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Thai Mai 2014 Season Micro Thread

Hi Coach,

So I did my VO2/FTP test on Monday and 5K yesterday.  Bike is my weak sport as you will see from my numbers.

The last time I tested my FTP was back in June (with TrainerRoad) doing their 2x8' test and my FTP on the trainer was 179.  

I either burned a lot of matches in the 5' VO2 effort on Monday and/or regressed but now my FTP is 162.  The NP for the 5' VO2 effort was 219.

Today's bike workout called for 6x1.5' at VO2 of 194 (162*1.20).  This set was challenging but manageable and kept NP leveled in all 6 intervals.  

My question to you is should I keep my VO2 efforts for future workouts maxed at 194 or adjust to 219?  

Thank you!

Thai

Comments

  • Thai, you can stick with the 219 as long as you can sustain it across the intervals! If not, find the difference between the 219 and 120% of your FTP. As for the difference you might have gone a bit backwards, but let's be clear that 2x8 is VERY, VERY different than a 20' test. Don't get too attached to last year's numbers, lets focus on making this year's numbers that much better!!!
  • Hi Coach,

    On Friday Nov 22nd, I'll be traveling to Asia for 2 weeks. I'll be returning on Saturday Dec 7th. No access to bike while out of the country.

    For the following 2 weeks, should I concentrate more (or exclusively) on the bike and lay off (or reduce intensity) the running?

    Should I do Saturday Nov 23rd workout the day before?

    Your thoughts on this would be appreciated.

    Thai
  • Hi,

    I've been struggling with whether or not I should mention this but to get the full use of EN coaching, I should mention that I am struggling with a strain right calf.

    Bike is not a problem.  I don't feel my calf.

    For the run, after a 15 min warmup at z1 pace, I can do the z4 intervals and spend the rest of the time on z2/z3 without feeling my calf (much).  But i feel it enough to worry me that I may cause more damage if I go further.  I've been cutting the run short by 10' or so.  But looking at this week's workouts, the runs are getting a little longer too.

    My post run routine is to lie on my back and have my legs up on the wall then follow up with rolling my shin and calf on the rumble roller.  Followed that with icing all day.

    I've started seeing a sports chiropractor and have another appointment this wednesday.  

    Like I mention in my previous post, I'll be traveling in a couple of weeks and will only be able to run while i'm out of town.  Should I rest my calf and have it treated and hope that it'll be back 100% for weeks 5 and 6?

    Any thoughts on how I can minimize impact on running?

    Thai

  • Thai, thanks for all the info. Always, full disclosure is best!!! I agree on emphasizing the bike / dropping the run down for the next two weeks. I suggest you cut the run to like 30 minutes, minimal intensity (just steady). On the run days and off days, you need to work on your calf...incredible guidance here (via the body map, then videos) for the calves: www.athletestreatingathletes.com

    If you really wanted to dive in, you could add a bike to Sunday as a steady, Zone2 ride for 60-90 minutes (but not required).

    When you are away we'd be looking at a run block, aka some consistent running...even 45 minutes a day for 5 days a week adds up...but first we have to get a handle on your calf. Please keep me posted!
  • Hi coach,

    Wanted to give you an update.

    Did the Tuesday bike workout but didnt run after. Had my appointment with chiro on wednesday and knowing it was going to be painful, i decided to not aggravate my gastroc. Interesting thing is that an hour after the bike, my inner thigh started to hurt like crazy. From high up in the groin all the way down to the knee. All this time i thought it was my calf that was causing my inner thigh pain!

    A quick online search shows that main reason for this pain is seat is too high. My chiro said that this will cause the gastroc pain considering i'm feeling the pain on the inner gastroc.

    Lowered the seat 3-4mm and did thursday workout without pain! Calf is still tender but have been running just 30 min in z1. So far calf feels fine. Hoping by next week i can resume the run intervals.

    Thanks

    Thai
  • Thai...look at you problem solving!! If you are comfortable, feel free to post a picture of you on the bike (from the side)...someone might have some insights for you that could help. You can just start your own thread and ask for some input (you can tell them to be nice!). image Let me know if you need some help!
  • OK, I'll take a pix of my trainer setup once I get back from my trip.  I'm not totally 100% happy with my bike fit from the LBS and have heard of mix results for the expensive bike fitting service around here.  Hopefully team members (and those around the Bay Area) can give me some guidance to maximize my fit.

    I know it's a little early but I wanted enough time for you to reply and get a printout of what you think I should do for weeks 5 & 6.

    I'll be flying late Friday night and will arrive in Asia sometime on Saturday the 23rd.  I am flying back on Saturday Dec 7th.

    Just looking for run guidance the next couple of weeks as well as after my return on the 7.

    Thanks again!

    T

  • Week 5 & 6 on the road = more run time but we have to wary of your calf. I hope you are still working on it!!!

    Here's a template week you can repeat...

    Mon - OFF as planned.
    Tues - Short run or Xtrain (stairmaster/elliptical/etc) of 30', with core work afterwards (ideas in Wiki).
    Wed - Run intervals as planned.
    Thu - Short run or Xtrain (stairmaster/elliptical/etc) of 30', with core work afterwards (ideas in Wiki).
    Fri - OFF as planned.
    Sat - Sunday run here.
    Sun - Short run or Xtrain (stairmaster/elliptical/etc) of 30', with core work afterwards (ideas in Wiki).

