I'm still in ski mode, but took today off and went to the rec center, which is @ 2600 meters (8000') elevation. I did treadmill intervals, 10 x 1.5' (1.5') @ IP. These were @ 7:24 >> 6:44 min/mi, total of 5.5 miles in 50' with recovery intervals and warmup. At elevation like this, I can do short intervals (up to 1.5-2 minutes) @ the same pace as sea level, but the longer I go, the slower I get. Anyway, I've done two of these workouts in the past two weeks, all the S/B/R I've done. I'm thinking this (15 minutes total/week of high intensity running) is the best bang for the buck combined with my intervals on the snow.
HUMOR FOR HOU ALL TODAY. Had to travel this week so I rearranged my schedule some. Did Wednesday run today 4x1 mile early this AM. It was dark and 27 out, certainly not the Bahamian weather I am used to. Holy guacamole it was cold! Anyway, I was on my third interval running 6:20 pace looking at the boats along the river I was running and did not realize the path changed its elevation and went crashing down. I tucked and rolled but still hurt. 50 year old bodies don't bounce like they used to.
Got worn down and missed 2 bike workouts this week, got run intervals on tm & banged out tomorrow's 4x1s here in Vermont there it is fa ally 7 degrees! 80 minute total run, 6:58 6:57 6:59 7:07 Time to ski!
Flip-floped the week-end bike and run and "raced" a 15K this morning. I've been extending the Sunday runs out a little in preparation for a half-mary in March. My goal today was easy miles 1-3, then steadily pick up the pace for miles 4-9 without being totally smoked at the end...still have those 2 x 12 on the bike tomorrow!
Sunday Long Run Done! I wasn't quite sure what to expect since this is the fist time since week 2 that I was doing all workouts without any moving around/hacking, but I nailed the intervals and ran a total of 9.7 miles. Very happy. On to week 6!
Seeing all these long runs on the books is giving me some solid motivation to extend today's run to 80-90minutes...
Yesterday's brick run was again a sufferfest, but I managed to get through it. It came after a 86' ride with TSS of 116. This time I took in more calories than normal on the bike (~450cal; Perform + Powerbar) which helped - last Saturday I starving on the run.
50' out and back. With WD it was 8.25 miles in 58' 25'@z2 -- 6:45 25'@z3 -- 6:25
Chilly Willy Duathlon this morning...the unofficial, self-proclaimed (by the race organizer) Southeastern Duathlon Championship - 2nd in M55-59. I was crushed like a pop can by some dude I never heard of, but I executed my current fitness level like a veteran ninja. This was an approximate 5K-10mi-5K course. Including transition runs I had it at 3.25, 9.7, 3.15...definitely a runner's race. My current Z4 pace is 7:42 and I negative split the run segments. Here are the full mile splits:
Run 1 - 7:29, 7:46, 7:47 -- I purposely slowed after 1 mile thinking I was going too fast for this run) Run 2 - 7:40, 7:27, 7:18 -- Oh yeah! It hurt, but I had the MOJO, and a good final kick too!
Averaged 7:34.5 for those 6 miles compared to a 7:33 in an open 10K last week. I am still recovering lost speed this OS from too many years of long course, but I expect another Vdot bump in my next race...the Gasparilla 15K on Feb 22.
As to the bike leg...I was definitely out of practice getting into my shoes quickly while riding. Felt fine for about 2 miles than wham -- what the heck is that ache in the upper hamstring, lower ass, and high up in the groin??!! Geez, only sprint triathlons and duathlons tend to hit those muscles for some reason. Fortunately, it all settled down after 5 miles and then I was humming along over threshold power. I hate to say it, but I NEED more of these high intensity sprint sufferfests. In the meantime, I intend to get on the bike tonight and spin out for about 90 mins.
@ Paul...good job and nice pacing. I think you will get that Vdot bump next race.
I did the Cupid's Dash 10k this am. Cold (8F) at the start and horrible footing. Ice and slush on all the roads after 2" of new snow late yesterday. Anyway, I ran 44:36, or 7:10 pace. Finished 7th OA and 1st in +50 AG. I just made sure I didn't slip & fall so took it very cautiously, slowing to almost a walk around some of the corners. Not a Vdot bump but I'm satisfied with the effort and result in these conditions.
