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Stages Power Meter

I am considering Stages as my first power meter mostly because it seems to be the least costly option with a fairly easy switch from bike to bike.  I know there has been a good deal of discussion about Stages being a new technology with a lot of potential issues. Any guidance on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Comments

  • Coach Rich would recommend you go with a tried and true Power Meter, either PowerTap or Quark. For not much more than the stages you could get a training wheel with PowerTap built in and a disc cover that turns it into a race wheel. The wheel is even easier than the stages to switch between bikes. There are threads in the forum about some Stages horror stories. I am actually waiting for final spousal approval and then I am going to go with a Zipp 101 wheel with PowerTap.
  • Here's my thought on crank based PMs: in the last four years, I've changed cranks 4 times: dura Ace to Zipp, then to shorter SRAM red, now this month to even shorter Ultegra Di2. I've changed rear wheels exactly once, and that was to get a PM put in there. Given the prices of wheels compared to cranks, I assume I'll be much more willing to play around with crank options than with rear wheels. Besides, a crank based PM limits one's options to the cranks the PM folks are willing to work with.
  • I'll give you the opposite side of that equation. I have rotated through 4-5 different wheel options in the past 3 yrs and have had exactly the same crank size the entire time. I think a crank based Powermeter option allows you to use different training wheels or different race wheels. You can also borrow or rent race wheels and know that your power numbers will not change from what you trained or tested on. I have the same Bottom Bracket on 3 different bikes and I can swap my Quarq from one to the other in about 60 seconds. Probably faster than you can swap the rear wheel (or should I say close enough difference for that not to be a deciding consideration one way or the other).

    If it was me though, I'd buy a used Quarq on eBay for ~$800 before I spend $700 on a Stages. (unless the stages is a lot cheaper than that now...) If you sell your existing crank for $100-150, then you've closed that gap to almost $0. However, I ride 170mm cranks and they can be easily found. I know you are a LOT shorter than me and it's unlikely you'll find one shorter than 170mm though, so that may be the deciding factor for you right there. If you needed 165mm or smaller, then you'd need to go with the Elsa which will run you ~$1599 new (or accidentally stumble across one on eBay for ~$1,200.

    I'd be curious if any "Early Adopter" Stages users would chime in here. I know there were some obvious bugs in the beginning, but I thought many of them were already fixed.
  • Love Al's advice, but I'm with JW on this--I run the same GXP bottom bracket on all my bikes (or use a GXP adapter with my BB30 bike) and switch my Quarq to any bike. I have many rear wheels, only one crank--172.5 Quarq for me. Quarq has fantastic customer service in my experience.
  • JW 60 seconds? You should be on a NASCAR pit crew.
  • I agree with JW. MOST people will likely not likely swap out cranks. You can get caught chasing your tail trying to replicate the latest thing the pros are doing. The crank based PMs are by far the best and I have owned both quarq and SRM. I am an SRM snob however. Competitive Cyclist has the DA9000 SRM for $2,300. I have never seen it that cheap. Or you can go the ebay way that JW recommends but I don't think the warranty will transfer.
  • I am in week 6 with Stages and I like it so far.  No real issues with dropping ANT+ signal or anything.  I did have a dead battery one morning that was a surprise (maybe my crank was leaning on something overnight but the bike sits in the trainer so I doubt it).  I immediately stashed 2032 batteries in all of my tri kit bags and bento boxes because I'm sure I will get to a transition area with a dead power meter at some point.  The batteries are very easy to change.

    Over the long term, I am a little concerned about getting left leg power readings only, resulting in leg imbalance.  Especially since I am already left leg dominant.  I've noticed that I'll sometime push a little harder with the left, or conversely, when I'm pushing hard with the right and slacking a little with the left, the power readings drop even though I know I'm pushing hard with the right.  Not a killer, but certainly something I'm watching closely.

    For new, and ease of switching between bikes, and avoiding having multiple rear wheels, I think Stages at $800 is a steal.  

  • I swap wheels more than I do cranks. I train with my race wheels but some races dont allow disc's so you have to use the disc cover.... My Felt is a PIA to adjust brakes so I want the brakes to stay adjusted for the same width wheel and I dont want to put the cover on and off all the time... Went with FLO wheels and am waiting to get the Disc... For this reason I dont like the idea of a wheel hub PM....

    My Quarq has failed and been replaced twice. Its not always as simple as people make it out to be.... You need a replacement crank if that happens , it needs to have the same gearing , or you will have to adjust your chain as well....

    Heather has had a Stages on her bike for almost a year. One battery went quick. Other than that its been awesome. I tested or compared the Stages to my Quarq by riding the same 10 mile loop with each bike at the exact same power. I was slightly faster on the Stages bike and the RPE was slightly higher but both very consistent. All that meant to me was that compared to the Quarq the Stages was probably a couple watts higher.

