How are we going to hold ourselves accountable for achieving racing weight?
I feel like I've read a lot of race plans and reports that
have some element of "I was trying to get to XXX lb but I didn't make it
there". Tallo and Dinhofer come to mind most immediately because they've posted
about this literally in the last week, but for sure they aren't the only ones…this
is a not-uncommon sentiment amongst our team, including amongst some of the fastest and leanest folks.
The problem I want to talk about here isn't "normal weight
loss". This is about already-lean people who want to get to an aggressive
racing weight and, for the most part, know what to do to get there but just
can't execute.
Personally, this is a problem I'd like to overcome. From
2009-2011 I got from seriously overweight to a pretty lean state. I'm 5'5"
and stable at around 145lb in the "true offseason" when I work out with low volume and watch what I eat. With very little effort my
weight when I'm in the OS will go right into the 137-140 range and be very
stable with consistent workouts and careful diet management. At times it will
dip as low as 135 after a few days in a row of very light eating. At this point
my workouts do not suffer but I am more irritable and hungry. All this causes
me to think I can certainly have a racing weight in the low 130's.
As I get into in-season training my workout volume goes up substantially
and my weight stays stable in the 137-140 range. My bodyfat scale gives me the
same % day in and day out. What's the problem? I eat more.
When I did 18-weeks of run-only marathon training this
summer I honestly thought this could be the breakthrough that would get me to
the low 130's. The calorie burn of running combined with the lack of long rides
that seem to generate massive hunger had me thinking I could finally get to a
new racing weight. It simply did not happen and the Thursday before the race I
was 138 (and I woke up on race morning at 141.5).
Honestly, I think the problem for me – and probably for most
others – is simply a problem with controlling eating. It is about self control and not about
knowledge. I log my calories daily and even after 3 years still carry
around a pocket-sized scale to weigh things I can't estimate. I know the macronutrient
breakdown of most foods by heart. SO WHY DO I HAVE SO MUCH TROUBLE WITH
SELF-CONTROL?? I think there are 4 things going on here:
1. Social eating (esp on the weekends with family, and in work situations)
2. Convincing myself on Friday that I'm "fueling for the weekend's
workouts"
3. Getting irritable and thinking about food all the time
when I restrict calories beyond a certain level
4. A general lack of self-control and willpower
I would love to know from the team your ideas for how we can
better hold ourselves, and potentially each other, accountable for achieving a
new level of racing weight next season. I'm frankly less interested in advice
on what to eat because I think most of us in this situation have a decent
handle on dietary fundamentals (and well beyond the fundamentals).
One thing I may do is go from a once-weekly weigh-in to
daily weight and BF% logging, which is something I got away from over the past
couple of years.
Hopefully we can get some ideas to implement next spring. At
the least, I'll make sure to remember to bump this thread as we get into the
"in-season" next year.
Comments
Second, I think a big factor is age related changes in how efficiently our bodies handle fuel. As we get past about 27-32, we need fewer calories to maintain The same weight at the same activity level. So it's an endless process of responding to that imperative - what worked five years ago no longer does in terms of portion control.
Third, I' d endorse daily morning weigh -in. I have not had the problem you describe ever since I started training religiously as a triathlete. Before that, I was slowly gaining weight from, say, 143 @ 29 to 162 @ 46. Then I biked across the country, slimmed down to 148-ish, and have been there ever since, with 147 being my current preferred training weight and 2 lbs lower for races.
Weighing daily, I can instantly determine just what my calorie load should be for that day, along with fluid needs. I simply do not let myself get above 148. I also make sure my BF% is 5-6 on the Tanita. BF is more an indicator to me of fluid needs. If it goes up, I'm dehydrated, and I work on that for 24 hours.
I know you said, no food suggestions, but I'm big on nuts, peanut butter, and yogurt. Recent study showed that those who had those last two in their diets gained the least weight over time. And, for a sure-fire crash weight loss, nothing beats a week in the ICU.
@Matt - I'm in a very similar situation. I'm 5'8'' and currently about 155. As i go through my peak training and racing periods i'm usually able to get down to 149-150. However, even at that weight i still don't feel like i'm at my peak racing weight. I feel like a better goal racing weight is around 145-146, but try as i might i can't seem to get down to that level. So bottom-line, i get where you are coming from.
