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Save for a new tri bike vs Purchasing a powermeter

So I was recently given a $500 gift card to my LBS by a very generous friend.  My first thought was to use the money to jump start my fund for a new tri bike.  I'm currently riding a Felt road bike that I've "converted' to a tri bike.  A friend & fellow EN'er recently suggested that I consider using this money for a power meter. 

And now I'm a bit conflicted. I've been using a virtual power meter through TrainerRoad and have loved having a baseline for my training - my workouts have been so much more efficient (even if the power readings are inflated - at least they are consistent) & I think it would be great to have this tool as I train for IMCDA. I could probably swing this purchase in the next 30 days.  However, I'd also love to get a new tri bike - which I don't anticipate being able to get (even with this gift card) in the next 6 months.  This card would simply be a great jump start to the currently non-existent bike fund.

Thoughts on what makes more sense?

- David

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Comments

  • You seem to have answered your own question.. For me, I would go for the power meter first.  

    Virtual power is good, but once you go outside you have no power data.  Get the power meter and you have power everywhere.  It will change how you train indoors and outdoors.  Much bigger bang for your buck IMO.  It will change your life.. 

  • I think the power meter makes the most sense. I think for your first IronMan the power meter is invaluable. It takes all the guess work out of heart rate and RPE when racing. I got mine a few months ago and it has changed everything.
  • X3 on the power meter first. Although, if you plan on getting a tri bike down the road, I would consider what type of power meter you purchase so that you can easily swap it from your road bike to tri bike when that time arrives. Wheel based (power tap) or pedal based (garmin), would probably be easiest, since you do not know what type of bottom bracket (for quarq, etc) or crank (for Stages), you might end up with on the tri bike. Price difference between the power tap and garmin are very big...powertap being much less if this is an issue.

  • One wrinkle with the PowerTap is that the existing Felt is probably a 10 speed, and a brand new Tri bike could very well be 11 speed. This means messing with the cassette or hub body when switching the wheel.
  • Yes....my Felt is has 10 rings on it...so I'll need some guidance on how / what to buy based on that reality and Brad's comments.  This is all new territory for me...
  • PowerMeter is the way to go! I say go Crank-based as it is much more likely you want to switch your wheels than switching your crank image
    Furthermore IMHO a good training wheel is almost the exact opposite of a good racing wheel and I don't want to the racing wheel on my trainer during winter image
  • OK, nobody's argued the other side yet, so here goes.

    The fact that you are asking the question indicates racing triathlons/IM is not simply a bucket list/one-and-done ideas for you, but more of a long term, lifestyle choice. Also, it probably means you are interested in going as fast as possible - these are races, after all.

    The shift from a road bike - even one Frankenbiked into a serviceable steed for time trials - to a full on TT geometry "Tri" bike is like night and day. The key word there is geometry, When Dan Empfield invented the tri bike 25 years ago, he found that a steeper seat tube angle, coupled with some changes in the front end, would allow a much lower profile facing the wind, without losing too much power. You can't fully mimic that profile with a slack seat tube and a higher head tube. To say nothing of the aero cost of drop bars vs bull horns. You can expect a 1-2 mph difference on race day, without any increase in effort. Going from, say, 18 to 19 mph avg over 112 miles = dropping 20 minutes in your time.

    I raced scores of triathlons without a power meter, and dozens since getting one. I can't say I got any more successful - I've won a lot of races in my AG either way. A power meter makes it "easier", but did not make me faster. There's a heck of a lot more to IM execution than simply dialing in expected power numbers, and pedaling away. The difference between a tri bike and your set up is like the difference between using a wet suit, and not - multiplied x 2. Free speed, which a power meter will not give you.

    I say save your pennies, and enlist John Withrow to help you find a bargain tri bike on E-Bay; you may even score one with a power meter already installed.

