5K TT on treadmill vs. outside

steve Beyer

Have people noticed a big difference...time wise...between a 5K tt outside vs. on TM? (ie.. usually faster/slower). I've never done one on the TM until this morning and I did a 21:04, and my best (outside) last year was a 21:45 (totally flat course and good conditions btw). 

I know it's a little apples-to-oranges,that I'm just establishing training zones, and that I need to do the next one on the TM etc...... I'm just asking because I'd like to think I can still take away some improvement gained, but don't want to get too excited until get others take on it based on experience.

For some perspective, I took 2 wks off after IMFL, then did 3 wks of run durability plan(really 4 since I did my transition week almost the same). My GRP for the runs were 8:45/mile, but I felt really good and did most all runs closer to 8:00/mile. Again, feel like the running is coming along, but don't want to get prematurely excited....need all the expertise on the team to help me put the results of the 5K on the TM in proper perspective.

Rumpole

I don't think it matters much so long as the test is repeatable. If the treadmill was @ 0 grade, then the number may be closer to your outdoor time tho'. See this chart: http://www.hillrunner.com/training/tmillchart.php

mancona

Yes, i've noticed a 30"-60" difference. My personal experience is that with equal fitness, the fastest for me will be:

1. Treadmill during an indoor race (i.e. indoor tri) - they set it to 0% and I have the motivation of a race and people suffering next to me
2. Outside during an actual 5k race with people to chase (this is how i test for the season)
3. Treadmill solo at 1.5% incline (this is how I test for the OS)
4. Outside solo

So i conclude the TM is a little faster, but the motivation of a race environment is equally as big of a factor for ME.

I tried many times to figure out the exact delta but there are just too many variables. If you are doing your OS training on the TM, then just use the 21:04 to get your vdot and train accordingly. At the end of the OS, run a race outside to get your "real" vdot going into the season.

I look at it just like the indoor/outdoor watts issue, test the way you will be doing the majority of your training for the OS.

jmc1888

Thanks for the link.  Due to extreme cold and kids / schedule, I am running on TM more these days and was wondering the same thing. - JMC

Gaudir8

@Steve

The other thing to consider as well is was the 5k race dead on distance wise or long/short. Not to mention all the other variables.I think it always needs to be repeatable and that is the beauty of the treadmill from a testing standpoint. BTW that is a very nice vdot to START from!

Gaudir8

@Chris 0% grade is actually SLOWER than the pace you would run outside. The grade increase takes into again wind resistance primarily. The coaches say the incline should be 1%if you do OS on the treadmill and 1.5% for the vdot test.

Rumpole

@ ray: I think we're saying the same thing. A 7 min mille on a 0 grade Tmill is a 7 and change mile outside.

Gaudir8

Your right Chris!!!

Gaudir8

or is that Your right Fat Bastard!

Shaughn Simmons

Correct on the below TM guidance guys.  I run the TM at 1.5% and I calibrate my footpod to the TM at that incline for future TM excursions....otherwise, with no incline adjustments, you will be faster outside, at same effort, than inside on a TM at 0% incline.  Additionally, the faster you are, the more the incline, needed.  For peeps running 6 or sub 6 pace 5Ks you would need to consider a 2% incline on the mill....................

Dawn Cass

I just did my TT today on the treadmill. Considering winter cold temps, this is going to be the most consistent. In my mind, I am probably a bit faster on the treadmill however if you plan to do all the winter tests on it, I am not sure it really matters. What you are looking for is overall improvement from a baseline, right? That being said, if you do test on a treadmill, and plan to run outside otherwise...then it's probably not a fair comparison. For me, when the weather warms up, I will retest at that time to set a new baseline..hopefully faster than today, however not necessarily comparable indoors vs out.

DuaneRorie

Did my 5k TT yesterday (during the evening which was less than ideal for several reasons). I find I can not hold the same pace on the treadmill that I can hold during a race. Yesterday average pace was 7:38 on a 1.5% incline while some race results over the last year are:

Little Rock Half Marathon 6:36/mi
New Orleans 70.3 7:45/mi
Boulder 70.3 8:17/mi
Boulder Peak 10K: 6:56/mi

Any thoughts?

Gaudir8

@Duane

Do you run much on the treadmill? It is tough to just jump on and try to eke out a 5k time if you don't run one much. You almost feel like your going to shoot off the back!

Your times are awesome so unless something drastic has occurred since one of the races I would say its the unfamiliarity of the treadmill.

I am the exact opposite. I wish my outside times were as fast as my treadmill times.

Al Truscott

Also, if you did not have good ventilation - lotsa fans -  your core temp may have gone up requiring you to slow down.

I agree with Ray - use one of your races to set your training VDOT. I suggest the Boulder Peak 10K. The half marathon was at a lower elevation (AR) than you are now (CO?), that would not be applicable to running with less O2 in the air in CO.

steve Beyer

Thanks everyone