If i flash back about 15 years ago my weight peaked at about 195 and i was diagnosed with high cholesterol. Heart disease runs in my family so here i was at 29 getting news that for me was a big time wake up call. That was the catalyst to get me into running and then later biking, plus i had a renewed focus on everything i put into my mouth. By the time i turned 30 i was in the best shape of my life to that point and i dropped my weight all the way down to 138. At that weight, looking back i'm surprised my friends and family didn't do an intervention. I was probably too thin at 138, but there were a few tricks i used to drop that low.
1> Zero bad food in the house - much more difficult now with kids where every time i turn around there are doritos or cheez-its within easy reach.
2> Every meal, every day was planned and i used repeated the formula week after week. For example, lunch every day was a veggie burger and egg whites. Monday dinner was soup and raw veggies, wednesday's dinner was a sweat potato and fat free yogurt. On the weekends i gave myself a bit more leeway, but i was also much more active. Not exactly exciting, but i think there is something to be said for repeating the same thing over and over in that eliminate much of the possibility of making bad decisions.
Now much like you, i feel it does come down to discipline now that the temptation of junk food is always present. I also agree with Al. We are all fighting an uphill battle in that our metabolism slows as we age, therefore what worked a few years ago, may not be enough to keep the weight off or drop the weight. I've tried to add in more strength training but it's hard time wise given the necessary focus on S/B/R.
Thanks for starting this thread. It will be interesting to see how others were able to address this problem as i'm sure this something all of us have or do struggle with.
I reached that 144 by going off "recreational sugar" for about 4 months. I also tried a stint with no-carb and felt great with no negative impact to WKOs til a had major rapid heart beat during a race (200+ for over 1/2 hr) likely or in part due to electrolyte imbalance so I bailed on that.
So in terms of what to do and how, I think your mindset is a huge part. Resisiting sweets for the 4 months actually got pretty easy but I'm having much more difficulty now. Aside from the tempations, getting too hungry makes me feel nauseous and weak so that's a big driver too.
I think Al hit it on the head.... weighing in every day, even when you know it is going to be ugly, helps.
RE: Accountability via EN.... THere used to be a Body Comp Accountability thread complete w spreadsheet tracker pre-website redesign. Perhaps we can kick that back up? I've also been toying with the whole "green drink"/juicer craze that's going on. A friend has been trying to convince me for years. Woudn't hurt in terms of just getting more veggies (for me) as I often joke (although sadly it is true) about getting my "weekly vegetable".
Having a support group here will help too!
I picked up one of the fitbit aria scales. I love the fact that i just step on in the AM, and it automatically logs it. I've been using it since May, and am at the point now where based on the previous days food and exercise, I can pretty much guess what my weight will be in the morning. Seeing that number on a daily basis, and for me having a historical view, is the ultimate in accountability.
Very interesting thread.
You nailed it right here IMO... Its 100% about discipline ....calories in vs. calories ....
So many people are looking for some magic formula of what to eat and when... You can gain weight eating nothing but spinach if you eat enough and you can also lose weight eating nothing but twinkies....
To answer your question.... your close enough to race weight year round and much closer 1 month out.... Put it out there in your plan... hold yourself accountable and make it happen thru discipline during that last month and that way your not too lean for too long.... After paying the money to race , training your body for months and months... The athlete owe's it to themselves to show up @ their desired weight..... In other words suck it up cupcake.....
If it were easy everybody would do it....I like the saying "Today I do what others wont, so that tomorrow I will do what others cant"....
Matt...Don't think this pertains to you but I think the biggest mistake endurance athletes make when trying to "get to race weight" it to lose too much too fast and they usually do this by short changing the calorie intake before during and immediately after wko's and then they overeat binge later because they starved themselves.
In less than 3 years I've shed 40-45lbs off my 6'1" rugby player frame. Body comp has been a complete transformation from a bulky 205 to racing weight of 160 this past season. Not only is it easier to run and bike at that weight, but I feel a lot better as well. At almost 43 yo, I feel in the best shape of my life.
