confused about calories per hour??
When did the recommended cal/hr. change in the haus, and what caused that change? Currently ("2013 edition" in wiki) it's the wt. in lbsX.625X4 for the bike, but listening to to a talk by RnP in another part of the wiki they are VERY adamant about only taking in around 250 cal/hr. on bike.
I ask because the above formula puts me at about 440/hr., which is what I did at IMFL, and had BAD gut cramping the entire run (did NOT overpace the bike BTW, IF was .69). I addressed this in "kind of pissed" thread, and the general consensus was that I took in undiluted (wrong osmolarity in gut) gels, which I think was definitely part of the problem. But now I'm wondering if maybe I just simply took in TOO many calories also??
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Gents,
Please post links here to what exactly you're finding where, etc, so we can track it down.
This summer we wrote/updated/consolidated our Ironman Execution Guidance here. <<This is the latest, most accurate guidance, and that's why it was explicitly included in the footer of email you received from Brenda this summer when she communicated with you about your races. </p>
@Rich..the webinar "concentrated nutrition option" in the nutrition section of the wiki is where you guys are very adamant about the 250/hr and is in conflict with the more updated info. you refer to. To be honest, I'm listening to my body and going with the less calories no matter what the new info. says, based on my experience in IMFL. In the earlier, webinar I'm referring to you state how you've rarely seen a true case of bonking at an IM, but routinely see gut problems due to TOO much calorie intake. Also you mention that a too little calorie/bonk can relatively quickly overcome, but a too much calorie/gut issue can finish you......I CAN RELATE!! Don't get me wrong, I'm loving the EN experience.....had an over 30 min. PR at a HIM this year....just trying to learn and grow generally, and specifically when and why the recommended cal/hr. advice changed given my experience.
@ Brenda....used same nutrition approach that I started in Nov. OS, used all through year including HIM and the two RR's for the IM plan. This is a separate issue than addressed in this thread, and the explanation given by coach P himself is simply...what works in training sometimes simply doesn't work on race day. That's kind of a hard pill to swallow, given that we do RR's specifically to avoid such issues, and that you spend a year to train for the IM, but it is what it is. I simply want to move onward and upward, and to that effect curious about how the change in cal/hr. advice came about, since it definitely seems that the less per hour route is the way for me.
The idea of the "Race Day Regular" vs "Concentrated" nutrition is to give people information whichever on they choose as a fueling strategy -- more concentrated calories means that you need to cut back to be able to process them (aka consume less).
So I simply was looking for answer to two questions: first and foremost, do you think too many calories could have been a factor? Of lesser importance (just simply curious), when did the shift go to recommending higher cal. intake?
Reading between the lines, I guess "a formula is just a starting point", could be taken as,"yea, do LESS calories". I was just hoping for a more definitive, "yea, that COULD have been part of the problem", especially given the opinion expressed in the "concentrated nutrition option" webinar.
Last thing.....and I guess I'm looking for a little assurance here.... If I didn't have ANY hint of gut cramping in either RR ( and I DID execute the same on race day BTW), how will I know at IMFL 2014 that the nutrition plan will work. That's where the "kind of pissed" was coming from, ie.... What good is the RR if out of the blue you can have that happen while following things exactly as in the RR? That's why I was actually GLAD to hear the info. on less cal/hr. Intake in the webinar. Because it made so much sense, it gave me some measure of assurance that I wouldn't have the same thing happen again next year by adhering to it. But then it just naturally raised the question of why the shift in thought towards higher cal/ hr.
I promise I'm NOT trying to be a pain, just trying to work it all out as quickly as possible. Appreciate all your help
Too many calories could have been a factor? YES .... It could have been ... but then again it might not have been..Nobody can answer that.. but you need to consider it...
When did the recommendation change? Not sure of the date but I believe it is when EN endorsed the Core Diet principles..... the formula is from Core Diet... good starting point
There is no definitive answer on calories, sodium, or fluid intake..... Its highly individual and needs to be practiced.... Be aware of trends/fads just like anything... A few years ago it was a fairly common belief that less calories , more water , and all liquid dinner , breakfast , and race day food was the norm..... Now its almost he opposite with everyone going towards more calories, no water all sports drink , and back to solid foods..... Just like all pendulum theories its probably somewhere in the middle.... I tried all those trends , drank too much water and pissed all day , went with too few calories and bonked , went with all liquid and felt starving.... Didn't take me long to narrow it down, for me I'm all sports drink but only 15-25oz per hour much less than most people, roughly 250-300 calories per hour which is 2-2.5 calories per pound for me and probably at the high end , and I like solid food....I'm also way down low on the sodium scale...
Which brings us to the RR question.... Its different on race day because IMO There is absolutely no way you can replicate race day unless you run the full marathon and that is just not good advice.....Think about it, almost everybody runs fine for the first hour and they usually report nutritional issues later on in the run.....So Gotta make do with the race rehearsal as is... If you haven't done a race rehearsal with the swim , you can always at least add that... Full swim, full bike, 1 hour run.... That swim takes a lot more out of you than you think it does and also starts the nutrition early.... it changes everything....
The recommendations are just that... Good places to start.... I for one will NOT do the applesauce breakfast nor will I wake up in the middle of the night to feed....
It was nice meeting you and Heather at the 4 keys talk, and BIG congrats on your day at IMFL...simply awesome. You gave me a little tap on the back at what was for you near the finish of the race, shortly before RSN for me
FWIW, my gut felt a little funny toward end of bike (like it was feeling gross to take in the fluids), and started cramping in earnest by mile one of run. Didn't have any hint of that in either RR....which were both 6 mile runs.
Anyway, live and learn. Goal is to return to IMFL leaner, faster, and SMARTER next year, and actually be able to ride my fitness vehicle to it's potential