  • I'll take the liberty of adding an addendum to Al's post: You can purchase an inexpensive powertap wired unit for under $300 on eBay and sell it when you're done for about what you have in it. If you get a bike now you can use it with a wheel cover for max speed. If you get a bike later, you'll know what kind of crank you need and you can start shopping for a crank-based system. I personally rode a lot of races before I bought a Quarq powermeter, and I really appreciate it now. In my estimatation, with what you know about pacing, you'll be okay, but the powermeter increases the probability of success on the ride. It helps me stay disciplined when the people net to me start charging up a hill, etc.
  • Al is right - a TT bike does in fact make you faster just by buying and riding it - period! Same applies to all super-sexy high end aerowheels, wheel-covers and BTA hydration systems!



    A PowerMeter is not meant to make you faster in first instance. A PowerMeter is a toy that helps you build a stronger ENGINE during training and controlling that engine during race-time.



    So in fact if triathlon is more than like a "I have to finish on IM in my life then I'm done here" you should first look out for a sweet nice TT queen. You can start training with virtual power which is pretty cheap and then step up to a real PM after some time.

    IMHO training with a PM gives you 80% of the benefit, racing with it 20% more because you simply HAVE control and readback about your power.

     

    If training with a PM does not make you faster by getting a stronger engine you are either already at the top of your physical abilities and you did train yourself super-duper-hard before already or you simply don't know how to train with a PM 

  • If you can figure out a power meter option that works with your bike now & your future tri bike, I would do the power meter now. You love tracking the data, and I think you'll want it when you race your IM. So, I vote to add a PM now...since that's the only option you can do before the IM. I think you'll love it for training & racing.
  • Now I'm totally conflicted....
  • Let me give you my gear history ...
    The first year I used my roadbike with an Aero-Clip-ON then I signed up for my first 70.3 and decided to buy a used but high quality TT bike in order to benefit from the geometry on the run. So I shopped a Scott Plasma CR1 for about 1000EU on eBay ... about 4 months out to my race I found a set of stupid cheap Token 80mm wheels for only 500EU so I added them too.
    At this time I wasn't even thinking about a PM even though now looking back that 500 bucks would have been a much better investment in a PM than those pretty aweful wheelset (but it was looking cool).
    Ok story goes on ... I did my 70.3 and also hit all my targeted times so everything was fine.
    The next season found another astonishing cheap set of superlight Zipp 404 tubulars for about 400EU so I thought these one would just be perfekt for "hilly" conditions cause they are so lightweight. Well they were light but they also were very squashy but anyhow these 404 still beat out my Tokens on any rolling-test I made.
    Ok here we have again another 400EU I spent on some wheels that really doesn't was worth it ...
    At the end of that season I sold both wheelsets and bought me a set of Vuelta Carbon PRO clinchers (because I just can't stand those stupid tubular tire exchanges any longer).
    Those wheels were superstiff and pretty aero but not lightweight at all. I added a Wheelcover for only 80EU and I'm sure this one was one of the fastest setups you can get for the money!

    That all being said I'd do it in the following stages:
    1) Get a TT bike with a solid running wheelset and just add a wheelcover on the back! (It will make you faster NOW and it will save you legs for the run)
    2) Get used to that bike and maybe get a professional bike-fit (I also did that twice and it's really worth it!)
    3) Get a PM
    4) If you wan't to be MORE aero get a aero-helmet!
    5) If you're still not enough aero and wan't more get a wide-with-rim front wheel (eg FLO60/90)
  • +1 on the order that Stefan suggests, all other things being equal. We're not anti power meter, just cognizant of the value it provides early in a racing career. My first season in tri, I also raced on a converted road bike. I'm glad I did not buy a TT bike before I ever did a triathlon, as I did not know at that point it would become an over-riding passion. But once that become clear to me - I had signed up for two HIMs and an IM that second year - I got fitted for a custom built frame from Quintana Roo, who at the time was the leading edge of tri-bike design. That was night and day, making that switch. When I added power down the road, my training became more focused, "easier" in the sense there was less wasted time/effort. Using a PM on race day is still a work in progress for me. I'm not sure it works any better (for me) than racing by HR did earlier in my career.