I find that as I get deeper into the season, I'm more conscious of my weight and certainly more in tune with my body. As I get closer to race day, I really keep tabs on what goes in, although I do not weigh food, etc. Those that mentioned common sense...that's been my key. Of course, as we build closer to race day, and the length of training increases, we are burning more calories too. We have all seen first hand how directly after a key race, how our weight increases almost immediately. Sure we all get a bit careless of what we eat at that point - for me, burgers, fries, ice cream, beer. But, think of how many less calories you are burning from what you were a couple of weeks prior.
My metabolism has changed from the increase in exercise, where like others, the weight comes off pretty easily at some point in the season. I was actually worried at one point that I had a medical issue from what I was seeing, and had the doc run some tests. That being said, aside from some basic nutritional knowledge, I fly blind. Certainly, there are better (and worse) things that we should fuel ourselves with while not putting on the lbs. Everyone is different in terms if metabolism, so results certainly vary. I'd be interested in improving body comp by not only how much we are eating, but by what we are eating too!
By Desert Dude strict rules for eating while at the LHPTC. They are as follows:
1. No eating after 7:30 unless coming back from a late evening workout over 30min. If under 30min you may have 1 gel and a piece of fruit or 1 energy bar.
2. Dinner is all you can eat, as long as it fits on the coffee saucer the first time. There are no refills in this all you can eat establishment.
3. Hungry at night? Tough - you should have eaten more throughout the day. Have a glass of water instead of whining. Whiners pay rent irregardless if they trained that day or not.
4. eat something within 20 min of completing all workouts.
5. Insure you are taking in adequate calories during your day
6. Eat a bigger breakfast or lunch if you feel you need more food
7. Make sure you are fueling properly when in your training sessions.
8. Still hungry? Pay rent for whining
Nothing faddish.
I make very simple meals cuz I eat on the go most of the time.
As I put together the pieces of b'fast, early snack, lunch, afternoon snack, dinner, I make an decision that is basically "Is that food/snack a 'Crap In' food?" ''Crap In (diet) = Crap Out(training and overall how I feel)". Or, ''does this particular food have a PURPOSE?".
I've become better at this over the last 5 years, but I've used training as an excuse to eat way too much Crap. Almost one big splurge every day. Do well most of the day, then binge on something, almost daily. Now, I've had enough. I will not try to NEVER have a Pnut M&M, couple of slices of pizza, or a cheeseburger. But, I will reduce this by A TON!
I'm racing oly's next year and I'm 2 years out from my next IM (God willing) so I'm very interested to see how this plays out. I admit that my main motivation is reducing the kg's for cycling and running reasons, but I also want to do it for my overall general state of well being.
Great thread....let's use it for accountability. I haven't checked the nutrition forum, yet, wondering if there's something like it in there.
5'11''
164#
BF ?
It is completely about discipline. In my 9 month detraining I managed to mostly hold weight in the mid 170s, ended up on June 10 at 182. Last year before getting my now incorrect diagnosis, I was at 168 on my way to 162 for IMMT with a goal of 152 for Florida.
I started running again in June and by lake placid I was down to 175, then Teri invited me to Kona. I decided if I was going to kona, I would look like central casting sent me. I got very disciplined very quickly, started increasing my run volume, biking hard, and eating vegan based protein shakes 2x a day (under 200 cals each) Finding out foods that would make you feel full, proportioned packages of nuts from trader joes, etc.
I lost 22 lbs in 10 weeks and went to kona at 152. I came back at 161 and had the ny marathon 3 weeks away, I never got the discipline back and only got down to 156 this week when I should have gotten to a very lean 148 in n those 3 weeks
What did I do to lose the weight?
Self discipline, not having my kids leftovers
Not eating snacks at night.
The biggest factor? Treat your gap between meals like an interval. The last hr of hunger is like working through the end of a long interval push through the hunger, distract ypurself, hydrate, wait, in an hour you will eat, and when you do, eat SLOWLY... If you are going out, I am single and date a fair bit, find restaurants where you can get a good salad with a piece of tuna or salmon on it. I even drank a few beers a week like this, not piss beers either!!
Agree with the daily weigh in and an app to track it.
