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Week of December 2 Pre OS

Starting things off... after a longer run yesterday, I swam today.

Today, the stroke didn't feel right, and that was reflected in pretty slow swimming.  Pretty dismal times, but I was glad to get the work in.  A couple of decent 50s at the end.  Garmin still doesn't know when you're kicking/sculling/etc., so it only logged 1750 yards, and it was more like 2500 total.  http://connect.garmin.com/activity/411510806

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  • First workout of my Pre-OS and it was windier and colder than I thought.  20 minutes running that's it.  I should have used a treadmill as the ice and drifts were an issue.

     

  • Looks like Al started this week's thread first and this one is an extra. But since this one got a reply already I'll pile on...sorry Al, in fact this was William ignoring you!!



    My week at work will be very rough with lots of travel starting tomorrow and doubtful I'll be able to get in a workout until Friday evening or Saturday. So I did both a ride and a run today. I ran this morning/mid-day, first time since Friday. I went out planning a 45' run where I'd do the middle 25' @MP targeting 6:45 (structured as equal halves with a 1' recovery starting 30" before the turnaround), but after the first MP segment I was feeling pretty bad so I dialed it back. I finished with 46' @6:59 average pace. Then I decided to ride tonight, about 4 hours after the run. Since I rode last night doing FTP intervals, I did tonight as an ABP ride targeting 45' of z3 time after 15' warmup. My did joined and we watched the MNF pregame and most of the first quarter of the game. We planned on structuring the time as 3x15'(2'), maybey cutting the last interval to 10' given we'd be over 60' given 6' of recoveries. With a few mins left in the first 15' I suggested we "buy down" the length of our third interval by extending to 22.5'. So we did that, then bought down the entire third interval by also extending the second to 22.5'. It ended up being a great ride and a harder effort than I planned. Including the warmup the ride IF was 0.892 for a ride of 1:03. The 2x 22.5'(2') "z3" intervals were 0.927 and 0.937 and the last 5' was 0.972 (the last 10' was 0.950). So a good workout!



    Run: http://connect.garmin.com/activity/411619650

    Ride: http://connect.garmin.com/activity/411619539
  • Sorry for stepping on toes...I just missed it!
  • Computers are great (I spent more than half my life without 'em, life is so much easier now) - less than 30 secs to copy and paste:

    After two weeks of indolence, sloth and dedicated eating, I managed to gain a pound over what I weighed race day IM AZ. So I guess it's time to start up structured workouts again. I don't do well without structure. In those two weeks I did manage to get to the weight room 4 times, swim twice, run 4 times and hit the trainer twice.

    I'll be doing weeks 2-6 of the Int Getting Faster plan before the OS. Also, I'm going to experiment with starting my week on Sunday instead of Monday. I'll be retiring Mid-Jan, so I can really adopt any schedule I like. My wife and I have been going swimming on Sundays for years, and swimming is usually on Monday, so it just seems to fit better.

    BUT - the pool is down for its annual week of draining and cleaning, so no swim yesterday. That makes today weights, run with hill bounds, and 60 min on the trainer.

    Interesting thing about getting back to the weight room. For the first time in decades, I pretty much abandoned the weight room over the past 6-9 months, relying on sport-specific strength, stretching, and the "Seven Minute Workout" to keep my tone. I was apprehensive about starting back up, that I might have lost considerable strength and would need weeks/months to get back to where I had been. I've got a lot of experience at starting weight training after time off (it's an OS ritual to re-start weights after 2-3 weeks off) I usually do one/third of my previous # of reps, at reduced weight. This year I started @ 2/3rds, at the same weight for many exercises, and about 10-20% below for others. Apart from some DOMS the day after the first workout, I am, after only 5 sessions, back to my previous amount of time working out, and able to handle MORE weight with my legs than I normally would at this stage. My upper limb flexers (lats, biceps) strength is a bit reduced, but my upper limb extenders (triceps, bench press/ pecs) are the same as before.

    Another interesting tidbit concerning IM recovery... I had a couple of MD appointments in the week after the race. My HR was up about 20% (in the 50s, not 40s), and my BP was substantially up (140s/70s vs normal 118/68 or so). So I researched Systolic BP after endurance activities, and there is some evidence that it is raised, although young, fit athletes will see it go back to normal within a very short time. Lesson: dont get a physical right after an IM! My BP 8 days after the IM was 135/72, and 12 days after was back to 118/65.