Sunday is my easy day. I was a little concerned after Saturday's run that it might be pretty nasty, but it wasn't too bad. Bike, about 10-12 minutes of warmup, then right around 200 W for the rest of 50 minutes. Pretty dull, but getting some work and getting some recovery http://connect.garmin.com/activity/443067333 Avg Power: 190 W Max Power: 253 W Max Avg Power (20 min): 201 W Normalized Power (NP): 193 W Intensity Factor (IF): 0.812 Training Stress Score (TSS): 54.5 FTP Setting: 238 W Work: 570 kJ
The run (which on Sunday I do on my treadmill) was my worry.... but I was pleased that it went very easily. I kept the speed setting on the treadmill to 8:00 with 1% even though I could have gone faster...want to be ready for Monday's run. http://connect.garmin.com/activity/443067349 Not sure why the display isn't working well, but the splits are there.
Paul and Bruce, nice work making the podium today!
Great work everyone else!
I ran 8.9 miles on the TM today including 4.25 @Z4. I felt really good today for some reason so I ran a 2 mile Z4 interval and a 2.24 Z4 interval both considerably faster than my Z4 pace although I was at a different gym on a completely different brand of TM so that very well could be the reason for the paces. I'm back to my home gym this week so I'll find out!
Impressive efforts out there! I did the run work this morning. Finished the 2X1.5 a little faster than my TP, and ended up with a total of 7 miles. Then I went for a bike ride with my kids (ages 4 & 6) to regain a fraction of the SAUs I burned by doing the workout before I left for a week of travel for work. Bottom line, the work was done and it felt good. I definitely feel myself getting stronger on the run this OS.
Finished my 2x1.5 and 8.5 mi total on the TM today at a very variable but slightly sub TP pace (for the intervals) overall. TM speed kept going up, such that by the end, during my Z2 time, my footpod and HR said I was running at 10:10-20, but the TM was down to displaying 3.4 mph..funky...
Run felt tough today. Seems yesterday's session took it out of me. Hip flexor and hamstring both giving me some trouble, so held off on adding much volume at the end of the 3 x1 mile sets.
3x1mi@z4 -- All at 6:15 1mi @ z2 --- 6:49 Total 6.75 miles
@Matt and Rob-I finished House of Cards and am in middle of Orange is the New Black-and struggling with the decision to get into Game of Thrones or Breaking Bad next-my daughter votes for the former but you make me lean towards the latter!
Given yesterday's experience on the bike and fiddling with my diet, I wasn't sure how today's run would go but legs felt recovered. Hit my paces on the both 1.5miles. My garmin is set at 1 mile repeats so for each I was spot on between z4-5 for the first mile, then finished the half solidly at z5. Ran a total of 7 miles then hit the gym for some core and weights
Looks like only weekend Run was the 2.5 miles arround Starr Pass resort in Tucson (SAT). quite steep hills.
9:00 first mile then 8:30 2nd with fast final push up hill. No time for more.
Creaky and stiff/sore first bit but much better by finish.
realy crumbled hard this week ..tried a stationary bike (w/o foot straps) felt real awkward and bailed after 15 min..just did a couple rounds of "Burpie comlexes" for some metabolic and full body work SUN.....looking FWD to getting back into it this next week.
Looking for some WSM input on yesterday's run. It hurt. Bad. I ran outdoors for the first time in MI of the OS yesterday. Real feel 11. I was properly dressed. There was some wind, but not much. Trail was clear and mostly flat...600ft elevation over 7.5 miles. Soo, I've been hitting my paces just fine indoors on the mill at a hr range of 154-164 for the mile repeats. Even last Sunday's at 1.5 miles.
Today, not so much. My hr was between 164-174 for similar paces. Mile one, 8:30 (slow!), mile two 8:20 (this is the mile I thought I was going to DIE and desperately wanted to QUIT) and mile three 8:14. I've been running 8:13-8:20 indoors.
So, do you think it was being outdoors in the real world (usually I think running outdoors is EASIER than the treadmill) or something else? I think I was rested properly, and fueled for the wo. I am on the comeback path, but have been hitting my run numbers (other than my crappy race in Tampa while sick) pretty consistently.