More as the thread develops
To address one of Tim's points –– I am pretty consistent about fueling workouts, and have been that way since Coach P's post after IMTX last year when he talked about fueling every single workout. Honestly I think it makes a huge difference to the quality of my workouts. I eat before and after every workout, and during workouts longer than an hour. But more to the point of this thread, I think Tim is right that workout fueling curtails post-workout binging. I think allowing yourself to get to the point of massive hunger is a huge problem because our bodies are wired such that making good choices about quality and quantity get exponentially harder as hunger increases.
I agree with all above who have mentioned nuts. Sometimes I worry about the caloric density of nuts but then I think to when someone once told me "find me a fat person who got that way by eating too many almonds".
Chris, I think you have hit a nerve for many people with "I've used training as an excuse to eat way too much Crap". The problem is that if you delete the word "Crap" from that sentence, it is probably still too true…
Scott, love the point on kids' leftovers. How many damn chicken nuggets have I eaten…and they are not worth it for sure!!!
At the end of the day, self-discipline is the main thing, and the point of this post I guess is to understand how we can bolster our self- discipline. The four tactical things I've seen in the posts thus far that we can implement are:
- Daily weigh-in
- Create "rules" (plenty of good and specific ideas above in the various posts)
- Pre-select restaurants where you know menus
- Follow dietary patterns / food selection to help you feel better/fuller (hydrate, fuel around workouts, eat nuts, eat slowly, etc.)
Would love to have more ideas on the list…
This is what I do: http://www.endurancenation.us/blog/training/a-practical-strategy-for-improving-body-composition/
For me, it's simple: if I don't log my diet and exercise, I don't lose weight. When I log, I lose weight, and training during this process allows me to do without being "really" hungry. If I am, I know it's the "good hungry" that I've earned, not the bored, it's in the fridge calling my name hungry.
I'm on LoseIt!, look me up. I've lost 4-5lb since Oct 14th and am wearing my size 32 jeans right now
Random notes:
Awesome thread! Tallo and Dinhofer’s RRs resonated with me as well. I managed to lose 80# en route to my first IM but have been stuck within 5# of that weight for 4+ years with at least 15# to go to my preferred race weight. I echo many of the causes below and have found value in many of the solutions noted. I’d welcome the tracking spreadsheet and complimentary "support group”. I want to come into my 2014 races knowing I haven’t left anything on the table due to simple poundage!
Things I already do:
· Weigh myself daily
· Log everything
· A new one from Coach P that has helped a LOT with the mind game of managing varying workouts with weight loss: Manage my BMR calorie budget for weight loss and fuel workouts per race plan. Meaning keep living (and losing) calories and training calories separate.
· Have a goal. And when in doubt have a pretty graph!
· One veggie based meal and one smoothie each day. Love slipping greens into smoothies like Kim.
Tips from below I like a lot and will be implementing:
· Treating the gap between meals as an interval.
· It’s okay to go to bed a bit hungry. Really, I’m not starving though my Italian mother may disagree.
· Join the tracker if we get it up.
· Pay rent for whining.
Thanks to all for your candor!
I think Rich's point about a daily calorie budget is important. The calorie budget is not weekly and you can't "bank up for the weekend splurge".
The one thing that makes the biggest difference for me - and maybe this sounds a little nuts - is getting myself to the position where feeling just a little hungry is ok/normal, as opposed to wanting to constantly feel sated. This takes a mental effort over a period of weeks and I usually (unfortunately) lapse back at some point, perhaps at the end of a season. Before I saw this thread, I had already started thinking about this issue for myself again. I keep remembering advice you read elsewhere about eating until satisfied, not eating until full.
One of my downfalls is feeling terribly hungry on - of all things - light/rest days. I tend to binge then. Wish I understood that and dealt with it better.
And now I have two teenagers in the house, who are swimming 12 hours a week or something...so it's I who am the slacker who overeats, compared to them. (Can I have my daughter's abs? Please?)
I plan to experiment more with fueling more during workouts this season; I hope I have the positive results you guys comment on rather than the backfire of doing that and still getting cravings.
guessing the answer is TP and may have to finally succumb to that!
I log my diet and cals burned in LoseIt! Cals are per my Garmin 305 for the run, 500 for the bike.
I upload all of my stuff in Strava and informally track my performance on segments I've created / are out there for the courses I do. I'm not training "for" anything just yet but when I do flip that switch I'll probably dump all of my stuff into WKO or something similar.
