Thoughts on "disassociating" during workout

steve Beyer

I've have always had, (and I assume most other endurance athletes do), times during workouts where the mind just goes "off" somewhere. It can range from mild/brief to almost borderline out-of-body. Not necessarily every workout, but consistent enough that I assumed it was endorphin related maybe, and thus a good/natural response...almost a protective mechanism so-to-speak to what you're putting your body through..

But today during such an experience I had the thought (after coming out of it), that maybe this is something to try to avoid, or fight against in order to focus more.Like especially during swimming or running, to pay attention to mechanics.

Just curious as to how common this sort of thing is, and thoughts on if it's OK to just "enjoy the trip", or if trying to have laser focus is better.

Robert Sabo

This is a great question and the answer will vary. For me it depends on the situation. swimming laps in the pool for me requires a lot of concentration on form and intensity beause it is does not come naturally to me but in a wetsuit in open water form is more natural but still need to contrate on sighting and intensity because inate pacing is poor. Bike effort is also too variable for me to lose focus. Running however is my background and while I have a garmin to give me a reality check every mile, I can run relaxed and keep pace up knowing the distance I have to go in training or a straight running race. I love to run for just these times, and I miss it greatly as I have been treating for hamstring issues for six months now. Racing IM however is completely different and disassociation for any length of time can get you into a big hole that you might not be able to recover from.
So the conclusion from my rambling is it can be great and a good experience if you are hitting your goal effort, wattage, intensity, pace and using good form.

tim cronk

Good stuff Steve.... I experience something similar while racing... I would call them mini-blackouts where all of a sudden 10-20 miles of the bike or 5 miles of the run just disappeared ...... I wish I could turn it on and off at will specially for FTP testing LOL..... While training my mind wanders and distracts me from what I am doing (not good) but I would describe it as totally different from the "out of body" or "mini-blackout" that occurs while racing.

Coach Rich

Good discussion.

I think there are different kinds/levels of disassociation and each can have their own value, or pitfalls:

• From pain/effort...or rather, the ability to sustain a very uncomfortable, painful effort without the need to apply much mental focus to do so. For me, this is very sport and venue specific. On the bike, on a climb, especially certain climbs, I'll often mentally "wake up" about 12' into the climb -- I'm totally turning myself inside out but I'm in an autopilot mode. It's like my body just says "yep, this is Chantry, I know what to do, no need for much supervision / whipping of the horse today." And I'll wake up about 12' into the climb realizing I've been crushing myself but without much mental cost. These are good days. I can do this on a hilly run but not nearly as easily (mentally) or for as long. In other words, I find myself looking at the watch much more frequently on a hard run vs hard bike. And this level of disassociation is always easier on a climb vs a flat. Hard efforts on flats take a LOT of mental effort, for me anyway. 
• From the clock / finish / the OutCome: we've all had those races where our focus on the goal, and disassociation from the pain, never waivers. We've had other races where we are just a whiny beotch the whole way . Good races happen when the Head can convince itself that what's happening to the Body is actually happening to someone else, or at least without regard to any considerations of what you're going to feel like after the race. That is, "I don't really care that you (Body) may not be able to walk tomorrow. That's not my problem. My job is to kick your ass because that's what we do. Tomorrow is your problem, not mine."
• From technique: never good. I used to run pretty much every step of every run with an excellent mental focus on my technique. That's very hard to do now since pretty much every run is with Riley, my dog. Sure, I'll blame it on the lil' doode 

Gordon Cherwoniak

For me I find it much easier to disassociate with pain on the run. I can go off to my place where I am still aware but can push myself harder. If I'm doing similar in a bike ride typically it's losing focus and my watts will drop off.  However when training is going good have sections on the bike riding outside when the time just flies by. 

I definitely feel more pain on the FTP test versus a 5kVDOT.  I typically look at the watt, rpm or HR whip to keep the bike test going.  I'm working this year on pushing my self even deeper on the bike tests, which I've done in the past physically but mentally I just have more on the run. 

Anu Rao

Great question. It happens to me sometimes when I am running, in fact I run for that reason that my mind can go off. The Oatmeal had a cartoon, and he says n there "when I run the world becomes quiet." I love the days when that happens.

I've also read some coaches say that tuning in is also important, learning how your body is handling different paces, what the effort feels likes what your breathing sounds like are all useful tools.So I am guessing you need a bit of both, zoning out is likely good for the soul, tuning in for all the racing.



I don't feel it as much on the bike, on the road I am too terrified of cars and on the trainer, I am looking at power on TR, the TV etc.

