@ john ... I f you have the 2nd edition of Allen & Coggin's Power Meter book, go to page 120, where the formula for NP is explained. Basically, it uses a 30 second rolling average for the power. Meaning that the first 30 seconds of any interval will include data from the previous interaval, which, if it was @ lower power, will lower the NP. The AP, of course, is much more instantaneous, and so for short intervals, you *can* get an NP below the AP if you have been pedaling (as you do on a trainer) at a constant effort level.
I'm guessing this is the reason Training peaks software doesn't even calculate an NP for intervals less than 5 minutes. PowerAgent (PowerTap) doesn't show it for less than 60s, and the Joule doesn't show the NP/IF for the first 30 seconds of any interval.
Hate to disagree with Al above, but I use TP online and have used WKO+ software and both show NP for intervals as short as 30 seconds. So did my Joule. Not sure about PowerAgent. I believe the correct statement is that TP doesn't calculate NP during the first 5 minutes of any session (ie the start to 5 minutes into the ride).
I personally like this article by Coggan that talks about NP, IF and TSS. Sentence 2 talks about the 30 second intervals. For you new folks, TSS will be very important when you transition to IM training. Great indicator of your actual training stress so you don't overtrain.
Hope everyone is crushing the rest day! I am working on my SAU account. Been doing housework all morning. Also, just booked an hour and a half tennis time for my wife and I. Not really rest, but SAU's will definitely increase!
<p>Hate to disagree with Al above, but I use TP online and have used WKO+ software and both show NP for intervals as short as 30 seconds. So did my Joule. Not sure about PowerAgent...
Yeah, maybe I was confusing WKO with PowerAgent. I'm away from my computers @IM AZ so I cant check to be sure. I DO Know the Joule starts showing IF & NP after 30 secs. Hope I can remember to double check this when I get back ... @ my age, I'm always on the lookout for for subtle signs of Old Timer's Disease. Or is that Altbeyer's?
@ Joe- trust me, I understand what you're talking about there.
And, I have every intention on subbing in some VO2 intervals after the FTP work and before the Sweet Spot work during Saturdays workout to make myself feel better about coming up lame on Thursday night. Not many, maybe 5, but enough to add to the VO2 work for the week.
NOTE: if anyone can get away with 'overachieving' like I'm describing, it's me since my rTSS is so low (practically nonexistent) due to injury.
Hate to disagree with Al above, but I use TP online and have used WKO+ software and both show NP for intervals as short as 30 seconds. So did my Joule. Not sure about PowerAgent...
Yeah, maybe I was confusing WKO with PowerAgent. I'm away from my computers @IM AZ so I cant check to be sure. I DO Know the Joule starts showing IF & NP after 30 secs. Hope I can remember to double check this when I get back ... @ my age, I'm always on the lookout for for subtle signs of Old Timer's Disease. Or is that Altbeyer's?
No worries, Al! I think the point has been made.
Have a GREAT race in Tempe. And hi to your lovely wife for me.
Hit all targets on the bike 2 x 10' @ z4 (219 np) 2 x 15' @z3 (180 np) Total time 1:22 @ 190 np
Followed it up with a hellish and hilly 5 mile run z2 out (7.24 pace) and z3 back (7.05 pace). Struggled in the last mile to hold pace and it tailed off to z2 Total time 38'
Fun version : Rode the first three mountain stages of Sufferfest''s ISLAGIATT. Listened to my coach and cut the first two stages short at ten minutes each, but got tired of the Garmin riders making fun of me, so I decided to contest the 20 minute stage up the volcano (at a slightly reduced intensity than Gunther would have liked). Had a good time and now resting the legs for today's run and my relay leg of tomorrow's EN Marathon Challenge.
Happy Saturday everyone and good luck with your weekend workouts!
Morning all, I got up before I had to go to work today and got my bike work in. Did the two Z4 sets, the first one was spot on (1.0), the second was a bit hot (1.08) but not too bad. I hit the two z3 sets and added a few extra minutes in Z3 since I won't do the run as part of the run hack/focus. It felt pretty good today, still need more rest. Good luck all!
So - I am hooked on power. I like the numbers and analysis and so rather than ride outside (tri-bike is not set up with power yet), I choose to be in my pain cave and watch all the new power numbers. Today is probably the limit as a 1:21 workout.
2 X 12'(3') at Z4 = (IF/pwr) 1.01/282, 1.03/288 and then 2 X 15'(2') at Z3 = .87/244, .89/248
I made it a point to keep the last sets close to .85 to see how it affects my running tomorrow.