This thread is awesome but its almost 3 threads in 1.... The mental aspect which could be grouped into training execution I'll call the 5th discipline..... The nutrition aspect of what when how much before during after training racing the 4th discipline .... And then your original question of how to hold yourself accountable....
I like your list of Ideas.... #1 Has to be the Goal this can be a race or a weight date etc but it something to work towards.... #2 Should be the rules to follow like , no second helpings, no food after 7pm, etc. #3 daily weigh in #4 logging if so inclined , for me I eat by RPE I have an idea of how many calories are in everything I know how much is too much and I think most people do as well...
So My idea to add to the list.
How about adding some motivational quotes posted at the pantry and fridge for those much needed times in that last month .....Couple ideas below..
To plagiarize something from ST " Nothing taste as good as skinny feels"
A chart with the estimated cost in time per lb for each race distance...... 5lbs is = approximately 10-15min over the IM bike/run
The closer I get to a race the easier I find it to become disciplined in my nutrition. I get so focussed on the outcome of the goal and keep telling myself I worked so hard to get here don't blow it now... The leaner I get the more in tune I feel with my body... It starts to feel like an engine , I can tell when I'm starting to run on empty and I'll push it just a little further to feel some hunger and then fuel up but gotta be careful cause its easy to run out.
I think the thing of most importance here is knowing what you are eating. Many restaurants where I live have their calories on the menu, it is really a great device, but having an idea of what is going in is very important. Being able to go to a restaurant and have them just grill fish for you with no salt or butter and getting steamed veggies or veggies sautéed in olive oil, is a great way to go. I ate a lot of salads with grilled salmon this summer.
On Tim's suggestion, I bought a veggie burger cook book and now make them by the batch and freeze em. Now I typically have 2-4 types of veggie burgers on hand and ready to go. Part of this os learning how to eat enjoyable foods that are also low calorie and full of nutrients and how to have them handy. On that first visit, we did a 5 am swim on the lake, came inside and Tim laid out some awesome bean burgers that worked for a great breakfast between an open water swim and a 60ish mile bike.
As someone I know who had lost 80 lbs told me: "you have to change your relationship w food.
I am willing to bet the 10lb swing between my post kona a bounce and my targeted NY Mary weight, may have beetle difference in not BQing.
@ rich, how do you log food and cals in wko?
I'll throw in $0.02 to the "how to log" battle. There was actually a story in the times the other day about health/fitness data logging, and how it's a wide open battlefield, waiting for somebody to win it.
I've always been a computer/data junkie. I've got a fitbit (primarily purchased for tracking sleep) and a number of garmin devices. I'd really let myself go leading up to, and after placid, but recently jumped back on the health/fitness wagon. I've already dropped ~20 pounds in the past two months (215->195), but am now at the point where the pounds don't come as easily, so i've recently started logging food as well.
I actually have a semi-complete picture, with data being shown in both places
1) Garmin activities automatically syncing to fitbit using http://www.fitdatasync.com/
2) LoseIt Premium, which syncs my fitbit one (sleep/steps) and my fitbit aria scale (weight) automatically, as well as push data sync for food logging back to Fitbit http://loseit.com/
As an FYI, if you have an AT&T phone that has a discount associated with it (even a work discount), they sell the fitbit devices, and they are considered "accesories", and you can use your discount on them. This is especially nice if you or someone you love works for USPS, as they get a 50% discount on all accesories. Additionally, you can purchase a bluetooth enabled scale from loseit. if you get The $40/year loseit premium, i think they sell the scale to you for $50.
I've been pretty solid with the mindful/disciplined eating for the last 5 weeks. Not perfect, but better at holding back portions and not eating late. But, on Wednesday's 6:30pm run, I pulled up lame halfway thru the run with a supertight achilles/calf that's been a nemesis of mine every OS. After I hobbled home, I accepted that I was PO'd and ate everything in sight. Chips/salsa, ice cream, leftover chicken tenders. All because I was angry.
So, gave in for one evening and by the morning after I was back in focus. That's the silver lining. Expect that there will be these kind of lapses. It's the bouncing back that will pay off in the long run.
@Chris - for me, it's the Frustration of the injury that overpowers the discipline. Then the anger about the lack of discipline, which is more Frustrating. A vicious cycle that is best stopped early.