600' in 7.5 miles, if done as a steady uphill is nearly 2% grade, which is pretty significant. If I'm running a rail trail which is between 1-2%, I'll see a 20-30 second slowdown going uphill from the flats, and a similar speed up going back down. OTOH, if this was equal parts up and down, then the ups were more like 3-4%, which you would certainly notice. Your HR indicates you were working harder outdoors; I;d bet the grade was probably a bigger factor than you realized at the time.
Also, I for one am always faster on the treadmill than outside. Again, maybe 20-30 seconds per mile, but YMMV
Interestingly I run faster and more comfortably on road.... at least for interval work. My goal of Z4 8:22 on treadmill @8:20 feels more challenging and HR starts climbing slower but goes higher than road at 8:04 ave pace (couldn't quite do 8:22's) I "only" use 1.5% grade....so that's not it.....maybe its just mental.
I don't care how well you're dressed. Temp perception is different outside in reasonably cold weather than on a treadmill. Temp (perception and real) affects HR. Both of those affect RPE. RPE affects achievable goal.
For better or worse, I think a bit of practice at each new environment brings the perceived differences down. My entirely non scientific thought is that a few more outdoor runs with appropriate adjustments (if any needed) and you'll figure out if there is some "constant" by which you will need to adjust the indoor and outdoor paces. They will probably get closer to one another than they are now is my guess.
I don't care how well you're dressed. Temp perception is different outside in reasonably cold weather than on a treadmill. Temp (perception and real) affects HR. Both of those affect RPE. RPE affects achievable goal.
For better or worse, I think a bit of practice at each new environment brings the perceived differences down. My entirely non scientific thought is that a few more outdoor runs with appropriate adjustments (if any needed) and you'll figure out if there is some "constant" by which you will need to adjust the indoor and outdoor paces. They will probably get closer to one another than they are now is my guess.
I'm not sure I'm following your thinking here. I can certainly accept that *being* too hot or too cold - meaning core temperature is too low or too high - will result in a physical requirement to slow down. Specifically, too cold >> more blood is shunted to the abdominal and thoracic core to keep vital organs warm, leaving less available for the muscles. Too hot >> more blood is shunted to the skin to allow greater evaporative and conductive cooling, leaving less for the muscles (and for the gut to absorb food/fluid).
But are you saying one's mental perception of how cold (or hot) it is will affect things?
@Trish, How are other WKOs going? are you seeing high HRs on bike too? Energy low? Sounds simplistic, but I for one have a hard time keeping fluids up particularly as I loose a lot on back to back indoor WKOs and by a few days I will see a definitive performance drop....also I have recently hit the dreaded over training crump -now recovered. This winter cold weather messes with my thirst and effort/timing.
Maybe try a mixed TM an road run (is there a track or road right around where your TM is?) and see how the #s relate. If that isn't an option make sure your foundation (hydration/nutrition/'lytes) are good the days Preceding your next run are solid and see how that goes.
Your TM may also be off on its speed/distance.....and that's a whole other topic. As my earlier post for me 8:20 @1.5% feels like 8:05 on flat-ish road. However the road I run on is a mile loop that I can see all the way around so I can mentally gauge and "smell the finish"....where the TM is just this persistent spinning of my legs at a pace I'm not selecting by feel....so road wins in "ease" for me. (not minor -but also NO ventilation where I use TM....I am drenched by 1/2 way through WKO)
Your experience on TM may not mirror mine. oh...and I just thought of this....I found that I run very constant intervals -much like in Marathons etc...splits within 5 sec/mile....but I am NOT all that steady! my pace on road goes up and down cyclically by as much as 30sec/mile (never realized the significance of this)....so that is also why I hate TM-forced steady pace and I feel that..... may be the opposite effect for you.
Better wording may have been closer to Ambient and Body for Real and Perceived.
I probably used the word Perceived because I think (in cold weather particularly) that your trunk (and, I hope, extremities) can be perfectly warm but some part of your face and the whole breathing apparatus are exposed to the much colder ambient air temps. Because of this, I think the "there is no bad weather; there is only bad gear" cliche is a bit of an exaggeration. If you're running outside at 0-10 F (which I was doing before all this snow and wind started a few weeks ago), there is something different about that than running at 55, no matter how well dressed you are....at least there is for me. How much of that is mental is hard for me to say. I speak on that based only on my anecdotal experience, not scientifically.