Al Truscott

I've been mulling this off and on all day. I'm very interested in general about how the conscious mind participates in athletic endevours. Going back to the Original Post, I'd respond that I never find myself losing awareness of what I'm doing at any moment. My goal, I think, is fo train myself (ie, my conscious mind) to be simultaneously aware of what my body is doing, but to try an have as little control over it ( what my body is doing) as necessary. Meaning, i want my body to be in charge of what's happening, to be able to run the show, to be able to work at a predetermined effort level at all times. The job of my mind is to monitor stuff, to make sure that's happening. Breathing, RPE, HR, pace, power, strokes per lap, as well as the physical motions themselves - all that requires a fair amount of attention. So,I never "lose myself" in the activity in the sense that I'm zoned out. But I do think I "lose myself" in the sense that I give myself - my conscious mind - totally over to the activity in question.

As Tim and Rich both suggest, I think that skill is quite useful come race day. But unless it is practiced assiduously in training, it won't be there during the 2 or 5 or 12 continuous hours needed during the race.

Needless to say, I'm not one of those people who sees running as a spiritual activity. To me, it's the tool I use to get from Point A to Point B as fast as possible on the third leg of a triathlon.

Maybe it's my desire to keep my mind aware, but not intruding, that makes me do thing like count every stroke while I'm swimming, watch junk semi sci-fi action TV shows while on the trainer, and listen to my iPod when on the treadmill or a long run. Like Anu, though, when outside on the bike, attention to the safety aspects of cycling fills the same niche. In 1997, I cycled across the country, and I don't think there was one moment when I lost myself im the scenary. If I wasn't looking out for cars in all directions, I was scanning the pavement for all manner of potential disaster.

cgres123

Interesting thing to post and certainly I can relate to what you write about. Among other things it is called anchored in the mind, that is to be in the now. A difficult thing to achieve as the mind will forever pull you/me to other things all the time every time, even as I write this sentence the mind is in the next sentence and wanting to stop writing and go make my lunch for example.

In comes neurological training, as we do physiology training all the time, for example, saying while training work works or concentrate or any other mantra that the mind has to deal with as it trys to pull you to the next thought away from your mantra into that.... space or another thought yet.
It is worth the effort to get into front sighted focus and hold it while training albeit difficult but so is physiology training too.

I put this out there as well, wondering how many of us are training ( what ever the sport ) because the mind just wants to focus on something other its endless thinking?

Anu Rao

@Al, Cycling across the country sounds pretty cool. How many days was it? Alone or with people?

Al Truscott

Posted By Anu Rao on 24 Jan 2014 12:47 PM


@Al, Cycling across the country sounds pretty cool. How many days was it? Alone or with people?

In 1997, when I stepped down after 7 years in a very high pressure job, my family (son 16, daughters 13 & 7, wife, + son's friend) loaded up an RV, and drove to East Coast. Plymouth Mass to Gig Harbor WA in three months, camping in the RV each night (driven by my son)

Here's an article I wrote about it back then. We kept a daily online journal; which eventually over the years became my blog.

Anu Rao

Thanks for sharing those, read the article, sounds amazing, lifetime of memories for you and the kids! Love the bit about making smiles.

 And sorry Steve for hijacking. 

steve Beyer

@ Anu..No worries

@Tim... Yea, I think it's interesting that you distinguish between the "bad" type, (that you experience in training) and the "good" type (experienced in racing), because I too can experience two different types, although I've had the "good" type in training also fortunately.

@Al... The interesting thing is that while I totally agree with you about not seeing running (or cycling, swimming) as a "spiritual"activity, never-the-less they can cause these states of being that are, like spiritual experiences, hard to describe in words. Like Tim calling them "mini black-outs" or "losing awareness" as you described it....I think Tim would agree with me in saying that during these experiences there still is the watching the road/traffic etc..(while cycling), and yet there is this out of the ordinary operation of the conscious mind going on.

I just find it all very interesting, and another fascinating dynamic of endurance sports......appreciate everyone's input

Dave Tallo

Quoting Al -

'As Tim and Rich both suggest, I think that skill is quite useful come race day. But unless it is practiced assiduously in training, it won't be there during the 2 or 5 or 12 continuous hours needed during the race.'

Ding, ding, ding ... winner.  Although we are are discouraged to do any real thinking about our racing when we're in the deep woods of the OS, I think this point is spot on.    This month's Pez Toolbox article empahsizes the same.  The skills to concentrate, and (a) the knowledge of, and (b) the ability to actively be able to draw upon techniques, tricks and tactics are things that you practice, and you keep developing and building as skills through training sessions ... all the time.    (Someone always quotes Yogi Berra in these threads ... this time it will be me: "90% of this game is mental, the other half is physical.")  

Having learned - the hard way - about the importance of keeping focus or being able to mentally manage an adverse or suboptimal situation in a race, I can't emphasize enought how important it is to practice those skills in training.  What this means, then, is not disassociating, but instead creating the will, and then learning tricks, to get your head in the game, and to keep it there in every session.  I used to hate EP brick runs ... now I think these punch so much higher above their weight for the sheer benefit of exercising the skill of really really really focussing on a mental tactic, or a skill, or whatever, and not dropping mental form.   I can actually draw a direct connection between the precise skill in these (for example), to how I will practice it in longer dull mid-in-season rides, to mile 80 on the bike in an IM.