    If I was buying a new bike or PM tomorrow I would go Stages... JMO
  • I am new in the powermeter club, went with stages after reading 2nd DCRainmaker's review and was comforted by Tim's review. Glad i did, only problem IMO is the batterie life (+No low bat warning) but u get used to it (put a new batterie in bento box just in case). So happy with stages that i bought a 2nd one with different crank size.
  • Sorry, I thought I sent this reply out yesterday. Thanks for this guys, this is awesome information, very helpful. This is why I really appreciate EN: the Team has so much knowledge and experience and you get it in a flash. It's like having a coach at your fingertips.

    A little addendum here, someone in my tri group is selling a PT mounted on a DT Swiss wheel with cassette and Gatorskin tire, Joule 2.0, cradle and skewer for $650 maybe $600 or less. Stages, I am thinking, is $200 more than that. Does this help my decision? Ugh, too many choices in this sport, lol.

    -K
  • just fyi, I ordered (sram compatible) one on December 17th, I still don't have it yet image  I didn't realize the order site says may take 4-5 weeks to receive it, so plan ahead.  In this day and age of instant gratification it caught me off guard,
  • I've a Power2Max crank based PM on my TT and a Stages on my Roadie!
    As JW already said - I also do change wheels quiet frequently as well as I own a very special set of "racing only" wheels which I would NEVER EVER ABUSE during riding on my trainer!

    The stages PM is awesome but you have to know that you are only measuring your left leg which is then multiplied by 2 which is not accurate for almost 99% of all riders in the world! But when you know about that and you use your Stages PM all the time (not switching between different PMs as I do sometimes) then you should be fine even though you should not directly compare your power values to other peoples using a Quarq, SRM or Wheel-based sensors (last ones will even read up to 5% less then crank based as the drive train is also eating up some Watttzzzz)
  • Yeah...the order delay caught me off guard too.  I waited a month for mine.  Also, they don't use FSA crank arms so if you are still rocking the FSA crankset you got with your P2 complete bike, you'll have to upgrade to Ultegra or SRAM.  Which isn't a bad upgrade anyway.

  • Ken-- That wheel (and stuff) is probably worth $550-600. But it doesn't change my opinion. FWIW, I have several Powertap Wheels as well for training (and for Jess) and for racing... But I converted over to the crank based system and wish I made the crank based system first before I spent the money on the other wheels. There is nothing wrong with PT wheels. They are bulletproof and great technology. And TONS of people use them effectively. But I still think given the small price differential that the crank based system is better.

    btw, What size/type of crank is currently on your bike(s)?
  • Thanks John W, good advice as always. I have FSA Gossamer MegaExo I'm not certain of the crank arm length. I think it's a 170mm but it may be 165, I need to check. I also know that Stages does not yet have the FSA crank arm yet but they say it should be any week now.
  • Can anyone here tell me what you're using with your stages (or other) power meters? I'm ready to buy. Any recommendations? I was thinking about buying the Garmin 500, but wondering if anyone uses the Garmin 910 or 310 with a Stages or Quarq meter? My old forerunner is in need of replacement, so wondering if I can kill two birds with one stone by buying the 910.

    Thanks in advance for any recommendations.
  • The 910 doesn't work well with the Stages. Signal loss is at an unacceptable level for the 910.

    I use the 510.

    I have a 500 laying around that I'm not using. I'd sell it to you for cheap if you're interested.
  • Thanks I may take you up on that. Doing some more research. Based on your experience with the stages pm, would you buy again? Or would you select a different one? I had heard that problems with stages had generally been worked out. The price point on the stages is very attractive - and I think I'm leaning toward a crank based meter.
  • For me, I would definitely buy again.  There's no way I could have absorbed the $2k for a new crank based meter, and the fact that I have multiple wheelsets would have meant that I would have been in the $2k range for going hub-based as well.

    I did have battery draining issues; I contacted customer service and they sent me a new PM overnight after the firmware update didn't solve it.  They haven't even asked for the old one back yet (although they told me they would eventually).  So: even with some issues I'm still sold on the price point and customer service.

  • Also, I have a 910 and a 500.  I have also seen the connectivity issues with the 910 so I just use the 500.  That works better for my race day setup anyway.


  • Posted By Matthew Foster on 09 Feb 2014 10:30 AM


    Thanks I may take you up on that. Doing some more research. Based on your experience with the stages pm, would you buy again? Or would you select a different one? I had heard that problems with stages had generally been worked out. The price point on the stages is very attractive - and I think I'm leaning toward a crank based meter.


    http://members.endurancenation.us/F...fault.aspx

     

    This is a thread I had started about my initial experience with Stages (which wasn't all that great).  Their customer service was excellent and the new unit appears to work flawlessly but I must admit I haven't used it much.