    Hundreds of EN trained athletes (probably 1000s) have successfully done 70.3 and IM using HR as a means to pace the bike. PMs are a refinement, not a requirement. Granted, they're fun if you're a data nerd, but sometimes getting caught up in all that data gets in the way of racing on a more visceral level, which to me is where the fun is. Meaning I like to test and control my body using my own internal resources.

    Ideally, one would stick a toe in the water like David is doing, going to war with the Army you have at the time. Then, if tri becomes an important part of one's life, get a tri bike with PM within your budget, all at the same time. Or, sequence the, bike first, PM next, when crank or wheel upgrades become an option.

    I stick with my original suggestion - put the $500 in a special savings pool, keep adding $$, and spring for a full set when you've got enough. 

  • This has been a super helpful thread for me - thanks for taking the time to give me your feedback. Lots of good, thoughtful information in here. As I talked with my bride, read through y'alls comments and evaluated our financial situation I've decided to use the $500 to jumpstart my bike fund. I figured that for IMCDA I'll continue to use TrainerRoad for a lot of my workouts...so while the power meter is virtual & probably overstated, it at least provides me with a consistent figure to structure my workouts around. I suppose an ideal situation would be that we're able to save enough to buy both the bike and the PM - but if not, I think the bike is a better, more bang for the buck, investment. If not, then I think bike, followed by PM, followed by wheels makes a lot of sense.
  • Sorry I'm so late to chime in here, especially since Al called me in by name. My thoughts, I agree that the tri bike would make you faster immediately and TE PM is more of a training tool, but I DEFINITELY use my PM like a robot to allow me to race better. But for me your question is really about optimizing the benefit of the 500 gift certificate.

    Assumption: you are inside EN and signed up for an IM and even asking this question because you are already hooked on the sport. So I assume within the next yr you will have a TT bike AND a Powermeter.

    Most LBS managers will match prices on PM's which means you can get a new Quarq Riken for around $1,200. You can probably find a used Quarq on eBay for around $850-900 give or take. With your gift card, the Quarq will be about $700 out of pocket. And if you get a GXP version, you can pretty much put it on any bike in the future as well. The benefit of doing this now is hat you could test on it and do your last RR on it and at a minimum, learn how to use it to help you ride steady for your race. If you save for a TT bike, you're not going to have it for this race anyways. Now when it comes time to get a new bike, you will get a MUCH better bang for your buck going the eBay route instead of buying from the LBS. Like a savings of thousands of dollars. You can get a really nice bike on eBay for around $1,300-1,600 and a really SICK Superbike for $2,200-2,600. But an entry level bike at your LBS is going to be around $3,000 give or take. And a Superbike at the LBS is out of the question, or you wouldn't have started this thread... So regardless of the type of bike you are looking to get, you will literally save thousands of dollars going the used route and the only difference will be the paint job.

    So the best way to maximize the use of that really generous gift is to have the LBS price match a Quarq or sell you one of their 'old stock' models at a great price if they happen to have one laying around, and use the gift certificate towards it. Then start saving your cash and then hit me up for some eBay advice after your race.
  • I agree 100% with John's comments about the bike. For the $500 gift card, PM... but you should get your bike from eBay. I personally saved about $3000 by purchasing a bike that was 2 years old off eBay. I could have never afforded my bike if i did not get it off eBay.

    I am going to add a not so fun wrench to this conversation... (No, this is not a sexy idea or a fun new toy) You are training for an IM... Food, drinks, body glide, and other things you need on a daily basis adds up and will require you to purchase them on a regular bases and in bulk I was dropping about $100 to $150 a month in these products. you can use the gift card for these every day things and save your money for the bike and PM on ebay. (Just a thought)
  • While johathan's idea may sound like a wrench getting thrown into the gears, it actually a great thought. I also saved a lot by getting a bike and powertap from eBay, there are a ton of little things that add up throughout the year and if you can find some items in your local bike shop like that and get them for free with that gift card you can save a lot.
    If you need nutrition, clothes, tubes, co2, etc, etc.