I have read on several occasions your accounts of the overheating issues in high temps (and those of Matt S) and your accounts of what goes on make tremendous sense. Those apply to indoor running without sufficient cooling as well I am sure...but I had the issue of cold on the brain, not the issue of overheating.
Thinking about this ... yup, I don;t like the feeling of being cold on my face - whether skiing, swimming, or running - even if Im sweating during the workout. But there may be a physcial component. Breathing in 10F air (even though the nose is supposed to warm it -aren't we mostly mouth breathing during long/hard runs?) will certainly cool off the blood (all of which flows through the lungs on its way to the gut and muscles) more than breathing in 55F air. Then there's the effect of sweating, and the cold/windy air cooling us off more quickly than on a warm day.
I agree, even well-dressed and sweating, I'd rather not be running outside when it's below freezing.
And this is why I love the haus! Thanks for you input Al, William and David.
Al, I looked at my garmin data and while the biggest incline is at the end of the run, it was rolling more than I remembered. Since I had abdominal surgery in early 12/13, all my runs have been indoors once I started walking, then running again for fear of slipping outdoors. I finally got cleared to do anything and everything and wanted to run out of doors more, but the stupid vortex has kept me in. So when the chance to run in the sun came with low winds, I took it.
However, Williams point is a very valid one. My face was frozen, it was real feel 11 degrees and I just am not used to that this winter. Combine that with the hard work, rolling terrain and wind and I guess that could have been the perfect "storm" and bumped up that HR.
Since I feel "behind" this OS I am ok with staying indoors in the crappy cold to hit my paces. BUT...tomorrow it will be sunny and 36. If the winds don't go nuts, I'm headed to the metro park to run in the real world!
Comments
Time to ski!
First long long-run for Boston today. That was definitely a bit of work but I got it done. Snowing and blowing...all indoors again.
I'm starting to understand what Nascar drivers feel like. 450 left turns today.
21 miles as first 2/3 easy, last 1/3 ~MP. 3.5 bike bottles of gatorade...
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/442276709
Flip-floped the week-end bike and run and "raced" a 15K this morning. I've been extending the Sunday runs out a little in preparation for a half-mary in March. My goal today was easy miles 1-3, then steadily pick up the pace for miles 4-9 without being totally smoked at the end...still have those 2 x 12 on the bike tomorrow!
mile 1 9:13
mile 2 9:02
mile 3 9:00
mile 4 8:29
mile 5 8:02
mile 6 8:37 (uphill)
mile 7 7:49 (downhill)
mile 8 7:56
mile 9 7:55
Feeling good!
Yesterday's brick run was again a sufferfest, but I managed to get through it. It came after a 86' ride with TSS of 116. This time I took in more calories than normal on the bike (~450cal; Perform + Powerbar) which helped - last Saturday I starving on the run.
50' out and back. With WD it was 8.25 miles in 58'
25'@z2 -- 6:45
25'@z3 -- 6:25
Run 1 - 7:29, 7:46, 7:47 -- I purposely slowed after 1 mile thinking I was going too fast for this run)
Run 2 - 7:40, 7:27, 7:18 -- Oh yeah! It hurt, but I had the MOJO, and a good final kick too!
Averaged 7:34.5 for those 6 miles compared to a 7:33 in an open 10K last week. I am still recovering lost speed this OS from too many years of long course, but I expect another Vdot bump in my next race...the Gasparilla 15K on Feb 22.
As to the bike leg...I was definitely out of practice getting into my shoes quickly while riding. Felt fine for about 2 miles than wham -- what the heck is that ache in the upper hamstring, lower ass, and high up in the groin??!! Geez, only sprint triathlons and duathlons tend to hit those muscles for some reason. Fortunately, it all settled down after 5 miles and then I was humming along over threshold power. I hate to say it, but I NEED more of these high intensity sprint sufferfests. In the meantime, I intend to get on the bike tonight and spin out for about 90 mins.
@ Paul...good job and nice pacing. I think you will get that Vdot bump next race.