    When you come back...we want to dive back into a regular week, no bike overloading (there's plenty of work and adapting required just to "get back!").

    The most important thing you can do on the trip is STAY HEALTHY!!!
  • Hey coach,

    I think this Outseason is a bust for me.  From the calf issues plaguing me the last 2 weeks while I was in Asia to this morning bike workout that cause some major adductor pain afterwards, I don't see me doing well exiting the OS in 6 weeks.

    I'm suspecting that the root cause is a poor bike fit that's causing the adductor problems which then affects my calf which never had a chance to heal.  

    I have a bike fit scheduled for this Saturday.  Do you think it's wise for me to lay off the bike and let the inflammation go down enough to get tomorrow's run workout in?  Maybe do it Friday to give my adductor/calf a few days to rest?

    The bike fitter has some pretty great raving reviews on Yelp so I'm hoping that they can get me back on the saddle without pain to finish this OS with a little improvement in my bike/run numbers.

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

    T

  • Thai, yes, I remember the bike fit issue from when we talked. That said, I am not sure you ever posted a bike picture here? If possible, have them take an iphoto picture so you can post it here. Would love to see it...yes, chill the bike until fit..and even then you'll need a few days to see how it really feels...as your calf comes around, let's get back into it....so maybe use the OutSeason plan as a guide for B/R but do the time, not the intensity until we get you back on track! How does that sound?
  • Hi coach P,

    I'm still not use to this whole coaching thing so I do apologize for not replying back in a timely manner.

    To recap:

    1) Last tuesday bike was first bike workout since I got back from Vietnam.  Horrible groin/adductor pain.  Stopped running and biking for 2 days and ran Friday for 30@Z1.

    2) Saturday 4 hours bike fit.  Way different from the fit at LBS.  


    3) I've been running 30 min@Z1.  Right calf feels fine.  When I add 3x20s strides, I can feel my soleus after the run.  During the strides nothing.  Nothing major just a tad tender.

    4) I've been riding 30min@Z1 on my trainer.  Although the groin/adductor are not flaring up, it's still tender.  I have been foam rolling and trigger point release (per AtA site you recommended).  

    Obviously bike/run test this week was out of the question.  There's 6 weeks left to the OS.  What are your thoughts on my situation?  I've never had groin/adductor issues plus I have to slowly get use to the new (radically different) bike fit.  

    Maybe this is a coach R/macro level question but I would like to see your thoughts on the following:

    I wanted to do Wildflower 70.3 and Vineman 140.6 next year.  Signed up for Vineman but wasn't financially able to sign up for WF just yet.  If I skip WF, do you think I can do the January OS and still be on track for Vineman training?  I would like to do very well on that if it means not doing WF in 2014.  

    I'm just very bummed that these injuries are preventing me from getting faster since I'm so horribly slow to start off with.  

    Thai

  • Oh I did have a question:

    How should I approach my new bike fit?  What I mean is how do I ramp up back to normal training?

    It's been a week since the fit and I've ridden 4x30min@Z1.

  • @Thai, thanks for the update. If you haven't already, you can click the white check box at the top or bottom of this page to "subscribe to email notifications" and then you will get this feedback from me (or at least a link to it!) in your inbox....much easier to track.

    Yes, you can do Vineman without WF, but it would be nice to have a race in there beforehand. More than anything, my concern isn't your racing but getting you healthy enough to train! You are right to back off with the groin/adductor pain, but if you are still doing 4 x 30 in Z1 come March things will not be good!!!

    I say that you continue the rebound for another week. This week I would suggest you follow the rhythm of the plan. Days Off = rolling / self care. Then bike/run/etc as the plan says...just keep the intensity down as you (A) adjust to the bike (B) continue the comeback. The only exception here is the Sunday run which I would keep to 45 minutes or break into run/walk for no more than 60 minutes.

    The goal here is to be able to try some BIKE intensity once we hit next week...run we can still be more gradual.

    Hope that helps!

    ~ Patrick
  • Yes, I subscribed to this thread so that I am notified of when you respond.

    Wanted to give you another update yesterday before you answered but was busy with last minute shopping.

    I did Saturday's bike workout (minus the 2nd 15min@Z4) for 1h15m at my current FTP and no adductor pain! Glad to know the $300 bike fit wasn't for nothing.

    Also did Sunday's run workout at my current Z4 pace for 55m but the started to feel a slight twitch in the soleus. Ended it after that. Went home, rolled and iced it but no pain!

    Today (Tuesday), the calf is a little stiff but no pain or tenderness, so will take my time to warm up properly before the main bike set. Will do 2x12m on the bike (since 1x15m felt fine) and keep the rest of the workout as is.

    Will update you Thursday to let you know how today's bike and tomorrow's run went.