@Al Truscott - wish you well in your IMAZ tomorrow. I certainly enjoy your posts and was wondering where you were! Looking forward to reading your race report!
Wow..that was harder than I expected. I was so pumped with Thurs ride that I went into the ride with high confidence, but sure enough the Sat Bike did me in.
IF
MS1: 1.01 and 0.97
MS2: 0.85 and 0.83
I was happy that my total ride NP was up 8 to 214 (FTP 252) over last weeks same ride - so I will run with that as the good news
The bike and the run are in the books. The first couple of weekend rides felt somewhat easy but the fatigue is beginning to make itself known! Here's the numbers
MS 1
Z4 - 1. NP 211/IF 1.00/VI 1.00,
2. NP 2212/IF 1.005/VI I.00.
MS 2,
Z3 - 1. NP 178/IF 0.85/VI 1.01
2. NP 178/IF 0.85/VI 1.00
Followed immediately by the run which I nailed and will post details on the appropriate thread.
Good work everyone. You're numbers are looking good.
Beautful day here in the Northeast so I had to take advantage so no official EN WKO. Did a 45 mi group ride. Bad idea.... My last outdoor ride was 20 miles about a month ago. And my longest ride since last Nov. prior to today was about 30 miles sooooo, it was less fun than I would have hoped. Took about 3:17 with some stops. No power on my road bike. Also, I didn't have as much nutrition as I should have and was sttarrrrving by the end of the ride. It was nice to get out but man, I think 45 mi was a little overambitious for me at this point of my training. But as they say, what doesn't kill U makes U stronger. Then I had to boogie home and cook and clean for my Ironman party. We had about 14 people over to watch and I made honey pineapple chix. It came out great but man I'm stuffed!
Not sure how tomorrow's run is going to go after today's ride....
Unseasonally warm up here in Ottawa today, so was able to escape from the pain cave and ride outside! Very unusual being able to ride outside so late in the season up here. Amazing.
I sure missed having TrainerRoad Virtual Power numbers to look at though. Managed to get my HR up into the prescribed zones, but I'll never know how much "work" I actually did.
Couldn't help but notice the difference between trainer vs outdoor riding. Outdoor riding there are so many "mini" rest intervals that you don't get indoors: red lights, coasting while cornering, slowing to overtake other cyclists, etc.
@ Brent, I couldn't agree more about the difference between indoors on a trainer and outdoors on the road. I often do my short interval rides on a trainer even in the summer for that reason. It's so much easier to nail them that way, not as much fun, but definitely more efficient.
Great interval set yesterday. Hit or exceeded all my #s with relative ease and all in aero position -- Netflix (Olympus Has Fallen helped too!). I think my test was artificially low due to preOS inactivity and I'm considering throwing in a bike test next week to (hopefully) raise my FTP. On to week 4!
Comments
Hate to disagree with Al above, but I use TP online and have used WKO+ software and both show NP for intervals as short as 30 seconds. So did my Joule. Not sure about PowerAgent. I believe the correct statement is that TP doesn't calculate NP during the first 5 minutes of any session (ie the start to 5 minutes into the ride).
I personally like this article by Coggan that talks about NP, IF and TSS. Sentence 2 talks about the 30 second intervals. For you new folks, TSS will be very important when you transition to IM training. Great indicator of your actual training stress so you don't overtrain.
http://home.trainingpeaks.com/artic...score.aspx
Peace out.
Steve, i don't know what all that means yet, but it looks impressive!. Bob
Hope everyone is crushing the rest day! I am working on my SAU account. Been doing housework all morning. Also, just booked an hour and a half tennis time for my wife and I. Not really rest, but SAU's will definitely increase!
Chris - busted. That is probably why my running is so bad, I'm always over-achieving on the bike!
And, I have every intention on subbing in some VO2 intervals after the FTP work and before the Sweet Spot work during Saturdays workout to make myself feel better about coming up lame on Thursday night. Not many, maybe 5, but enough to add to the VO2 work for the week.
NOTE: if anyone can get away with 'overachieving' like I'm describing, it's me since my rTSS is so low (practically nonexistent) due to injury.
No worries, Al! I think the point has been made.
Have a GREAT race in Tempe. And hi to your lovely wife for me.
