FTP Test - Why not uphill?
I it's best to do the test on a level course - but why? I did a long cllimb yesterday (40 minutes all uphill), and my power was roughtly 20 watts higher than what I did in my test. Why wouldn't I use that as my FTP?
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I it's best to do the test on a level course - but why? I did a long cllimb yesterday (40 minutes all uphill), and my power was roughtly 20 watts higher than what I did in my test. Why wouldn't I use that as my FTP?
Comments
I have often used my climbing watts as FT. Works for me. When I have had a major bump in a 42' hill climb, I have always been able to hold the increase on my regular riding routes.
I know we have had discussions about this before, but I can't remember why you would hesitate to test on a hill. If I'm not mistaken, our big, bad cop Rich does.
No
, but I've always had success using a hill climb, and been able to carry the watts in training. Re-testing on a route without too many variables (red lights. traffic, and the like) the watts come out the same on a full-out FT test. I've done this for three years now doing the Cadillac hill climb in Maine, and re-testing on roads in Concord, MA. My reality has been that the watts in the test are w/in3-5 either way.
I did a hill climb in CA last year sucking on P's wheel the whole way. It took 47'. After I dowloaded the data and told RnP the norm power, Rich replied, 'that's your new FTP'. I used it for a while until I did another test at home.
I think the best way to figure out if an uphill FTP works for you is if you can hold the %'s of the FTP in training. IOW, if you get a 300 FTP doing an uphill test, can you hold 95 - 100% of that number doing FT repeats, or 85% when called for?
Dave
Bob,
I don't have the opportunity to climb for 20' where I am from so I don't have any experience with hill climb power. The only thing I would add to this discussion is to remember that the 2X20 has a 2' break on the flat course to balance the estimation of your 60' power output.
If you take 40' on a hill I would assume that you are over estimating your FTP as the test is supposed to be power over 60'. Now I can't say for sure how much an indivudual will slow down going up hill for 40' versus a 2X20' with 2'. Perhaps the 40' on hills effictively duplicate the flat course estimate as Linda has mentioned it works for her.
In the end like Dave stated if you can hold 95-100% on long intervals in training then that's your new FTP end of story. If not bump it back and you now have a n=1 to show that hills over 40' overestimates your FTP. I'd definitely keep an eye on that number as you get more of those 40' FTP effort level climbs.
Gordon
FTP can vary significantly, given variables of position on the bike (in aerobars vs hoods/climbing), cadence, motivation, and climbing. Most people find it "easier" to put out higher watts on a climb. This is a combination of position on the bike (sitting up in the bars and back in the saddle is generally more powerful), cadence (you'll likely be at a lower cadence climbing vs flats) and motivation (just easier to push yourself harder on a climb).
For this reason you need to apply some commonsense. Yes, 90% of my hard rides, the ones I use to assess FTP, are climbs, cuz I have lots of them and I can drill myself up a hill. But if I needed to apply that FTP to a triathlon pacing strategy, I'd apply a discount that I just know from experience. I'd also be locked into the aerobars for months before the race and would be sure to get in lots of hard, flat rides from which to extract FTP.
For training purposes I think it's fine to test on a climb, if that's what makes it mentally easier for you, and then maybe knock of 5-10w as a climbing discount.
Think this makes lots of sense. Since moving from the flatland of CDA to the hills of Santa Monica Mountains I am unable to find a good flat spot to test FTP. Did a 37' climb on Saturday at close to 300 then did it again at 38' at 272 or so. My last tested FTP trying to find flat ground and going 20-2-20 was 254. Using the hill FTP and dropping 10 watts about gets it there!
Rich - thanks, that makes a lot of sense. I've only had my power meter a couple of weeks, and I'm really just starting to find out what hard really is. I'm also figuring out that I often times slack off during my rides - riding steady is harder than I thought. I've also got a new bike, and my positiion is not all that comfortable yet - need to get it locked in. I'll go with the hill climb less 5-10 watts for now.