    It does take a while for the body to get back to a stable state, far beyond what we notice going on in our muscles and tendons, which usually only hurt me for 2-3 days

     

  • @ WJ .....ok I'll bite....I'm just getting off the couch after IMFL last month....last week 3 runs including a 5k Turkey trot....this week goal = 3 runs & 2 bikes & Dec core challenge.....probably not much intensity just getting the body moving...Z1/Z2 stuff....next week maybe ramp up some intensity
  • I am still 'mostly' following the Balanced 1/2-marathon plan. Yesterday was supposed to be a rest day, but I had to get out of the office so I figured a short run-- 30min -- would do me well. 30min@Z1. Felt good and light on my feet....tried to concentrate on form like Dave T. exonerated us to yesterday.
  • After a disastrous showing at my fall marathon I have moved on. It has been two weeks of biking every other day and doing the core challenge along with fooling around with a new pull up bar I put in my garage.


    I'd like to be able to do 10 sets of 10 pull ups x 10 sets of 25 push ups and 10 sets of 25 crunches with different core work thrown in as a rest period. As the OS takes up my time perhaps I may back off the goal as I only have so much time. I will see.
  • 1 month since IMFL and 2 weeks before I start OS.... FTP test.... Went with the TR version of 20 minute test... I struggle with the 20 min test and have yet to do one well... This was no exception... Always test better with the 2 x 20 test.... However this year's OS I'm going to work on my weakness and that is V02 relative to my FTP... In an attempt to lift my FTP from the top this year I plan lots of 105-120% work.... IN that theme/theory I will stick to the 20 minute tests!

    http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/519592-20-Minute-Test
  • I'm in wk 3 of BF, then supposed to to GF plan, prepping for IMTX.  Went for my 2hr ride on Saturday, in perfect weather.  Switched the PT to the road bike so I could see my power numbers.  Had an incredible ride, with confusing (in a good way I think) results.  When I started the BF plan 2 wks ago I tested by 5/20 on TT bike in aero position for the FTP portion, with FTP of 188.  Prior to my last race of 2013 (Austin HIM Oct 27) my FTP was 212.  But, this was outdoor 2 x 20 test on TT bike in aero whole time.  I am usually 10-20 watts lower for FTP tests on trainer.  But, on my ride Saturday, I was able to put up a 194NP for the whole 2.5hr ride!?  I was pushing the whole time, but not going 100% the whole time. My best 20min NP was 205.  

    I attribute this to two things:  1) I definitely have a different FTP outside vs. on trainer.  2)  I definitely can generate better efforts when climbing is involved.  This outdoor ride had 2500ft of climbing, and my best 20min was during climbing portions.  

    I think my trainer FTP is too low though....ie...I can do better than 188 can't I?  Looking for suggestions for how to test better on trainer, I guess?  This is what I'm doing already:  1)  aero for whole FTP test segment  2)  ceiling fan and blower fan in my face  3)  prehydrating with Perform, fueling with powergel before warmup  4) varying cadence a little (upper 80's for some of it, upper 90's for some of it...never seems to be in my "sweet spot" of 94rpms!).  

    Should I allow myself to sit up during FTP tests indoors (and then during FTP segments of workouts)?  Other suggestions?  

  • @Jeff, yes don't worry about aero for trainer rides unless you are in prep for an IM. You will get more power from being upright and on the hoods both on the road and on the trainer. My experience is also that a hilly road ride will generate more watts on avg than a similar perceived effort on the trainer, I think its mental, its just easier to keep consistent power output climbing. Like you I've always found my trainer tests to be ~10watts lower than what I can output on the road regardless of position or bike type. 

    Okay after 2 weeks of blissful gluttony and sloth, I'm off the couch and doing run focus until the start of the OS. Yesterday was a smooth z1+ 30min run, to break myself in as my first run since IMAZ. Legs have some stiffness still in the calves I need to get worked out, but otherwise all systems were normal. I'll be doing 3x1mi sets today, so it'll be interesting to see where my fitness is compared to where it was ~3 weeks ago when I did the last z4 run. 

  • @Jeff L.... IMO a FTP test or interval in the OS is about hitting your numbers by any means possible , it aint supposed to be pretty... This means what ever position , cadence , etc works the best for you.... For the most part I'm aero at .90 and below and sitting when .95 and above.... During the season there is plenty of time to dial in the aero position and longer power numbers....

  • Posted By Jeff Leslie on 03 Dec 2013 09:33 AM

    ... Went for my 2hr ride on Saturday, in perfect weather.  Switched the PT to the road bike so I could see my power numbers.  Had an incredible ride, with confusing (in a good way I think) results.  ..