    I would buy it again.  The ability to use the new Shimano Dura-ace crankset is a huge plus.


  • Posted By Richard Smith on 09 Feb 2014 10:41 AM

     They haven't even asked for the old one back yet (although they told me they would eventually).

    It took them about two months to ask for the old one back.

  • I just purchased a Stages power meter last month and use it with my 910. I have had no issues period, knock on wood. When budget permits I will get a bigger garmin 5xx for the bike as the display of 4 fields on the 910 gets a little small for me.
  • I have a friend who rides for Team Sky and they've just switched to Stages- a pretty big endorsement. I was very surprised that they left SRM, as money is clearly not the issue but Stages must have really sweetened the pot and he says they work just fine.

    I invested in an SRM 8 years ago. It's been bulletproof and as such has been worth the investment. If you've settled on crank arm length, I see no better option than crank based power. There's no screwing around with hubs and you can run any wheel you want. If I were to do it today I'd go Quark or Stages for sure. Much more affordable.

    Before that I had an Ergomo. That was an Ergo no go.
  • Thanks for the advice! I got the Stages with a Garmin 500. Also got a new Trek Speed Concept. It'll be a few weeks still before everything arrives and gets assembled. I'll let you know what I think when it all arrives.

    When I placed my orders and paid my money for the new bike and electronics, it felt like putting a letter in the mail to Santa. Everyday I think about how many days until I get to unwrap the presents!

     

  • For what it is worth...

    I've been using the Stages with my Garmin 500 for about 9 months. The deice worked perfectly until about a week ago - at which point the data became a little erratic and the ANT+ started losing synch. Stages customer support has been tremendous - they immediately shipped a new unit which as arrived and I already have installed.

    I find the device super easy to calibrate and the iPhone app makes updating firmware trivial. The batter life is a little low - and it seems sometimes that the device must become activated during shipping, because it has been DOA after unpacking on a few occasions. I carry a supply of batteries in my tool bag.

    The temperature compensation is excellent; I rode the Copper Triangle late last summer and had a great data set afterwards.

    I just recently bought a second Stages device for my wife. My experience has been very positive and I recommend it.
  • I have Stages power meters on both my road and TT bikes and a Garmin 310XT. I'm happy with how they're working, and I feel like I got both PMs for the price of one by going with Stages. These observations aren't original, but I'll just add them to the heap here:

    1. Battery life on the Stages can be quite short. I've had a couple batteries go dead after one ride. Could it be it's staying on after I finish riding? I found a place online where I bought 50 batteries for $17 so I should be set for the year. Changing the battery is a snap, but it's a good idea to calibrate right after you change it. One time I changed the battery and didn't calibrate and I was getting wattages well into the 400s on a Z4 wko. I wish.

    2. The Stages seems to give readings that are higher than other PMs. I did 3 rides on a Computrainer with the Stages running at the same time so I could see the two sets of readings, both at 3sec power. A lot of bouncing around but I'd say the Stages gives me at least 10W more than the CT. No biggie if you do all your training using the same PM. Tricky indeed if you're swapping back and forth. Also, if you're going to trash talk about your FTP, shave a good dozen watts off if you're using Stages.

    3. Probably more a 310XT issue than not: In a group indoor workout, I keep getting the duplicate power meter message on the 310XT. Once there are others nearby that are up and running, there doesn't seem to be a way to get the Stages/310XT combination to ignore all the other meters and pair with yours. As a result of this, I'm missing the power files from pretty much every group workout I've been to.

  • Posted By Michael Denzien on 14 Mar 2014 12:51 PM


    2. The Stages seems to give readings that are higher than other PMs. I did 3 rides on a Computrainer with the Stages running at the same time so I could see the two sets of readings, both at 3sec power. A lot of bouncing around but I'd say the Stages gives me at least 10W more than the CT. No biggie if you do all your training using the same PM. Tricky indeed if you're swapping back and forth. Also, if you're going to trash talk about your FTP, shave a good dozen watts off if you're using Stages. 

    I think in theory the closer to the shoe/pedal interface, the higher the perceived power will be. I'm sure the physicists/engineers could explain exactly how the power is being "lost" as the force gets transferred from leg to pedal to crank to chain ring to chain to hub to wheel to road/trainer. The tire, pushing on the trainer, is at the end of the line after all the losses along the way, so the CT should read lower than other sources. That's always been true for me, PowerTap/hub compared to CT is always higher. Maybe I should just get a Stages, to up my w/kg back to where they were five years ago?

  • Nothing new to report, but I do see the computrainer drifting down in resistance (higher power reported) on longer workouts based on a comparison with my Quarq. I guess the EN workouts get the circuits heated up. Over the course of the full workout, power is very close between the computrainer and quarq. I've heard of drive train power losses of around 3% somewhere, but I could be way off on that.
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