@ Nikki, yes, you will see some variation. Some folks will tell you there is a lot of variation although in my personal experience it has been more modest. Don't discount that you might feel better going into one workout than another, and that can have an impact. But if it is a consistent thing...his is ALWAYS harder, then it's probably the treadmill.
@ Scott, great to hear from you. Yes, you can manually calibrate the footpod. Easy math, essentially the calibration factor is the % difference in the speed. DC Rainmaker has something on it I think. I do think it's odd you're seeing a lag in your footpod response. It does take a moment to "settle in" (as does your pace, btw), but typically should be quite responsive.
@ Scott, I’ve used the free app (IM at work and it’s on home computer) that Rainmaker recommends to analyze your runs to get an accurate calibration constant. I used several long steady runs and was seeing a real consistent 982 vs the default 1000 [GARMIN 910XT BTW] easy to then go in ant plug in the new constant........However.... When training on TM I found this made the error (speed/distance) greater! I have a very consistent 180stride cadence over flat/slight rolling terrain on road. But on TM I notice my stride length is very speed / grade dependent. The error goes up (exponentially?) as speed is increased (I do notice significant cadence changes recorded after TM runs. (gives credence to the “leg speed”/turnover TM workouts on MaccaX)
My plan is this..... 1) pick a TM I will likely use/have access to repeatedly (there is one right in front of a beam that no one likes to use....Guess that's mine till things thaw out ) 2) On a "Non-planed run day" spend a little time running at GRP (first), run for 200-400m noting footpod (FP) pace/speed. Stop and manually tweak FP constant {for me likely UP above factory default}, resume running to re-check at new settings. Repeated till close approximation between watch & TM achieved. Then check at Z4 pace noting any inaccuracies. 3) Decide if I want to have Z2,GRP, Z3 or Z4 as my "true" pace, then re-set FP constant at that paces TM accurate pace using above method. Run a segment at GRP or Z1, Z2 to note variation. 4) I now know how much variation there is between and can factor that in when looking at run data. I will likely favor faster pace accuracy over slower during the current OS. I'd rather have my Z4 efforts be recorded correctly (consistently) and live with the steady state runs reading a little faster than reality. Later when doing longer Z2, GRP and Z3 as the meat of the work I'll recalibrate to those speeds using above method. The caveat to this is, these adjustments will throw road runs using FP waaay off.
Footpod lag is inherent in the system because it has to collect a few strides and average the data. If you look carefully, you'll see lag on GPS pace data as well, but it's a little more obvious in the footpod. The biggest change is from zero to getting moving. If all is going well, the lag isn't too noticeable the rest of the time except for when you are obviously dramatically changing pace. Think of it as a "moving average" for the last several seconds.
Thursday morning early runs are never the "easy" runs they are supposed to be in my training pattern. Ran 5 mi at 8:0x and it felt like 12:0x. But that's the way it is, so I shan't complain. http://connect.garmin.com/activity/437905735
5 EZ miles on the TM this morning. The first 10 minutes I was a little stiff but after that I felt pretty good. This is the 2nd week in a row I've done the Thursday run in the morning before riding the bike in the evening and I really thinking it's helping me loosen up the muscles before the VO2 work!
A slow, not so easy 3 miles this evening. Thu is one of the lightest run days but it always the hardest run of the week for me. After hammering the bike, run, bike on Tue, Wed, and Thu, there just isn't much left in the tank for Thu night's run.
What plan are those of you who ran today doing? I saw posts re running and checked the JOS intermediate plan, but didn't see a run today. Am I missing something?
@John, I'm following the OS Advanced plan. On that plan there has been a run scheduled on Tues, Wed, Thurs, Sat, Sun every week so far.
A little over 5 miles on the TM today. 1st 3 were Z2, 2nd 2+ were Z3. I would've made it to 6 miles but the salad I had for lunch started to argue with me about 2 miles into the run
15 miles pretty easy today. 7:38 average pace. Another #%@$^ indoor run because of the snow. The pace was easy to maintain, but I did feel fairly beat up by it. I suppose my stride just wasn't perfect today.
I did the 30 min. run right off the bike today. The run felt surprisingly good given that I did an FTP test on the bike and raised by FTP by 25 watts! We shall see how my legs feel tomorrow for the long run.