    This is another factor, in addition to the inside vs outside, aero vs upright, climbing vs flat issues already identified. There's no question that it's possible to generate higher power #s on a road bike compared to a TT bike, due to the position(s) you are able to adopt. Counter-intuitive, as TT bike will be faster? No, aero advantage in TT position trumps the positonal advantage road bike gives you to generate more power.

    So, to really be fair to your training, you need:

    • an indoor FTP, possibly a different one for each bike you use on trainer (or always use the same bike)
    • an outdoor FTP for the TT bike in aero position - this is the one you use for race day execution
    • an outdoor FTP for road bike, if you do a lot of training on that.
    • God forbid you should a lot of training at different altitudes, like I do, you'll need an adjustment for going up or down more than, say 1000 meters in elevation
  • Thanks Al, Rian, and Tim.  Will apply advice and push on!

  • FWIW - I think Tim's statement about hitting numbers any way possible is only true to the extent that you are comparing workouts in that same "any way possible". As Al says, there are clear positional and indoor/outdoor differences.

    I am That Guy who tests better indoors than outdoors (fairly unusual). I think this is because I am better able to do that "any way possible" thing when I don't have to actually worry about the road/traffic/etc and can just wail away at the pedals. For me, it's pretty awful psychologically to go from indoor road bike numbers to outdoor TT bike...so last year, I just tilted my TT bike up (so I could better watch TV) and rode in position for my FTP work. The indoor/outdoor gap was more manageable. Again...this is just Me. I will probably do the same this year.

    That said, I see no problem with someone else just getting it done any way they can on the indoor bike, as long as they know that it's not going to be the same number they are pushing outside on their TT.
  • FTP test today, to stretch my legs and assess what two weeks of taper and two weeks of recovery did: lost 9% from the year's peak. I hope to get about 4-5% of that back by the start of the OS, and the rest by April/Tucson Rally. Tomorrow AM, run intervals, then swim/bike on Thursday.
  • I think I will join in on this thread if for nothing than I am curious about the past 2 weeks of running as they compare to each other...I am on RD #2 Plan week 2 of 4.  Lots of running after coming back from an injury and no running at all from mid-August to mid-October.  

    The running is great, my hip is feeling fine, and I can feel the adjustments I have made to the good while I run.

    Last week on Tuesday (as I have done for the past 4 weeks) I did 2x1 mile repeats (4") outside in CA at my parents house- very similar elevation to my house in MI, different temps and humidity, but terrain relatively the same.  I usually do them outside or on the treadmill at home if the weather doesn't cooperate.  At my parents' house, I found myself doing them a full minute faster per mile with similar HR and RPE (or feeling even easier!) last week (8:15/mile).

    I thought maybe I wasn't giving it my all at home, so this week I attempted to do the same pace (unfortunately on a treadmill, as I don't do sleet if not under duress) and my HR and RPE were so much higher on this attempt than last weeks and I am wondering what gives?  I know it's a little apples and oranges between the 2 modes, but I ran a mile (to test the theory as it was already forming in my brain) on the treadmill last wednesday at my parents' gym and I could still manage a 8:20 (8:21) pace with similar HR and RPE to the day before's outdoor run.  

    I know, we can't really say -- nutrition, sleep, etc. could all be a part of it, but the running in CA felt effortless and I come back here and it's a lot more fighting for the same result.  Am I not accounting for something?  Just thought I would pick your brains. Thanks! 

  • @ Susan - comparing one treadmill to another, or a treadmill pace to outdoors is probably not very fruitful. You just can't trust the "speed" which they display or even that it will be the same from one day to the next.

    Also, if you are not using a LOT of airflow via fans when you're on a treadmill, you are dealing with internal heat buildup issues, which WILL slow you down.

    Using a Garmin type watch with a footpod, and calibrating it outdoors, then using it on the treadmill is one way to keep consistency across all venues.

  • So what you're saying Al is that you are endorsing the #1 item on my Xmas wish list, yes? I will relay that to my husband. image

    Thank you for saying that-- as I was writing that post, it seemed to become less and less evidence-based, but I appreciate your reply and explanation.  The more I delve into EN, the more I realize how little I really know about training and racing--- but I am learning a lot.  

  • Calibration on a treadmill and outside won't be quite the same because of changes in stride, but it's pretty close. Matt Aaronson did a good long post on this last year... maybe he can dig out the URL if folks are interested.