I did the Cupid's Dash 10k this am. Cold (8F) at the start and horrible footing. Ice and slush on all the roads after 2" of new snow late yesterday. Anyway, I ran 44:36, or 7:10 pace. Finished 7th OA and 1st in +50 AG. I just made sure I didn't slip & fall so took it very cautiously, slowing to almost a walk around some of the corners. Not a Vdot bump but I'm satisfied with the effort and result in these conditions.
Sunday is my easy day. I was a little concerned after Saturday's run that it might be pretty nasty, but it wasn't too bad.
Bike, about 10-12 minutes of warmup, then right around 200 W for the rest of 50 minutes. Pretty dull, but getting some work and getting some recovery
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/443067333
Avg Power: 190 W
Max Power: 253 W
Max Avg Power (20 min): 201 W
Normalized Power (NP): 193 W
Intensity Factor (IF): 0.812
Training Stress Score (TSS): 54.5
FTP Setting: 238 W
Work: 570 kJ
The run (which on Sunday I do on my treadmill) was my worry.... but I was pleased that it went very easily. I kept the speed setting on the treadmill to 8:00 with 1% even though I could have gone faster...want to be ready for Monday's run.
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/443067349
Not sure why the display isn't working well, but the splits are there.
Topped 50 miles of running this week.
Great work everyone else!
I ran 8.9 miles on the TM today including 4.25 @Z4. I felt really good today for some reason so I ran a 2 mile Z4 interval and a 2.24 Z4 interval both considerably faster than my Z4 pace although I was at a different gym on a completely different brand of TM so that very well could be the reason for the paces. I'm back to my home gym this week so I'll find out!
3x1mi@z4 -- All at 6:15
1mi @ z2 --- 6:49
Total 6.75 miles
@Matt and Rob-I finished House of Cards and am in middle of Orange is the New Black-and struggling with the decision to get into Game of Thrones or Breaking Bad next-my daughter votes for the former but you make me lean towards the latter!
Given yesterday's experience on the bike and fiddling with my diet, I wasn't sure how today's run would go but legs felt recovered. Hit my paces on the both 1.5miles. My garmin is set at 1 mile repeats so for each I was spot on between z4-5 for the first mile, then finished the half solidly at z5. Ran a total of 7 miles then hit the gym for some core and weights
Gorgeous day in the valley of the sun
Looks like only weekend Run was the 2.5 miles arround Starr Pass resort in Tucson (SAT). quite steep hills.
9:00 first mile then 8:30 2nd with fast final push up hill. No time for more.
Creaky and stiff/sore first bit but much better by finish.
realy crumbled hard this week ..tried a stationary bike (w/o foot straps) felt real awkward and bailed after 15 min..just did a couple rounds of "Burpie comlexes" for some metabolic and full body work SUN.....looking FWD to getting back into it this next week.
Today, not so much. My hr was between 164-174 for similar paces. Mile one, 8:30 (slow!), mile two 8:20 (this is the mile I thought I was going to DIE and desperately wanted to QUIT) and mile three 8:14. I've been running 8:13-8:20 indoors.
So, do you think it was being outdoors in the real world (usually I think running outdoors is EASIER than the treadmill) or something else? I think I was rested properly, and fueled for the wo. I am on the comeback path, but have been hitting my run numbers (other than my crappy race in Tampa while sick) pretty consistently.
Trish - just a coupla thoughts...
600' in 7.5 miles, if done as a steady uphill is nearly 2% grade, which is pretty significant. If I'm running a rail trail which is between 1-2%, I'll see a 20-30 second slowdown going uphill from the flats, and a similar speed up going back down. OTOH, if this was equal parts up and down, then the ups were more like 3-4%, which you would certainly notice. Your HR indicates you were working harder outdoors; I;d bet the grade was probably a bigger factor than you realized at the time.
Also, I for one am always faster on the treadmill than outside. Again, maybe 20-30 seconds per mile, but YMMV
For better or worse, I think a bit of practice at each new environment brings the perceived differences down. My entirely non scientific thought is that a few more outdoor runs with appropriate adjustments (if any needed) and you'll figure out if there is some "constant" by which you will need to adjust the indoor and outdoor paces. They will probably get closer to one another than they are now is my guess.