    As for my races next year, if the next couple of weeks I feel recovered and am back 100% on my paces/intensities, you think I should do WF instead of the January OS? Do you feel that a 70.3 would be best before Vineman or a couple of sprint/oly would suffice to prep for Vineman? I'm not oppose to doing WF at all. Just want to get all the opportunities to get fast/strong before Vineman.

    Thanks again.
  • Hey coach,

    Here's an update from yesterday and today's workouts:

    1) I did 2 of the 3 bike intervals and still felt good.  But I think I will do the run at a later time during the day going forward.  I did the run right after the bike and my calf felt tender after the run.  

    2) I did 3 of the 4 run intervals.  I started the 4th one but after 200m, I felt my calf twitch a little so stopped.  During the intervals themselves, I felt fine and really had to slow down to keep with my Z5 pace.

    Thai

  • Thai, thanks for the updates. I am totally fine with you separating out the run; almost sounds like you need a separate run warm up protocol, etc, so I'd rather you are very careful with that -- biking just beforehand could confuse that process. Let's continue with the foam rolling and, if you can, some trigger point -- the calf work I learned from Leigh's site is pretty darn epic: www.athletestreatingathletes.com (go to the body map, search from there).

    I have a personal bias towards having you race once before your "big" race, if only to get the cobwebs out...BUT...that doesn't have to mean WF with travel / crazy lodging, etc....could be a sprint or olympic more local to you!

    Hope that helps!

    ~ Patrick
  • Hi Coach,

    I wish I was coming to you with better news about my calf... I was hoping that the 2 weeks of swim camp with reduced running would be the key to recovery but unfortunately after today's run, my calf is pretty tight and painful.

    While going through the general forum, I came across a thread on the Hoka One One shoes and how EN members have raved about them.  The common thread was that they were over 40 and are injured... Sounds like me!

    So I went out and got a pair!  The new Bondi 3. Keeping my fingers crossed that these would help me stick with the volume/intensities in the plan.

    I wanted to ask you if I should modify the next couple of weeks of running so that 1) swelling & pain goes down a bit after today's run and 2) get use to the Hoka's (if they need to get use to that is).

    Thank you

    Thai

  • @Thai. let's keep focusing forward. I think yes to keeping the run volume low as you adjust; you can also wear the Hokas around during the day to break them in (as much as you can!). That said, you might need to be more proactive with your self care --- rest alone might not solve it. Here's a great resource: www.athletestreatingathletes.com -- you can click on the body map and head to the calf section.
  • Hi Coach,

    Just a quick update. Calf is feeling great but have kept my runs to EP paces for now unfortunately. Had a relapse a couple of weeks ago when I did the Tues/Wed/Thurs WKOs as prescribed. Was eager to start the 20weeks strong but it was the case of 'Too much too soon' considering I wasn't running that much the previous weeks when I was going to see a chiro AND a PT. The PT has me doing specific glute medius activation/strength exercises and stretches. Working so far but I guess I need to build endurance back.

    I will stay with my current vDOT of 40's EP pace of 10min/mile for the next 4 to 5 weeks until week 8 run test. In the meantime, I'll be adding more and more running time and hopefully re-introduce MP and IP paces back in a couple of weeks.

    I wanted to touch base with you to see if I can add a big bike week at week 6 (4/14). I've been doing all my bike wkos and hitting all zones and feel great. Really happy with how my bike wkos been coming along and would like to add some endurance to my legs. I know BBW is not required but since my run is so-so at the moment, I want to make sure I'm 100% ready for the bike.

    Looking at my family schedule, I should be fine hitting the mon/tues/wed/fri mileage targets but the remaining sat/sun rides are problematic in terms of timing. Wife is working on 4/19 and we'll prob drive to SoCal that day for the kids' spring break the following week.

    The tentative plan is that I fly back on wed 4/23 (while the rest of the family stays in SoCal). Would it be OK to do the sat/sun rides on thurs & fri? I can do the long run on wednesday when I get back and still do fri's swim at noon since the last ride is only 35 miles.
  • @Thai, yes you will have to continue to baby that calf...take your time...fitness is good still, and not doing FTP work only means you aren't doing my workouts, not that you aren't fit. image Patience! When you do get out there, stick to soft / flat surfaces (HS Track?) as much as you can.

    As for the BBW, that's fine! And not doing a FULL WEEK of BBW is also fine...that's a huge load and we have since cut it down to a "camp week" recommendation. So I say you go BBW for the Week of the 14th (4/14 - 4/18), your 4/19 is off for work/travel, then you have 4/20 through 4/22. I would just want some short runs if you can...stay active (lots of walking also ok). Basic target is 30 to 40 mins of aerobic time / day. Then you do Wed long run, Thurs = Sat bike, Fri = Sun bike + Swim, Sat is off again....

    Deal?
  • Hi Coach P,

    Injuries are a thing of the past for the a few months now and have been hitting my run paces very well. Getting super comfortable at z1 to z4 paces.

    A quick questions regarding the Wednesday bike WKOs for the next few weeks. All I see is:

    MS1: 2x 15' (5')

    Is this set done at Z4?
  • Yes it is. Can you tell me what plan you are in and the level? I clearly need to fix those workouts. :-(
  • Hi Coach,

    I'm on the 20 weeks IM Beginner plan.
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