Mike Denzien's Micro Thread
Hi Patrick
Well, tomorrow I get started with my first EN workouts. Still working out the basics of reading and applying the plan. Regarding workout lengths: does the time listed in the plan (e.g. 60 minutes, 75 minutes) include warmup and cooldown time, or is it just the main set time?
Thanks
Mike D
Well, tomorrow I get started with my first EN workouts. Still working out the basics of reading and applying the plan. Regarding workout lengths: does the time listed in the plan (e.g. 60 minutes, 75 minutes) include warmup and cooldown time, or is it just the main set time?
Thanks
Mike D
0
Comments
I actually made it through my first week of actual EN training (!) Quite different from the old skool I was doing before. So far, so good - a few aches and pains but definitely haven't blown up yet. I've been throwing in a 30' to 1 hour nap almost every day to stay rested enough.
I've been following the Advanced OS plan, except that I skip the Thursday run. I'm on the bubble between Int and Adv and I'm thinking that the extra high-end reps will pay off in Spring.
I probably should have checked with you about this last week, but since this week's schedule will be the same as last I'll do it now. I made a few changes last week to make the EN OS workouts fit some "residual" workouts I had in place before joining EN:
1. I have a threshold training cycling class that runs through the first week of Feb, on Thursdays. A typical workout is 6 x 5' (3') at FTP with recoveries @ 55-60%. So, I swapped the Tuesday and Thursday EN bike workouts. I did the EN VO2's on Tuesday and the Threshold class on Thursday. No changes to the runs.
2. I have a really good group indoor bike workout on Sundays. Basically a 60 minute ride with a mix of threshold and VO2. I wore the HRM yesterday and quite a bit of the workout was at threshold or a little below. (I had the power meter with me but whenever I turn it on in a group workout, my head unit gets someone else's power data). Anyway, I decided to keep the Sunday group bike for now, so I moved Sunday's run to Saturday and did the bike/run on Sunday.
Do you see any major problems with these changes? After the Thursday class runs out I'll be putting the Tuesday and Thursday bikes back where they belong. I can either keep or bag the Sunday group bike if I need to but with the group there I end up working out harder.
Also: So far I've been doing my bike/run days as run first, then bike ("reverse bricks"). Is this OK or should I be making bricks out of these? Is there a point during the OS where I really need to be switching over to bricks?
Thanks
Mike D
Regarding this past weekend, I ended up doing active recovery on Saturday, then I combined the 3 x 1 mile run with a hard bike on Sunday. I made all my numbers just fine. Interestingly, on Sunday I felt more like I was blowing the rust off than feeling tired. It's amazing that with one extra rest/easy day you're already feeling sluggish. This is all new experience for me.
I'm still adjusting to the fact that hard is hard. With the Tuesday-Thursday stretch each week, there aren't going to be many Thursdays when I'm not sucking wind one way or another.
BTW, this Thursday is my last non-EN bike class. I'm going to re-set my schedule to be EN OS plain vanilla starting with Tuesday's run/bike. I'll substitute Thursday's class for the VO2 bike, and then it'll be all EN from that point.
I'm finding that the EN OS pattern is very well put together. If I do it "straight up" without trying to be a hero, I seem to get just enough rest to go hard the next time. If I do more than what you've laid out, that's when I get in trouble.
Just one question for now: Let's say a Thursday calls for 10 x 2 minutes @ VO2 power. So far, I've been able to finish the VO2 workouts at about 120% FTP on each rep. If I'm coming up short/tired on a Thursday, am I better off to do 10 reps at, say, 105%, or to do as many reps as I can at 120% and then skip the remaining reps?
Thanks for your help.
Mike D
We have more information for you under the Workout Triage section here:
http://members.endurancenation.us/Resources/Wiki/tabid/91/Default.aspx?topic=WorkOut+Triage
Week 8 test results are in. On the bike, FTP went from 242 to 253. On the run, 5k went from 22:56 to 22:46. Decent on the bike, but a pretty meager gain on the run.
I'd say offhand that I could have done a better run if my legs weren't so tired. Avg HR for the run was a little below threshold rather than above, making me think I was still tired from the bike test.
Help me figure out if I'm doing the OS correctly.
I've made my numbers all the time with two exceptions: Thursday of week 5 I had to break up the intervals to finish, and I dropped the workout Sunday of week 6 because I was completely bushed after the 2.5 hours the day before. Other than that I've hit 'em all. Going through the weeks, I'm always a little tired, even after the rest day. Not tired enough to prevent me from making my numbers, but tired nonetheless.
