2014 Week #13 RUN THREAD
Last big push before you lay it all out there for the final test of the OS next week. Stay the course, hit your paces, and get ready to amaze yourself with how far you've come!
The coaches clue us in to why the OS plan has us focusing on fast before far and where we head from here, so take a few minutes to hit up the podcast in the upper right corner of your training page.
Reach out to the other OS members in this week's forum here if you have any questions about this last week of "work" or how to mentally prep for next week's TEST!
Happy Running!
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I'm hacking the plan this week with a goal of running the time trial in a local RRCA 10K this Saturday April 5.
Ran at the track this morning with friends. 6 x 400 with 200 RI's (too much rest). 1:55, 1:57, 1:56, 1:55, 1:52, 1:50 on a 2:02 goal. Feel really good.
This week's Wednesday run I'll run on Thursday. The Wednesday workout of 1 x 800 and 2 x 1600 (1-mile) feels like too much volume two days before the 10K. I was thinking of 400's or maybe 300's with 100 RI's.
What are your thoughts for the Thursday workout?
Thanks!
I followed up today’s ride with a brick run. Plan called for 50’ at MP with some strides. The bike ride was a killer so I cut back the run to 30’ with a goal of going out at easy pace and coming back a little faster at whatever pace that ended up being. I ended up feeling better than I thought on the run but kept it at 30’ anyways.
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/471891690
Yesterday, the plan called for 21 miles, 6 @ LRP, then 12 @ MP, finishing with 3 @ HMP. The reason I don't do marathons is … I can not tolerate runs longer than 2:20/16 miles. I really did try to do the full run. I brought along three bottles full of Infinit, a flak of EFS gel, some shot bloks, parked at the confluence of trails where I could do three out n backs. I did the first four miles right @ LRP, the next two started getting towards MP, the following 6 miles were right @ the pace I plan on running the marathon (about 50 seconds slower than my "Daniels' MP, then I started going about 20 sec/mile faster for the next two miles … and started questioning the wisdom of going any further than 16 miles. So I stopped. I'm not worried about the marathon, it's for participation, not time, and I do have an Ironman 10 weeks later. So I want to be able to get in good cycling wkos over the next three months, except for the five days surrounding the marathon.
If anyone ever hears me musing about signing up for a stand alone marathon, please talk some sense into me. The difference between going 3:34 vs 3:54 is just not worth running more than 30 miles in a week, or 17 miles at a time, except for the 2 times a year when I seem to be able to "go to the well" for an IM, when I'm aiming for 4:10.
Paul has decades of competition experience, so he's worth listening to. Me, I take a different view - not a good idea to do anything harder than some LRP running between now and the race, except for doing 4-8 strides at the end of any run workouts you do. You've already max'd out your TP/IP allotment for this week, doing those 400s/300s on Thursdaywon't help you on Saturday's race, and will only generate fatigue you'll have to recover from, maybe not in time.
Al I recognize as you do that as the years go by (I'm 59) that fatigue takes a longer toll and more recovery time.
I couldn't get motivated by the bike 5x5 today, so I did an hour of yoga before work. If it does not storm tomorrow at 5am I'll hit the track for some short (200's or similar with short RI's) intervals. If it rains then i'll do a toned down 5x5 on the bike.
Friday will be an off day except for some yoga to stretch.
Thanks again.
Prof. Jenks claims he was looking forward to his taper, which supposedly starts this week. Things kicked off with a supposed 60 minute track workout, the most intense one yet.
I went 8.7 miles in 73 minutes, and that was cutting the warmup short by 5 minutes, and doing no cool down. It was impossible to wrap my head around the thing in anticipation, so I just did the intervals one at a time, only a little faster than written:
4 x (1200, 400, 2 x 200) @ TP, with "full recovery". That worked out to 400 after the 1200, 200 after the 400, and 1-200 after the 200s. That's a total of 8K done @ 10K pace. My TP is 7:17, but I ended up doing the 1200s in 7:16/01/05/06; the 400s in 7:09/6:55/59/7:01, and the 200s in 7:04/04, 6:48/47,6:47/?, 6:20/19. I wasn't trying to go any faster the last 200s, it's just a reflection of the strength and high end endurance this marathon hack has produced.
I'm hardly ever motivated "by" a workout. Usually, I'm scared of them. What I'm motivated by is the potential for embarrassment (in my eyes, or others) in a race. Eventually, the training takes hold, and the wkos get "easier". Usually about the end of the OS. Then the whole thing seems to ratchet up again, for 8-12 weeks of Race Prep.