I'm not sure I'm following your thinking here. I can certainly accept that *being* too hot or too cold - meaning core temperature is too low or too high - will result in a physical requirement to slow down. Specifically, too cold >> more blood is shunted to the abdominal and thoracic core to keep vital organs warm, leaving less available for the muscles. Too hot >> more blood is shunted to the skin to allow greater evaporative and conductive cooling, leaving less for the muscles (and for the gut to absorb food/fluid).
But are you saying one's mental perception of how cold (or hot) it is will affect things?
@Trish, How are other WKOs going? are you seeing high HRs on bike too? Energy low? Sounds simplistic, but I for one have a hard time keeping fluids up particularly as I loose a lot on back to back indoor WKOs and by a few days I will see a definitive performance drop....also I have recently hit the dreaded over training crump -now recovered. This winter cold weather messes with my thirst and effort/timing.
Maybe try a mixed TM an road run (is there a track or road right around where your TM is?) and see how the #s relate. If that isn't an option make sure your foundation (hydration/nutrition/'lytes) are good the days Preceding your next run are solid and see how that goes.
Your TM may also be off on its speed/distance.....and that's a whole other topic. As my earlier post for me 8:20 @1.5% feels like 8:05 on flat-ish road. However the road I run on is a mile loop that I can see all the way around so I can mentally gauge and "smell the finish"....where the TM is just this persistent spinning of my legs at a pace I'm not selecting by feel....so road wins in "ease" for me. (not minor -but also NO ventilation where I use TM....I am drenched by 1/2 way through WKO)
Your experience on TM may not mirror mine. oh...and I just thought of this....I found that I run very constant intervals -much like in Marathons etc...splits within 5 sec/mile....but I am NOT all that steady! my pace on road goes up and down cyclically by as much as 30sec/mile (never realized the significance of this)....so that is also why I hate TM-forced steady pace and I feel that..... may be the opposite effect for you.
Better wording may have been closer to Ambient and Body for Real and Perceived.
I probably used the word Perceived because I think (in cold weather particularly) that your trunk (and, I hope, extremities) can be perfectly warm but some part of your face and the whole breathing apparatus are exposed to the much colder ambient air temps. Because of this, I think the "there is no bad weather; there is only bad gear" cliche is a bit of an exaggeration. If you're running outside at 0-10 F (which I was doing before all this snow and wind started a few weeks ago), there is something different about that than running at 55, no matter how well dressed you are....at least there is for me. How much of that is mental is hard for me to say. I speak on that based only on my anecdotal experience, not scientifically.
I have read on several occasions your accounts of the overheating issues in high temps (and those of Matt S) and your accounts of what goes on make tremendous sense. Those apply to indoor running without sufficient cooling as well I am sure...but I had the issue of cold on the brain, not the issue of overheating.
Thinking about this ... yup, I don;t like the feeling of being cold on my face - whether skiing, swimming, or running - even if Im sweating during the workout. But there may be a physcial component. Breathing in 10F air (even though the nose is supposed to warm it -aren't we mostly mouth breathing during long/hard runs?) will certainly cool off the blood (all of which flows through the lungs on its way to the gut and muscles) more than breathing in 55F air. Then there's the effect of sweating, and the cold/windy air cooling us off more quickly than on a warm day.
I agree, even well-dressed and sweating, I'd rather not be running outside when it's below freezing.
Al, I looked at my garmin data and while the biggest incline is at the end of the run, it was rolling more than I remembered. Since I had abdominal surgery in early 12/13, all my runs have been indoors once I started walking, then running again for fear of slipping outdoors. I finally got cleared to do anything and everything and wanted to run out of doors more, but the stupid vortex has kept me in. So when the chance to run in the sun came with low winds, I took it.
However, Williams point is a very valid one. My face was frozen, it was real feel 11 degrees and I just am not used to that this winter. Combine that with the hard work, rolling terrain and wind and I guess that could have been the perfect "storm" and bumped up that HR.
Since I feel "behind" this OS I am ok with staying indoors in the crappy cold to hit my paces. BUT...tomorrow it will be sunny and 36. If the winds don't go nuts, I'm headed to the metro park to run in the real world!