Is that the way to be doing it - a little overreached all the time? Or am I supposed to be rested enough after one day off to go at full tilt, including doing a good test if there's a test to be done?
Concerned about working too hard to do myself any good.
Help!
Mike
* how much sleep are you getting a night? -- some folks do OS every AM...but I need to be in bed by 9:30 to make that happen and not everyone does THAT!
* how are you fueling your workouts? -- many folks ignore calories indoors and really undermine their progress
* are you truly taking Mondays & Fridays 100% off or are you supplementing...
Let's get to the bottom of this!!!
P
Sleep is pretty consistent at 8-9 hours/night but some times with an early AM wake-up for a half hour after a hard wko that goes to 7PM or so, then back to sleep. I'm working like heck to get a good fuel mix - try to eat bigger carbs in a meal 2-3 hours before wko, start the wko with a gel, add a gel after each 45 min, chocolate milk right after the wko and a meal within an hour or two. For the first few weeks I snuck in a technique swim on Monday and/or Friday but when the intervals started getting longer/more numerous I tossed the swim in favor of complete rest.
In pre-EN years, I trained with a 2 weeks hard + 1 week easy cycle. I got used to being over-reached at the end of the second week, then using the easy week to get recovered enough to go hard at the next level. I was never able to do 3 weeks hard before an easy week without gradually going into a hole. (More rest needed for us 50-somethings?)
So far, the OS has me in sort of a steady over-reached state. (First experience with training this way, so don't know what to expect.) I don't feel like I'm sinking but I never quite catch up either. This, with trying to follow the advanced OS less the Thursday run.
I can always come up with ideas, so let me float a couple of strategies:
1. Go easier/rest more for a few days to clear the current over-reach, then dial back the OS to either intermediate or beginner level. Stick with the OS's "rest-as-you-go" approach, and expect to get to and stay at full strength through the next test.
2. Stick with the advanced OS but expect to reduce some workouts in every third week to try to clear the overreach. Test only after clearing the overreach.
3. Gut out the next 5 weeks on the advanced OS, expecting to stay overreached, then put more rest in week 14 to try to clear the overreach before the next test.
What should I do?
As an aside, here's why I'm willing to really bust ass this year, and run a few bigger risks if that's what it takes:
1. Just aged up into 55-59. Many old nemeses that I will never beat are replaced with new ones that I can.
2. Surprisingly, eeked into qualifying for USAT Olympic Nationals in Milwaukee with a AG 4th out of 42 at the olympic distance. Want to put in absolute best performance at Nationals.
3. 20+ people in the local tri club moving up to ironman distance this year, following EN advanced OS and leaving us short-tri guys behind. Don't want to look too wimpy next to these heroes.
Thanks Patrick
Mike
Thanks for the honest reply. I think we have to do something to make this right; staying the course isn't an option.
#1 - You need to stand down a week. Under Resources / Wiki / Self Coaching / OutSeason Page, there's an OutSeason recovery week designed just for this case: https://app.box.com/s/jixvr640fkddh6jyv2fe I think we implement this and have you re-join week 9 later...perhaps you review and we rest Fri to Fri, picking back up NEXT Weekend? We can discuss here.
#2 - My first advice would be to go back to 24 hours between workouts. Less than 12 hours (PM to AM) is brutal and will crush your recovery. In fact one year I got it to 30 hours -- AM (Day 1) to Lunch (Day 2) to Dinner (Day 3), then day OFF -- and that was my best OS ever.
#3 - if option 2 above isn't an option, then maybe we go 2 days on, 1 day off. So imagine Tues/Wed as is, thursday off, Friday at VO2 ride from Thurs/Sat as planned, Sunday off, Monday Long run/Tuesday FTP bike.
Let me know what you think!
I like this plan. I think the rest week will do a lot of good, and I doubt if I'll even lose anything from the week 8 tests. I'll start the rest week today, run it through next Friday, and re-integrate with the OS plan next Saturday. We'll see by then whether I can go right back into it or whether I need a few days to get back up to speed.
Option #2 is not something I can make work, but #3 looks doable and makes a lot of sense. If I'm reading you right, we're saying that the advanced workouts aren't necessarily too hard for me, but I need to space them out a bit more to be adequately recovered. I'll peek ahead at the OS plan and see what it looks like if we do a 2-on, 1-off pattern.
Thanks for your help. I'll check in later in the week to let you know how it's going.
Mike