Ran my 4th race since 1 Jan yesterday. 10K in 47 flat for a one point increase in the VDot. I am racing my run back into shape. In the next 4 wks I have a sprint duathlon, a 15K and a 5K. Nothing giVes you out season intensity like a race!
@Paul, congratulations to you and your family on the great results yesterday! Have fun with your new paces!
7 miles on the TM this morning. 2 X 1.5 @ Z4 plus another 1 mile @ Z2. I cut the run a little short because I'm playing some indoor soccer today (think VO2)!
@paul-congrats on the Vdot bump and impressed with your ambition to race so often! @John-strong work! @doug- Thanks for the clarification on the thurs runs-I'm following intermediate which thankfully doesn't have a thurs bric as I wouldn't have time for it anyway @William-don't envy your Boston marathon hack but strong work. I did that 2years ago and didn't make much gain in speed in either the bike or run-wasn't the best plan for a first OS but I had come from the running world and just qualified for Boston
I had a great run in sunny, windless (great conditions for final day of the waste management gold tournament here) and 60degrees: 1:10 total. With the 3 Z4-5 miles (8:30,8:07): 8:14. HR 157 7:58. HR 162 7:44. HR 158
Betsy, I would have like those conditions. I didn't get out until after 10am and schlogged through 10 miles with a heat index of 95. After several weeks of cooler weather, I have lost my warm weather acclimation and was toast after 8 miles -- breathing hard to finish the last two.
Beautiful day in the DC area today for an outside run. It was great to get off the treadmill. 75 minute total effort with the 3x1(4) intervals right around TP. After the FTP test and run yesterday, it was hard to settle into a comfortable pace, but the work is done nonetheless.
I have to say, it's pretty motivating to read about some of the work you are all doing!
@ Paul...congrats on your fine race, and family's success. Must be really cool to race with your kids and see them do so well.
Good work everyone. Keep it up.
I did 10 miles on the mill this am in 86 mins. I ran 1/4 miles alternating between 8:27 pace with 3% incline (equivalent to 7:45 pace) and 8:57 pace & 0% incline. I did this to break up the monotony. At miles 6 and 8 I thru in 1/2 mile intervals @ 7:08 pace 2% incline (6:54 equivalent). Finished with last mile @ 8:57 1% incline. Felt pretty good the whole way.
I stuck to the plan with the main set of 3x1 mi. With the 40+ degree weather I took the run outdoors and found a great, flat one mile loop in my new neighborhood.
All three were slightly faster than my prescribed paces. I'm not sure if this is the difference between 2% incline on the treadmill, or just some speed coming back. Either way, good run, but I need to make sure I start to extend these Sunday runs from 60 min to 75+.
@Brett. Same for me today. Treadmill has thrown my sense of pace/effort...even though I Use 1.5%. Road felt so much better. I hope the weather stays above 30 degrees for a while. I am feeling ham strain and knee aches I haven't felt in years (since back in my heal striking days. ...likely the treadmill messing with my stride/footstrike. I was running 20sec/mile faster at same hr.
not reporting regularly, but felt the need after the super bowl sunday morning run. Went for dinner last night and shared a bottle of great cabernet with a friend, massive hangover this am, chugged a bunch of water, warmed up, zone4 calls for 7:18 pace, blasted out 2x1.5 at 7:00 pace with HR at 158, felt great... earned my supah bowl sushi last night!
@Paul-the beauty of the airid west-no matter how hot during the day it cools off at night through the morning. Except monsoon season mid July-sept-when our humidity sky rockets and our weather is like yours-90deg at 0300
Reeeely wasn't in the mood to do anything physical. But....weather was good and needed the run..... forced myself up and out the door around 5pm. Told myself just ez till get to where I was going to do the 1 mile intervals......"we'll see then..."
Turns out I felt better after getting into the intervals.
WU: 2 miles to "PT Road" 9:45 pace
1) 8:02 150Hr
2) 8:05 155hr
3) 8:08 155hr
HR Z4 but pace ~15" faster than goal....was hard to do goal ..felt "between gears" at 8:20-8:30
Then 4 more continuous miles: 9:30 (9:15 running pace), 8:51, 8:43, (fast mile-progressively faster every 100 yrds) 7:27 ave last 1/4 mile 7:00 and below last 100yrds at 6:00 hr 180{absolute max)
Then 2 miles home @ an EZ 10:30 pace 140 hr
10.3 miles 1:36time
not bad considering how out of sorts I was at start. Glad I pushed myself to finish strong. now to rest hard Monday!
