    Wed 20 - Bike
    Thurs 21 - Off
    Fri 22 - Long Bike
    Sat 23 - Off
    Sun 24 - Swim (as scheduled)
  • @Thomas, I think your travel schedule looks good. How's the ankle coming along?

    We usually recommend a 50-34 front, with an 11-28 in the rear. That gives you an incredible range. But given your fading, that's a pacing / fitness issue. If you can lose anywhere NEAR as much weight as you are planning, you'll be FLYING next season!!! Please keep us in the loop with your progress....it's very motivational!
  • @ Coach Patrick - great news on the crank/cassette - that is exactly what I have; the ankle seems to be progressing well; I added Collagen Hydrolysate to my diet which has been excellent for both muscle recovery and the joints.  I am going to do a test run 5k within the next week or so and see how it responds. I will keep you posted.   
  • Sat ride: http://www.trainingpeaks.com/av/47DXPAD5THQJJEQFR6ON2FTEWY

    Thurs ride: http://www.trainingpeaks.com/av/OOJ3EZOK3GVH5EQFR6ON2FTEWY

    I believe my watts were too low on my test this past Tues. i bumped my FTP up to 160 and seems about right based on Th and SA rides. I read in the wiki were this happens some tomes. My legs seemed very comfortable at the 85% power - now if my butt can get adjusted to the trainer I will be good to go.
  • @Coach Patrick: I did the 5k run test today. I started out a little too fast on the pace but felt really good. I think the compression socks (never used them before) helped. I am down to 28:03 My 5k time the last time I was doing tri was 24:00 (so getting back on track - I was also about 20 lbs lighter than I am now).

    I will see how I am feeling on Tues. If I still feel good, I will do the run workout. How does that sound? If things continue to progress, will it make sense to do the DOS? That will put me on track to start the short course plan on 3/10 (based on Coach Rick's rec).

    Here is the workout: http://www.trainingpeaks.com/av/PVQW4N2FDNTRPM777NC6LIWO2U

    The opportunities I see: work on getting cadence to 90 avg (I am at 81); continue working sprints and intervals to increase pace; continue to lose weight. Let me know if you have any other coaching. I will keep you posted.
  • @Thomas, excellent work and I love your momentum. Your two top "big picture" priorities are weight loss and consistency. The individual workouts are nice, but keep the big picture in mind -- let no one single workout prevent you from doing the next. As for the weight, continue making smart choices..it usually takes six weeks for your body to "come around" to sustainable, consistent weight loss. Note - We have a 12/10 webinar on the topic of daily nutrition with the team from the Core Diet...stay tuned for details on that, you'll want to register...
  • Coach P -

    Things are going great in the OS. I am down 14 pounds since the beginning of the OS - 36 more to go! I am travelling next week and want to get some advice on adjusting WK8 - I will be in town from Su-We, so I will be able to get my tests in. I will be out of town Th - Su (2/27-3/2). My main issue is no access to the bike. Should I just replace those workouts with runs or should I workout on a spin bike for at least one of the workouts. I know working out on a spin bike is not optimal, but I am making a lot of gains and just concerned about losing momentum. Thanks!

  • Another quick question - at what point in my training do I need to focus on my positioning on the bike and bike fit. I have been using the trainer in the OS and have not been focusing on it at all. Just want to know at what point do I need to start honing in on that. Thanks,.
  • @thomas, congrats on such amazing progress!!!! If you can get in one spin bike ride on your trip, great…otherwise fill the time with runs (do the actual run workouts and on other workout days you need to replace you can do a 45 minute run in Zone 2, etc.

    We don't really focus on your position until you transition to your Race Preparation plan. And that happens when your A Race nears, usually 8 to 12 weeks prior. If you have never been fit, however, then you might want to get that done sooner rather than later so you can adjust. Make sense?
  • Totally bonked on today's Sat brick workout and want some feedback:

    I have not bonked on the bike since I made the mistake 1 time of doing the run before the bike on the Sat brick workout. Today, I totally bombed my 2nd 18' FTP interval. My RPE on the run also felt a lot higher than normal for a Z2/Z3 run. Here are some things that were different for me this week.

    1. Started swimming - M had a 1 hour coaching session; W and F did swim drills and slow laps (focusing on technique) for 20-25 minutes each day
    2. Got my pro bike fit done after Thursday's bike workout (not sure if that added any work out load or not) - took 2.5 hours for the fit.
    3. My ankle felt a little off on Wednesday so I skipped the run - wasn't sure if that was due to the swimming or not (ankle felt fine today)
    4. Sleep - I noticed my sleep seemed off this week too - taking longer to go to sleep and not sleeping as soundly as I normally do - waking up earlier than normal
    5. I did get new Speedplay pedals and an Adamo racing seat - so that could also have impacted my performance (I definitely felt my bum getting sore faster than normal) - i noticied that it felt easier to maintain FTP with the new peadls, so I was surprised by the bonking today

    My diet has been pretty consistent, so I don't think that is it. I am focusing on body comp but not depriving myself. I don't think I am skimping on post-workout meals - pretty much doing the same thing as always. Still losing 2-3 pounds a week, which I have been doing the last 3 months.

    Here are my thoughts about adjustments:
    1. Get more sleep - use night mask and ear plugs to blackout light and sound; go to bed earlier; turn off electronics earlier
    2. Give myself some time to adjust to the fit changes on the bike and the addition of the swimming. I am still doing yoga on M and F - primairly for flexibility so don't plan to change that unless you have thoughts about that
    3. Continue my weekly chiro appointment - he has been working wonders

    Do you have any other thoughts or suggestions? I will see how things go on tomorrow's run. I am not too overly excited about it but wanted to take advantage of the experts. Thanks.
  • Today's Run Update:

    Felt much better today. I did get so e extra rest before the run.

    Warm up mile: 8:18

    I tervals:
    800 @ 7:34 pace
    800 @ 7:44 pave
    1600 @ 8:01 pave

    My recent Z4 runs have been between 7:45 and 8:05 so these are right on target

    Then i did a hilly 3.5 miles @ 9:30 pace

    Mile 1 @ 9:30
    Mile 2 @ 9:39
    Mile 3 @ 9:19
    Last 0.5 @ 8:50 pace

    Let me know if I need to make any other adjustments going into my second week with swimming. Thanks!
  • Thomas, thanks for checking in. First thing that jumps out at me is 3 (new) hours of swimming on top of two hours of yoga, plus a 2.5 hour bike fit....and your regular training week. Then we add in a ton of new equipment. YIKES! There's so much going on here it's hard to sort out.

    I think your focus on swimming TECHNIQUE should continue, not hard swimming please.

    And yes to improved sleep, that's the cure-all for most of this. Hopefully you aren't coming down with something, but your Sunday run performance certainly suggests you are doing fine.

    Please keep me posted!
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