    Good luck
  • I'll echo Steve's comment on the wired option. I went this route and I have to say I've got no regrets. I bought a wired powertap from a buddy in my local club for $200. I rode it for a year on my road bike while I save up for a tri bike. It's been on my tri bike for the past two years and I am only now thinking of moving up to a better power meter (probably going to go with a Stages crank-based) so that I can get some better wheels. The only real disadvantage is that you're locked into a pretty basic rear wheel and you have to mess with undocking your head unit and syncing your ride data. If you can live with that, a wired setup is a great first step into training with power.
  • Okay....I wanted to provide an update on some two things I've learned on the last three weeks (this includes IM Cali 70.3)
    1) I think I suck at race execution on the bike - I'm beginning to think my 2:49 bike split / 1:48 run at IM Austin 70.3 last year may have just been dumb luck. When I got on the bike in CA my heart rate monitor wasn't working (it kicked on about 1.5 hours into the bike) - so...no power meter, no HR monitor left me with just RPE to guide my way. Which I think I did okay...but I felt really lost. I went out on Saturday and rode for four hours in really, really strong wind so my HR was running higher than normal and I wasn't quite sure how to adjust my ride to get into the right zone.
    2) As I mentioned above I'll probably do most of my training for CDA on the trainer - though I will try to get at least one of my long rides per week done outside. Without a power meter I'm going to run into the constant tension/confusion of trying to convert to HR / RPE when I'm outside vs. the TrainerRoad virtual power meter when I'm inside.

    That being said - I think I'm going to use the gift card towards the purchase of a power meter and then I'll ping some of you really smart people when I'm at a place to make a tri-bike purchase through ebay or some other scenario. As stated above - a power meter won't make me faster..but I do think it will help me train & race smarter and that has become more important to me in the last three weeks. People have asked me which of the three disciplines is my weakest event & I’ve generally responded that I feel equally weak & equally strong across all three. But I think now I’d say that it’s clear to me that the bike is my weakest event and I want to get better at it.

    So..now my question is what is going to be the best power meter for me. I don't need a Cadillac/Lexus version...a Honda/Toyota will do me just fine. Here are the requirements that I can think of:
    1) Must be able to easily transfer it, when Lord willing, I'm able to buy a tri-bike
    2) I use a trainer tire when indoors - not sure how that plays in except that I change my rear wheel frequently and I want the power meter for both indoor and outdoor use
    3) Must be able to use it with my Garmin

    And I know NOTHING about power meters so please use small words and speak slowly!

    Thanks
    - David
  • David - congrats on making a decision. Sometimes we go nuts trying to make the right one and I know that you've gotten advice from both sides. As for powermeter types, I am not an expert, but feel that I really did my due diligence when I pulled the trigger last year so have a good knowledge of the pros and cons of each type. Taking your scenario (budget, ability to transfer from road bike to Tri bike at some point) I would lean towards a power tap (rear wheel based powermeter). This is one of the less expensive ways to go and if you don't mind changing your tires (sounds like your are already) when you go from trainer to road, it makes sense. Also, the wheel should be able to be used on more than one bike, especially if you set up similar gearing on the two. The other option for the same price would be a used Quarq (crank based powermeter) that you can usually find on eBay. But this option isn't as easy to swap back and forth between bikes if this is your plan, and you'd want to make sure that the bottom brackets are compatible.

    Good luck!
  • iMO the device that would fit your requirements best is a crank based powermeter.
    SRM, Power2Max or Quark are probably too expensive as they will most likely require a new crank too.
    check StagesPower which is a crank-arm based device and the cheapest I know currently. You may be lucky and they habe one that fits your crank. You can use any ANT+ compatible display or even your iPhone via bluetooth.
  • Brad / Stefan - thanks for the response. One quick point of clarification - I'm not changing tires for my trainer. I've got a separate wheel with a trainer tire on it that I swap on and off. I don't have the mental fortitude to change a tire weekly!! I should have been more clear in my note. Sorry about that!
  • I'm no expert, but I would recommend what I have (cuz I like it and it works and it was (relatively) cheap!).  Get a PT wheel from wheelbuilder.com (through Coach Rich).  Slap on a gatorskin or whatever other bullet-proof tire you like for training and use it on the trainer and on the road (ie....you don't change tires/tubes except for races).   Those types of tires last a long time.  I routinely get 4000-5000miles on one before I start having any flats (other than running over a nail or something completely unavoidable like that). I don't use a "trainer tire"....just use the gatorskin all the time.   