@David - Nice work. Glad you got out there and smoked the Sunday session. Strong stuff on Saturday too.
My Saturday straight-off-the-bike brick was tough. I struggled through the first 20' @ exactly my z2 pace (6:49) thinking that I'd stick with it for the entire 40'. At the 20' mark, I brought the treadmill to z3 (6:32) just to test it. Ended up increasing pace to 6:15 for the last mile. Found a way to embrace "the suck" and power through. Very satisfying.
----
Sunday run session done later in the afternoon to help recover. Felt pretty good. Total of 44' , 5.75mi , 2x1.5mi @ 6:15 (5'). Pushed a little beyond z4 without too much trouble. Unfortunately didn't have the time (super bowl got in the way...) to add the z2 time in.
@Rob Thanx for the props! Doing EN OS is new all around.....I have been used to more multi day OFF periods: just going hard+long then off for clusters of days (Prior to this MOB working 12-14hrs 2-3 days fer week + 30hr+ shift per week meant work day= rest day (or stretch/yoga)). Now with 4-5 days of ~6:30 to 4:30 I'm having to re eval my MON-FRI rest days vs using them for strength work etc. Maybe not doing 130+TSS Tues rides/90+ min WED runs ....every week yet. MON I was in zombie time....feel better today...legs still "thick" feeling....we'll have to see how the ride/run goes....Maybe follow the planed strides vs the 8 X 200's & 400's + 30min Z3 I did last week? IM guessing my CSS is getting high for what I'm used to. However (there is always a however )....I'm heading back home to Tucson for 1 day of "Honey-do" catchups and then 2 days of resort chilaxin. So....Do I Hit TUES-WED monster hard ...Thurs off (fly after work 9hrs), FRI EZ am spin before the wife is awake and SAT early strength/stretch...with SUN early am EZ run(I miss running Sabino Canyon- telephone line trail) before heading to airport? Skipping whichever interferes w/ spouse plans? Seems like I "should" go hard this first few days then not worry if I miss any/all WKOs over weekend. Ride/run post will be in Week 5 thread
Late with my Sunday run post, but still thawing out......temps were low 30's with wind chill low 20's! Mile and a half warm up at 9:30 then hit the 3 x 1 mile at 8:10, 8:06, 8:05...went another 3 miles at 8:30, 8:28, 8:22...final mile and a half at 9;30 for a cool down. Ended with a solid 9+ miles.
Comments
When training on TM I found this made the error (speed/distance) greater!
I have a very consistent 180stride cadence over flat/slight rolling terrain on road. But on TM I notice my stride length is very speed / grade dependent. The error goes up (exponentially?) as speed is increased (I do notice significant cadence changes recorded after TM runs. (gives credence to the “leg speed”/turnover TM workouts on MaccaX)
My plan is this.....
1) pick a TM I will likely use/have access to repeatedly (there is one right in front of a beam that no one likes to use....Guess that's mine till things thaw out
2) On a "Non-planed run day" spend a little time running at GRP (first), run for 200-400m noting footpod (FP) pace/speed. Stop and manually tweak FP constant {for me likely UP above factory default}, resume running to re-check at new settings. Repeated till close approximation between watch & TM achieved. Then check at Z4 pace noting any inaccuracies.
3) Decide if I want to have Z2,GRP, Z3 or Z4 as my "true" pace, then re-set FP constant at that paces TM accurate pace using above method. Run a segment at GRP or Z1, Z2 to note variation.
4) I now know how much variation there is between and can factor that in when looking at run data.
I will likely favor faster pace accuracy over slower during the current OS. I'd rather have my Z4 efforts be recorded correctly (consistently) and live with the steady state runs reading a little faster than reality. Later when doing longer Z2, GRP and Z3 as the meat of the work I'll recalibrate to those speeds using above method.
The caveat to this is, these adjustments will throw road runs using FP waaay off.
Thursday morning early runs are never the "easy" runs they are supposed to be in my training pattern. Ran 5 mi at 8:0x and it felt like 12:0x. But that's the way it is, so I shan't complain.