Hit all targets on the bike 2 x 10' @ z4 (219 np) 2 x 15' @z3 (180 np)
Total time 1:22 @ 190 np
Followed it up with a hellish and hilly 5 mile run z2 out (7.24 pace) and z3 back (7.05 pace). Struggled in the last mile to hold pace and it tailed off to z2
Total time 38'
Happy that's in the books! Go get em gang!
3' recover
10x (30''on/30''off) @ 1.15-1.2, a bit of redemption for Thursday's heavy legs after work
then 20' @ .83
Pretty good 1hr 15min.
now, off to work, and hope to slip in some swim drills + pool running later today.
Happy Weekend to all. If you're a fan of NBC's coverage of Kona, don't forget that it comes on today at 4:30 in most places.
Fun version : Rode the first three mountain stages of Sufferfest''s ISLAGIATT. Listened to my coach and cut the first two stages short at ten minutes each, but got tired of the Garmin riders making fun of me, so I decided to contest the 20 minute stage up the volcano (at a slightly reduced intensity than Gunther would have liked). Had a good time and now resting the legs for today's run and my relay leg of tomorrow's EN Marathon Challenge.
Happy Saturday everyone and good luck with your weekend workouts!
I got up before I had to go to work today and got my bike work in. Did the two Z4 sets, the first one was spot on (1.0), the second was a bit hot (1.08) but not too bad. I hit the two z3 sets and added a few extra minutes in Z3 since I won't do the run as part of the run hack/focus. It felt pretty good today, still need more rest. Good luck all!
I DO NOT WANT TO RIDE THIS MORNING!
That is all. Thanks for listening.
2 X 12'(3') at Z4 = (IF/pwr) 1.01/282, 1.03/288 and then 2 X 15'(2') at Z3 = .87/244, .89/248
I made it a point to keep the last sets close to .85 to see how it affects my running tomorrow.
@Al Truscott - wish you well in your IMAZ tomorrow. I certainly enjoy your posts and was wondering where you were! Looking forward to reading your race report!
Wow..that was harder than I expected. I was so pumped with Thurs ride that I went into the ride with high confidence, but sure enough the Sat Bike did me in.
IF
MS1: 1.01 and 0.97
MS2: 0.85 and 0.83
I was happy that my total ride NP was up 8 to 214 (FTP 252) over last weeks same ride - so I will run with that as the good news
10' Interval 1 - 1.015
10' Interval 2 - 1.035
15' Interval 3 - .87
15' Interval 4 - .88
No run today as I as I am doing the run hack, I have, however, run the last 6 days in a row. At least 30' each run. Knee is doing great.
@joe - welcome to the world of the electronic whip.
Better than expected.
2 x 10' both at 1.02
2 x 15's both at .87
I am so happy with the consistency.
Not too easy. Not too hard. But jussst right! Good ride today: 2x 10 at IF 1.04 +1.05 and 2 x 15 at IF .89 and .9.
Now, off to build the rink in my backyard....
MS1 10' / 2.67 mi / 4' recovery / 2.59 mi
MS2 12' / 3.31 min / 2' recovery / 3.04 mi
Not sure why it took me so long to have the genius idea of resetting the monitor after each set.
I passed on the run.
I took my girls to a swim clinic with Olympian Chloe Sutton and World Champion OWS Ashley Twitchell!
Hey Gang,
The bike and the run are in the books. The first couple of weekend rides felt somewhat easy but the fatigue is beginning to make itself known! Here's the numbers
MS 1
Z4 - 1. NP 211/IF 1.00/VI 1.00,
2. NP 2212/IF 1.005/VI I.00.
MS 2,
Z3 - 1. NP 178/IF 0.85/VI 1.01
2. NP 178/IF 0.85/VI 1.00
Followed immediately by the run which I nailed and will post details on the appropriate thread.
Good work everyone. You're numbers are looking good.
Not sure how tomorrow's run is going to go after today's ride....
I sure missed having TrainerRoad Virtual Power numbers to look at though. Managed to get my HR up into the prescribed zones, but I'll never know how much "work" I actually did.
Couldn't help but notice the difference between trainer vs outdoor riding. Outdoor riding there are so many "mini" rest intervals that you don't get indoors: red lights, coasting while cornering, slowing to overtake other cyclists, etc.
If you wait another 39 minutes, then it will be afternoon and you'll be all set.
MS 1: 1.07 (209W) & 1.06 (208W)
MS 2: 0.92 (180W) & 0.91 (178W)
1hr 15min total session for 102 TSS
Felt good! felt the "overachievent" later on the run although I hit all intervals there too
Great work all