    ---

    Back to the topic at hand, I'm doing the "Run Durability 3" plan this month, which is mostly running, with just a bit of cycling and swimming.

    Yesterday was a simple hour run with 2 x 1 mi at TP. Unfortunately, I didn't get stopped by snow or ice, but did run into nasty traffic and had to stop for a few seconds during each of my 1 miles...so I tried to work the last parts hard. Times for the "miles" were 6:40 and 6:29. Seems like maybe I'm adjusting to the winter running finally. 7.75 mi overall. http://connect.garmin.com/activity/412095735
  • @Susan, in addition to differences in treadmills, you should consider setting the incline on the treadmill to at least 1 and possibly 2 to simulate the resistance of running on the road. I think you'll find your efforts (in vs outdoor) much more similar once you do this. 

    Speaking of which, I did my 3x1 mile @ z4 last night on the dreadmill at the gym. Windy and snowy outside. Set incline to 1.5. Did my intervals at a fairly comfortable 6:44, which is 7sec faster than my prescribed pace. I think my Vdot is holding steady since before IMAZ!


  • Posted By Susan Ogilvie on 04 Dec 2013 08:29 AM
    <p>So what you're saying Al is that you are endorsing the #1 item on my Xmas wish list, yes? I will relay that to my husband. image</p>
    <p>Thank you for saying that-- as I was writing that post, it seemed to become less and less evidence-based, but I appreciate your reply and explanation.  The more I delve into EN, the more I realize how little I really know about training and racing--- but I am learning a lot.  <img alt="" src="http://members.endurancenation.ushttp://members.endurancenation.us/DesktopModules/ActiveForums/themes/_default/emoticons/smile.gif" /></p>
    If what you are saying is "I need a pace watch", yes you have my 100% endorsement. Some people might argue for a power meter as the best aid to improved training, but I found the biggest impact on my training and racing when I got my first Garmin 205 back about '04. I've since graduated thru a 305 to 310XT. The combo of HR, pace, and cadence helps me each and every run I do, indoors or out, and also on race day. The 305 is just fine, even works as a bike computer. But the 310 XT can also serve as a back up power meter head unit, just in case...
  • I'm working on my biking legs preparing for the OS test. I'm up to an hour ride a few days a week with my push up pull up core challenge added on at the end of my workouts.
    Yesterday was my first run in two weeks. I ran on the bike path and made a turn on a trail. I found something new, a trail, man that was cool I have been using that bike path for a long time and didn't even know it was there. The end result was 5 miles. Pretty neat to just go out and run .... 5 miles. Marathon fitness ebbs away slowly but the weight seems to want to come back faster.

    I'm not following a plan right now feels good to do what I want. At that, it seems like I'm running 3 and biking 3 days a week. Kind of sounds like a plan now that I'm writing it. Last year was a year spent on run durability with a focus on SC stuff no TRIs but a few DUs. I'm thinking about the pool again for perhaps a Tri season. I'm also thinking about a tracking device for the pool so I can enter in WKO with a download vs. just manually entering in my data. Any suggestions?

    I'm using a PT, LYC, now for a bike a 405 Garmin for the run.
  • Thanks for starting this Dr. Jenks image

    Starting late in the week but plan to get a swim in tomorrow morning and some runs this weekend.
  • Did my 1 hour bike from the GF plan this morning. I've been experimenting with "manual" intervals on my Edge 500. Manual meaning I don't use the computrainer to provide constant resistance, instead I keep an eye on 3 second power and try to keep it in the appropriate range. I'm noticing I do kind of a bell curve--a little low, then up for a couple, then down again on the latter end. Average for all the intervals is a little below the desired power output. I went to the manual intervals because I was forgetting how to shift--no shifting required on the computrainer with constant resistance. I'm finding it's a lot more challenging to do Z5s when I have to shift. I'm probably getting in 4 workouts per week right now. It's the best I can do.

    The spirit of Dino possessed me and I bought a used road bike this week off eBay. Nothing fancy, probably the lowest-end Blue made, an Axino ES, but it has a carbon frame and SRAM Force components for about $1,200 shipped. Frame had never been ridden (unpainted carbon). Components were new. I'll post pics it when it arrives in a week. I would like to ride in the local 50-mile road race this spring. Having never done this, I'm looking for any suggestions you have. I'm 52, so I'm not expecting to be the next champ of the Tour de France, but I also don't want to embarrass myself.

