What is it about the v02 block that Deep Fries me?

Dave Tallo

Each season, for the last four seasons, I've done a 4-6 week v02 block, and by the end I'm totally cooked.   Cooked like nothing I could approach during high volume periods, Epic Weeks, postrace ... nothing.    I can hit each and every session during the block, but I know I'm crusin' for a bruisin' down the line. 

Questions: 

-what goes on physiologically that makes this block, and the fatigue, so different from other types of overtraining?   (I was actually laughing at how weak i was in a post-vo2 run this week - unable to hold my previous FT pace for more than 5 mins ... all at a HR higher than I've seen in years).  Is it an overtaxing the adrenal system?  

-even at the beginning of the season, I acknowledge that this post-v02 burnout is going to happen, to the point that I schedule an extra 'recover from raising the roof' week into my season schedule.  On balance, is this approach of six weeks of very very hard stuff, followed by a more-or-less lost week, a good approach?  Or would cutting the vo2 block back to a shorter duration and being able to get right back at it immediately be preferable?    (imho, the risk / reward is worth it - in this, and only in this block - but I'd like to hear from others)

-TSS and other WKO markers give no indication that a crash is coming, and like I note in my earlier bullet, I have been and will be in much more perilous TSS or TSB places at other points in the season with no problems.  Is there another way to quantify the unique training stress that comes from the intensity of (and my response to) v02 work? 

-reflecting on my long-term development as an athlete, am I particularly weak, ill-suited, or do I just have the wrong type of fast vs slow twitch muscle fibre combination for this type of training?  And as far as being a self-coached athlete, is this something to exploit - iow, train to my weakness - or is it something I just accept that it has a big opportunity cost to train at, say, sweet spot (which I'm good at)  and do v02 sparingly or briefly? 

Thanks in advance - I always appreciate hearing your thoughts. 

Coach Patrick

Paul -

Thanks for the post. I'd want to know if you are doing both bike and run VO2 at the same time or not; splitting them could change how your overall fatigue level is impacted. As for the straight numbers question, it's simply a different TYPE of fatigue. I can't open my WKO+ right now, but know that my CTL in the OutSeason was like 70...and I was shelled. But when doing volume I can sit on a much larger number no problem. IOW, the training stress earned at/around VO2 levels is MUCH harder than what's earned under a typical volume-oriented approach, and how you look at the numbers has to chance commensurately as well. I am no scientist, but I think that for folks who are good at IM racing (and going long, perhaps with years of endurance experience), doing the VO2 stuff is hard. I personally have a house of fitness like a ranch...my FTP is around 320-330 and my VO2 power is around 380 (if I am lucky), and it kills me to ride that hard. I can ride .85 or . 90 for a very long time, but put me super-threshold and I am cooked very early. I have plans to improve this situation (and my FTP) by doing VO2 for shorter periods and by discipline only...so I can report back as the season goes on.

P

Norton

Paul,



I think Coach P is right on regarding our ability as long-course athletes to go mod-hard for long stretches but not so much for the over-threshold stuff; we just haven't trained for it.



There's another piece: bonus intensity. We're all pretty fit at this point; it's easy (and fun!) to drill every workout. All of us tend to forget what got us so fit in the first place; careful adherance to the "plan", respecting the intensity of the OS. We warm up a little hard, the rest interval between sets is a little hard, instead of 80-85% for the balance we wind up spending a bunch of time at 85-90%; it all adds up. I think this is the real OS killer, not VO2 max sets.

mgraffeo

Dave,

I think that there's another thing going on here, and one that we don't talk about very often.  That is the fact that all TSS points are not created equal.

Here's a few different rides, each equalling 100 TSS points:

1. a 60 minute Time Trial, low VI, holding FTP for the 1 hour (IF = 1)
2. an 84 minute Z3 ride (IF = .85)
3. an 106 minute Z2 ride (IF = .75)
4. a 140 minute Z1 ride (IF = .65)

I know that I could do # 4 every day, and not need to recover from it (if I only had the time).  But, ask me to do an all-out 40k TT, and I'm going to have to take a day or two off, for sure!  (this is the rationale behind the volume-based approach espoused everywhere else.  You can do Z1-Z2 indefinitely, and have a very low recovery cost)

So, as IF goes up, the recovery cost of each TSS point earned is higher.  Well, when we're doing roof-raising efforts, the 'on' intervals are at 110% or greater (maybe as high as 120%).  Some over-achievers like to smash it on 30/30's, because they don't feel the pain, so may hit 140% (starting to get into the CP energy system here, probably not achieving the benefit you think you are, but that's for another day).  Either way, you're acumulating TSS points very rapidly during these efforts, so the recovery cost is much higher.

So, to answer your questions more directly:

1. What goes on, physiologically? The harder the work, the more rest you need. 
2. On balance, is it worth it? For many people, yes.  At the end of the OS, the only thing that matters is your Vdot, FTP, and whether you're rested enough to start race prep.  If you've maximized those things, it was worth it.  ATL, CTL, TSB, these things don't matter much at all, because they're not indicative of the type of work you're about to do in race prep.
3. Are there any lead indicators? I don't know.  There's literature on things that suggest maybe, like HR, weight, O2 saturation, appetite, etc.  WKO certainly only tells you you're in a hole after you're in it.  There's other stuff out there that may help, but it's not proven yet.  Best answer is to pay careful attention to your body, see how you feel.  Another way is to monitor your ATL levels during a VO2 phase before you fell in.  I believe that your body has different ATL thresholds before hitting the wall based on the phase of training you're in (FTP, VO2, race prep).
4. Is this a weakness? I don't think so.  There are folks who are particularly strong at the VO2max, but have a hard time translating that into longer distance.  I'd say you're at an advantage if you can push your FTP very high compared to your VO2peak.  Raising your VO2 peak is hard for everybody.  

Hope that helps!

 

Mike

Coach Patrick

great stuff Bill and Mike, thanks for sharing!!!

Dave Tallo

Just the stuff I was looking for.  Thanks guys - good points all, and lots to chew on until the next v02 block in 10.5 months!  

GregSVan

Did someone say deep fried???

tgarson

Posted By Mike Graffeo on 22 Mar 2010 09:10 AM

WKO certainly only tells you you're in a hole after you're in it.  There's other stuff out there that may help..

 

IMHO, Raceday does a better job of measuring the cumulative effects of fatigue across multiple sports than WKO does with TSS. I'm far from an expert with either software, but I've read Dr Skiba's book and in my limited experience have found it to be a better indicator of the hole I am about to dig myself into. That being said, it hasn't stopped me from digging myself into it yet. I have Allen/Coggan's book on the way, hoping to get a better understanding of the WKO methodology from that then ultimately decide my preference between WKO and Raceday.

Check out:

http://physfarm.com/apollo/?p=102

DocHoffart

Mike,

 

I think this is WSM nomination stuff. I agree that WKO doesn't predict the "hole" that one falls into. I have been looking for the indicators and they aren't there. I have found the hole more than I care to admit. We need to find the metrics necessary to predict the hole Mike...

 

Vince