@ Pat...3x on Al and Paul's advice. Take it EZ before your race.
@ Al...well said about the differences in training for a stand alone marathon and an IM run. I'm with you - after 2:30 I just lose interest. Besides, you're gonna have a unique experience at Boston this year anyway so who wants to rush thru it.
@ Paul...nice drills. I can never find time to do that stuff.
I'm on my 2nd week of 6 runs/week. So far so good. I did a 3 mile brick yesterday @ 8:48 pace after 2 x 15' @ 260 watts on the bike (OUCH). This morning I ran 6 miles with 2 mile WU, 2 x 1 mile at 7:03 pace with 2% incline (1 mile rest intervals with 60" walking then the remainder at 8:48 pace). Felt pretty good. But now I'm getting a scratchy throat and sniffles.
Might be time to take EZ for a few days.
Track Thursday early, barring storms. Else bike trainer 4 x 5.
Sorry I've been incognito...crazy week at work.
I totally get it where Al is coming from, but in contrast, I'm hoping to make something of this marathon we're both doing, so perhaps that was where a difference in perception was. I'm really feeling like race prep. And we're using somewhat different approaches, in that I know that I've got to get a few really long runs in to do well in a marathon.
Last Saturday was the last really long long run, as for Al. To be honest, I am not sure that the run written as he described is even possible by mere mortals unless they are well rested, and no one is well rested 3 weeks out from a marathon. My plan called for 20, and I ended up doing 22 because of the route There were a few MP segments to remind me what it was like, but they were short, and it was mostly just somewhat quicker than my EP. The route was chosen to have a 1.5 mile gentle slope that I went up and down several times.
On Patrick's advice, I dropped the third bike from last week and this, so Sunday was just as easy run. Maybe I posted this before....(it's been a rough week)...but that was kind of a zombie run. It ended back at soccer fields, and even one of my very bad running buddies (who is kind of a football guy) sent me a text saying I looked like crap.
Monday was interval day again. The weather was fine except for the 20 mph wind with 40 mph gusts. It was a 4 x 1 mi TP day. I hit them all in the 6:30-6:35 range despite two of them being straight into the wind for most of the way. Of course, this meant that they were more effort than a TP mile normally would be. I was very pleased, but still pretty tired.
Tuesday, I hit the bike. 4 x 5 min at 26X watts plus one more set of 3 x 1' at that intensity. Trying to balance getting the work in vs getting some recovery in between runs.
Today was tempo run day. 9.5 mi total with a 6 mile tempo segment in the middle. I felt a bit tired still at the beginning but loosened up and felt good by the end. 6:53, 7:05, 6:41, 6:37, 6:42, 6:38.
Tomorrow is another easy run in the morning or maybe lunch time. One more bike session that will be either Thurs or Fri, depending on how my evening breaks.
Consistency is huge and key. No doubt about it.
That said, there are also occasional times when "pulling the plug" is the wise thing to do if you're on the edge or really tired. Getting in a hole can cause even worse problems. I think that distinguishing between just not being motivated one day and having a good physical reason to pull back is an important skill. More often than not, you just gotta get on the horse and ride, but knowing when a lack of mojo really means something is an important skill, too.
Overall 6.21 miles in 45:10, 7:16/mi avg. HR avg 164 max 192, avg cad 182. http://connect.garmin.com/activity/472497180
3x7'(4') @ 6:53, 6:44, 6:28
Track run. 7 x 400 and 4 x 200. 2:00 goal.
01:54.5
01:57.5
01:59.7
01:55.9
01:56.4
01:57.9
01:57.6
00:53.6
00:55.1
00:54.2
00:53.6
Yesterday it was 40's and sunny, I felt a lot better (still have lingering junk in my head) and took to the local rolling metro park for the run. I had a really nice run. I didn't know what to expect having 2 really slow 5k tests this season and the WO was to run an 800, and 2x1 mile at estimated 5k pace. I ran the 800 at a nice 7:42. Happy. Took the full 5' rest and decided for the mile repeats to shoot for sub 8's. Ended up with 7:45 and 7:40. Very pleased with this result. BUT...this is where I need the WSM help!
How should I use this info to plan for my OS run test/half mary race on 4/12? I have been training at a vdot I didn't test too...a tick below 39 with out much problem. Should I just stick with that estimate for the half? It is a rolling course too. I haven't raced a half mary since this race last year. I feel like my run is finally starting to come back to me (late start to OS this year)
Any input would be greatly appreciated!