    I started an intermittent fast today. Read about it in the WSJ. Basically, I restrict calories to 600-800 two days/week. The other days I eat what I want. It fits in my head space where a full-on diet would not. Seems like a step in the right direction. My 600-800 calorie meal was two hours ago and I'm hanging in there;-).

  • Posted By David McLaughlin on 05 Dec 2013 09:52 AM




     I'm also thinking about a tracking device for the pool so I can enter in WKO with a download vs. just manually entering in my data. Any suggestions? 

    The 910xt is an obvious candidate but it is expensive and duplicates a lot of other devices. The other option is the Garmin Swim, a lot cheaper at ~$150 and has all the pool swim functionality of the 910xt plus is small and light enough to be wearable as a watch. No constant re-charging, either (battery lasts forever). No GPS for open water swim tracking, however. I don't know how WKO interprets swim workout uploads but TrainingPeaks takes it all and even calculates a TSS based on your t-pace, etc. In Garmin Connect, here's an example of how the output looks: http://connect.garmin.com/activity/215874473

     


  • Posted By Steven Harrast on 05 Dec 2013 02:24 PM


    I started an intermittent fast today. Read about it in the WSJ. Basically, I restrict calories to 600-800 two days/week. The other days I eat what I want. It fits in my head space where a full-on diet would not. Seems like a step in the right direction. My 600-800 calorie meal was two hours ago and I'm hanging in there;-).
    Is this a one-time thing like a "cleanse", or is this something that's meant to be sustainable? Honestly it seems bizarre.


  • In wk 3 of BF plan.  Starting to get "used to" the trainer again.  Already finding it easier to hold the Z4 power for the whole time, probably a factor of increasing strength/power and getting used to the trainer suck.  Not much running in this plan, but making sure I do them all and get all of the TP time for sure.  

    Had lessons 2 & 3 of 6 with my swim coach.  He's with Total Immersion, but also has coached and still fills in coaching high school swimmers.  Having to "redo" my stroke pretty much from scratch, as I have no formal prior swim training (other than completing the Red Cross swimming program in the late 70's!).  The underwater video stuff is sooooo helpful.  I was spending a lot of time with neither hand in front of my head (not front quadrant swimming!) and my pull was really short and ineffective.  If I can actually incorporate these changes, I will be much more "sleek" and streamlined and be able to be so much more efficient.  Man it is hard, though, to change.....can only focus on one thing at a time and then what I just fixed goes right back to crap!  Stupid brain.  

  • I started an intermittent fast today. Read about it in the WSJ. Basically, I restrict calories to 600-800 two days/week. The other days I eat what I want. It fits in my head space where a full-on diet would not. Seems like a step in the right direction. My 600-800 calorie meal was two hours ago and I'm hanging in there;-).


    @ Steven, there isn't any evidence that what you are doing is beneficial. A fast or a cleanse doesn't do the body any good and the only people it benefits are the people selling you this bill of goods. I forget the percentages something like 30 - 70 or vis e verse, that the immune system is in your gut then goes into your blood stream. So restricting/fasting yourself is harmful putting in junk would be better as the body can extract something good from it.

    @ Matt, as always thanks I'll take a look at this.
  • Wed and Thu were run days for me, with a short swim on Thursday as well.

    Wed was an indoor run: 7 mi, the last 3 at sub-7:00 pace. (I hope to run Boston next spring at just over 7:00 pace) http://connect.garmin.com/activity/412443888

    Thursday was an easy outdoor run...just a few strides. It was, shall we say, "brisk" outside (10 degrees at the start), but I'm learning to cope. :-) http://connect.garmin.com/activity/412732301
  • @Steven Harrast X2 on the fasting or under-restricting calories.... Better off practicing good habits, the right foods and the right amounts equal to the activity of the day... We fast everyday when we sleep...If ya wanna fast , have an earlier dinner!

    @David M... I'm a big fan of the garmin 910xt... makes indoor swimming (counting easier) and downloading the workout after easier... Works well outside as welll except like all garmins always seems to add a 1/10 long... which factored into your per 100yd pace is significant outside.... Still love it because it measures better than anything else for OWS.

    Hard bike with 4 x 5 at 105% yesterday.... Easy short swim this am... However I did throw in a 1000yd test! ..... Oh wait , FTP bike on tues, Swim test today , local 5k tomorrow will be the final test of the week giving me a good baseline in all 3.... Next week will be mostly travel with no wko's but will start up OS around 12/15 using this weeks baseline numbers...

    http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/523812-Whaleback yesterdays ride

    http://connect.garmin.com/activity/412733824 todays swim
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