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/437905735
A little over 5 miles on the TM today. 1st 3 were Z2, 2nd 2+ were Z3. I would've made it to 6 miles but the salad I had for lunch started to argue with me about 2 miles into the run
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/438891996
@Doug - thanks for the info.
7 miles on the TM this morning. 2 X 1.5 @ Z4 plus another 1 mile @ Z2. I cut the run a little short because I'm playing some indoor soccer today (think VO2)!
@John-strong work!
@doug- Thanks for the clarification on the thurs runs-I'm following intermediate which thankfully doesn't have a thurs bric as I wouldn't have time for it anyway
@William-don't envy your Boston marathon hack but strong work. I did that 2years ago and didn't make much gain in speed in either the bike or run-wasn't the best plan for a first OS but I had come from the running world and just qualified for Boston
I had a great run in sunny, windless (great conditions for final day of the waste management gold tournament here) and 60degrees:
1:10 total. With the 3 Z4-5 miles (8:30,8:07):
8:14. HR 157
7:58. HR 162
7:44. HR 158
Intervals at 9:44, 9:35, 9:23 (hard to maintain on this TM today for some reason) followed by 45 minutes of hill repeats.
I have to say, it's pretty motivating to read about some of the work you are all doing!
@ Paul...congrats on your fine race, and family's success. Must be really cool to race with your kids and see them do so well.
Good work everyone. Keep it up.
I did 10 miles on the mill this am in 86 mins. I ran 1/4 miles alternating between 8:27 pace with 3% incline (equivalent to 7:45 pace) and 8:57 pace & 0% incline. I did this to break up the monotony. At miles 6 and 8 I thru in 1/2 mile intervals @ 7:08 pace 2% incline (6:54 equivalent). Finished with last mile @ 8:57 1% incline. Felt pretty good the whole way.
All three were slightly faster than my prescribed paces. I'm not sure if this is the difference between 2% incline on the treadmill, or just some speed coming back. Either way, good run, but I need to make sure I start to extend these Sunday runs from 60 min to 75+.
Beautiful day today here in SC. Got in my 3 x 1's this afternoon. Pace not as consistent as last week but over all not a bad set. 7.13 mile in 60'.
Mile 1 7:14
Mile 2 7:28
Mile 3 7:23
earned my supah bowl sushi last night!
Run off bike SAT:
15' Z2 (actual 8:40=Z3)out; 15'Z3 (actual 8:30 Z3.5ish) felt good
SUN Run (Goal 3XZ4 8:22) then Z2 ish
Reeeely wasn't in the mood to do anything physical. But....weather was good and needed the run..... forced myself up and out the door around 5pm. Told myself just ez till get to where I was going to do the 1 mile intervals......"we'll see then..."
Turns out I felt better after getting into the intervals.
WU: 2 miles to "PT Road" 9:45 pace
1) 8:02 150Hr
2) 8:05 155hr
3) 8:08 155hr
HR Z4 but pace ~15" faster than goal....was hard to do goal ..felt "between gears" at 8:20-8:30
Then 4 more continuous miles: 9:30 (9:15 running pace), 8:51, 8:43, (fast mile-progressively faster every 100 yrds) 7:27 ave last 1/4 mile 7:00 and below last 100yrds at 6:00 hr 180{absolute max)
Then 2 miles home @ an EZ 10:30 pace 140 hr
10.3 miles 1:36time
not bad considering how out of sorts I was at start. Glad I pushed myself to finish strong. now to rest hard Monday!
My Saturday straight-off-the-bike brick was tough. I struggled through the first 20' @ exactly my z2 pace (6:49) thinking that I'd stick with it for the entire 40'. At the 20' mark, I brought the treadmill to z3 (6:32) just to test it. Ended up increasing pace to 6:15 for the last mile. Found a way to embrace "the suck" and power through. Very satisfying.
----
Sunday run session done later in the afternoon to help recover. Felt pretty good. Total of 44' , 5.75mi , 2x1.5mi @ 6:15 (5'). Pushed a little beyond z4 without too much trouble. Unfortunately didn't have the time (super bowl got in the way...) to add the z2 time in.
However (there is always a however
Ride/run post will be in Week 5 thread