Pacing the HM requires two separate pieces of data. First, what pace can you hold in repeats such as you describe, as well as slightly slower, longer ones, often called "tempo runs". AND, how far have you been going on your weekly long runs. If you have done 2-3 runs of 1:45-2:00 in the last six weeks before the race, then it's probably OK to then look at your interval paces for guidance in the HM. If you have not been running that far on a regular basis, then you'll need to go slower (and expect to hurt anyway, no matter how slow you go.)
OK, assuming you;ve been good and done the long runs, what pace should you attempt as you follow the wiki guidance for HM pacing? The paces in the workout you describe equate to a 42-3 VDOT. But then, many of us train at a faster VDOT (1-3 points) than we are able to race the longer distances. The pace you choose as your race pace on 4/12 depends on a several other factors, as well, IMO. First, how experienced are you at running HMs, or even 10Ks? How experienced are you at doing interval and tempo workouts leading into those races? How much of a gambler are you - how willing are you to risk failure, in the quest to learn your current limits? If you've got a long history of knowing your capability based on your training times, and you have a tolerance for risk, then aim for the faster end of your training times, meaning shooting for a HM time for 1:45-6; if you have little experience at the distance, and/or want to make sure you are able to run well the whole way, then shoot for 1:49-50. If you haven't done the long runs, well, you're looking art 1:53-4 (and possible cramps during the race, very sore thighs afterwards.)
I hope this gives you a framework to help you think through how you want to approach the race. A good way this weekend to test out your planned pace would be to run 4-6 x 1 mile @ your planned race pace with 2' recovery jog in between each. If you can hold that through the whole set (it should be hard work, but doable), then you have confirmation you can do it on race day.
Beautiful morning for running, sunny and 55F. I went 8.5 mi in 75', doing 4 x 1 mi (4') @ MP. Compared to my interval workout on Tuesday, both days were about the same mileage, within 2 minutes of each other, and each were 86.1 TSS, with an IF of 0.8 and 0.786. But the interval workout, 8K worth of 1200s, 400s, 200s @ 7 minute miles, seemed far harder than 4 miles @ 7:47. Shows the limitations of TSS in grading/comparing workouts.
Unofficial (Garmin) time. 10K 50:08. Bump of 1 point in vDot. Splits 8:09, 8:00, 8:06, 7:59, 7:57, 7:57 + 1:47.
Arkansas Capital City 10K
All RIGHT! Steady, strong finish,Pat
Pat - you smoke it. I ran slower for 5K this morning! But it was a mud run and I let my daughter set the pace. We were just under an hour but that included about 5 mins looking for my daughter's shoe which came off in the first mud pit. We crawled through mud, went over at least a dozen wooden barriers of various height and construction, waded through a swamp trail for about 200 yards in CHEST deep nasty water, carried sand bags, went over several rope web barriers, and of course crawled through more mud under netting, pulled ourselves forward while hanging upside down on ropes, and then went into some more mud pits. It wasn't fast but I am feeling some muscles I haven't used in 30 plus years. I had no zip in my legs when I biked later, and my wrists and shoulders are sore. Can I count that as a crossfit exercise?
Overall 5.84 miles in 40:01, avg 6:51/mi. HR avg 164, max 182, avg cad 177, avg vert oscillation 9.8cm, avg ground contact 219ms, avg stride length 1.33m.
Trish - great advice from Al. My only additional remark is that the longer the separation in distances between the test and performance, the greater the potential VDOT split. The reason is that it's just that much harder to be "equally in shape" for (e.g.) a marathon and a 5K. Usually, a 1-1.5 VDOT difference between 5K and 13.1 is a reasonable guess for a modestly experience half-marathoner. However, if I understand right, you're a naive 13.1 runner and you've not tested at 5K as well as you've run 1 mile intervals. To me, this suggests that you want to err on the side of caution. You say you had 5K at VDOT 39, and Al points out your training has been in the 42-43 range for the shorter intervals.
If I were in your shoes, I would run the first half of the race at the VDOT 40 pace. After that first half (or so), you can reassess, and see if you can pick up the pace a little bit. The worst case scenario by taking this relatively cautious approach is that you leave a little bit on the table. But prove that you did by kicking butt in the last 5K! If you can really pick it up in the last 5K (by more than 5-8 sec/mile), to me that is definitive proof that you might have left something on the table. However, if you are too aggressive, the downside risk is considerably worse, both in slowing down and in the experience of the last few miles.
Again...just my $0.02!