    That said, I've never had a PM other than the PT, so advice from folks who've had crank based PMs and a PT too would be more "objective".  

    I move my PT wheel to my road bike when I'm not in race prep phase, and it is very easy to do too.  You can get the $90 wheelcover from wheelbuilder.com too, and have a disk in the rear....works great and very efficient use of $.  When you get the tribike, you're set for it....and can move it back to your road bike when you want.  

    My 0.02$.   

  • I agree with Jeff (and Brad). The PowerTap is the easiest power meter to use. It's pretty much idiot proof and bomb proof. I've had two (I have two different sized bikes, so I need a 650 and a 700 wheel) for 4+ years now. It's really,. truly as simple as get on the bike, turn on the head unit, and go. The hardest thing about it is changing the batteries every six months or so, and that takes about 4 minutes.

    Just an observation from years of watching this forum - I see questions like "My quark won't calibrate with my Garmin" or "My Stages magnet keeps falling off", but I never see questions about using a PowerTap. It just works.

    All solutions have forward compatibility issues. Like the bottom bracket mentioned for crank based, and the cassette mating for Power Tap (I just had my bike components all switched out for electronic shifting, and had to buy a new hub housing for the PT to handle the new sized cassette.)

    The two big things going for a PowerTap are (1) it's been around for a very long time, so we know that (a) all the bugs, kinks, quirks, and crashes have been discovered and dealt with and (b) its of high enough quality in terms of usefulness and customer service that it's been able to stay in business (2) it has a VERY competitive price, thanks to (a) the introduction of lower priced competitors and (b) our coach is a dealer, ask Rich for advice on getting Wheelbuilder special deal. Joule Head Unit for $99, Standard wheel with PT hub for around $750, and an aerojacket disk simulator for $99, and you're off off to the races.

  • Thanks Al.  David...you can use it with your Garmin (provided it's a 500/510 or 800/810 or 310XT/910XT).  

     

  • I also have a PT - it's perfect for me as it's totally idiot proof. Turn on my garmin XT310, spin the wheel to connect and all done.
    No re-calibration, simples. I had to change the battery after 1yr but even this was easy once I sourced the battery's off ebay (I used an inner tube to open the casing!). After that, again no re-calibrations needed.
    Only thing to consider is if you plan to have a training wheel and race wheels then make sure they have the same spoke number. Personally I just have the PT in my race wheel and use that all the time.
    Hate to say it but definitely one of the best investments I've made (along joining EN and Trainer road).
  • hey guys...finally had an opportunity to sneak away to the LBS today to price the PT. He gave me a price of $799 for a PowerTap Pro & $40 to install - he indicated that they would price match if I found it for less. When I got home to investigate other pricing options I found PowerTap Pro brings up a Cyclops product. I couldn't find a "PowerTap Pro" model anywhere on the http://www.powertap.com site.

    I'm also not 100% positive this cat knew a ton about power meters (sort of the blind leading the blind). When I look at the PT website the one that seems like the most reasonable fit for me is the PowerTap G3 ($789ish).

    Thoughts?
  • I would highly recommend you PM Coach Rich with the subject "power meter desired" or something like that and get him to give you a quote.  He's a dealer through Wheelbuilder.   They can put it in whatever wheel you want and you'll get a good price, service and they'll ship it to you.  I got mine through him, smooth and fast.  

     

  • Jeff - funny thing is that this whole thread was started because I was given a $500 gift card to my local bike shop. So while I could probably save some money ordering through Coach Rich...I still need to buy locally to use the gift card.
  • ahhh....yes, I remember that now.  I have a PT G3....I think cyclops is the manufacturer though.  

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