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This weeks modification

Hey coach, so I put together this weeks training and I'm assuming you can look up what you already have for me.

Mon: R: 100' (Thursdays workout). Tues.: S:60' (Fridays swim), B:60 (computrainer class due to bad rain, mountains simulation, R:35' (optional). Wed.: R: 45' (Tuesdays run). Thurs. : Saturdays workout. Fri.: Sundays workout. Sat. Rest.

The remainder of the month till my 1/2 IM on May 4th looks like this:
Sun.: R: (Thursday workout)
Mon.: S/R (Tuesday workout)
Tues.: B/R (Saturday workout)
Wed.: S (Monday workout)
Thurs.: B (Sunday workout)
Fri.: S/R (Hey what do you know, that stays the same. But I will do a smaller version on 5/2)
Sat.: B (Wednesday workout)

So let me know what you think. Also, how much time should I take to recover after the 1/2?

Thanks again
Eric
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Comments

  • Eric - thanks for the notes. That's a pretty stacked week. I'm a little worried about what that Tuesday run done on Wednesday means directly before the Saturday and Sunday rides. You may need to cut the intensity out of that run so you can successfully wrap up your week. At least keep it in mind please.

    The rest of the schedule looks great! Really impressed with how you put that together.

    The amount of time you take to recover is directly related to the amount of effort you expend in the race. It really comes down to how much of the run you run at a really hard pace. The longer you run, the harder it gets, the more time you'll need. At the very least you should plan on taking Monday off and going easy on Tuesday and Wednesday with the goal of being back on it by Thursday.
  • Patrick, I got ya on Wednesday, I will just do Wednesdays 35' run. I really want to have a good couple of days on the bike. Today I did both swim bad bike but the swim, which was first, fell apart around 2400m so I just wrapped it up with a 100 cd. I will take your advice about time of after the 1/2, you know best.

    Also thanks for the compliment on putting it together. Like I said your coaching is in line with how I have coached myself for the last 3 years.
  • So I only got 3.5 hrs in today. The legs were pretty smoked due to some hills and a lot of wind. I will run tomorrow after the ride.
  • Know your limits. Do yourself a favor and start tomorrow's ride stupid easy. Like the first hour to 90 minutes is just noodling along looking at the sights. Then start to dial it up.
  • Hey coach, hope Easter was good to you and your family. Just wanted to make sure of the changes this week. Today I will be doing Wed run (as yesterday I did my 110' run) or should I just chill today? Tomorrow I will be doing Sat. Workout which is 1 hr swim/4 hr bike/1 hr run. Wed I will be doing Mon. Wkot, which is just swimming, then thurs. I will be doing another long ride ( the 1/2 IM bike course) to prep for next month. Then Fri I will be doing The Fri run. Taking off Sat. Your thoughts?
  • Ok so no run today, we were too busy at the firehouse. I might have to cut some tomorrow down depending on how busy we are tonight.
  • Can you get me an update on where you are with this week? Sorry for the delay!
  • No worries, I forgot you had Boston. How was it? I am not sure if you ran it or just supported it. I was going to send you something tonight anyway, I just wanted to make sure I collected my thoughts. Ok, so here it is, I did the "Big Day" on Tues when I got off of shift. Not a bad night but not a restful night either. I had a Mcdonalds bacon egg and cheese before my swim, so I really started the day off crappy. Anyway, I did the swim and completed 3300yd after which I drove home, walked the dog, ate a PB&J, 1 5hr energy shot, got the bike ready and headed out (T1-1hr). The bike felt great. I stayed most of the time in the small ring but the crotch took a beating toward the end. Nutrition wise I had 55mg Sodium/hr., 24oz of water with 1.5 scoops of nutrition from 3 FUEL/hr. and 1/2 of a Bonk Breaker bar. T2 was only 5 minutes, I had 8oz water, and 510mg of sodium. 30 minutes into the run, I hit the wall bad and stopped. Now, in that running time frame, I did not have any water so I feel that was a big problem on my end. I did an out and back thinking I could just take hits of water when I got back. That was no bueno. After about 5-10 minutes, my legs felt better, but I was not in the mood anymore. That and the last part of the bike, and whole run was in the rain.

    I ended up taking off the next day and today just swam. My swim sucked, I just felt bla. I got in 2500yds, but it took 1000 just to get into it and by 1900 I was loosing focus. So I am thinking that I am just going to bike tomorrow, and run on Sat. so I can see if I can recharge the batteries or something. I don't know if I am over training or just tired from the big day, but I still have a 1/2 IM on the 4th so I really need to figure this out. Whats your thoughts?
  • Not sure overtraining, but I'm sure that the big day put the peak on the cumulative fatigue that you've earned us far. Nothing wrong with taking another easy day or two to make sure you can process it all. Do yourself a favor and avoid any super high-end intensity or the goals associated with that type of workout. Sleep is also critical.

    That said, there's some serious red flags for me re the nutrition around your big day and I'm not just talking about the part about McDonald's. We do not, repeat do not recommend bonk breaker bars. I'd really prefer you something else like a power bar if you need something solid. BB bars do not have enough sodium in them.

    I am also curious about your choice of fuels. I hope you have a note from a doctor as to why you need to eat something like 3FU3L -- 20 g of protein an hour and 5 g of fat an hour is a recipe for race day disaster. Is there a reason why you're not using the Ironman perform product? Or Gatorade endurance?

    In short I think you got the right amount of calories in, he just didn't get enough fluid and he got a lot of the wrong macronutrients. All of which can really combine to make the run portion of your big day really suck. Let me know about those nutrition choices so we can get this ironed out before your race.

    As for the race on the fourth, I want to make sure that you're rested. Given the next week is really leading to your race, I want you to take it easy for at least one more day before we close this out. Please let me know if you're heading into the half iron on a taper week via a half iron plan or if you were doing this along the way to another race.
  • Hey Patrick, I appreciate your input on this as I have been only doing this for a few years and mainly going off of my own research to reach my goals. Today was a simple ride, not too bad. I only rode for an hour and kept my power in Z2,3. Tomorrow I have to work but will run before shift starts (probably 5 or 6 mi. with some speed work in there).

    As far as the Big Day, yeah I never eat at McDonalds, but I knew if I went home first, it would have been a really long day. My family was even shocked at me going there. Sleep wise, I have been getting 8 hours since Tuesday, so I am feeling more recovered and today it showed on the bike (no real fatigue/soreness).

    In regards to my nutrition, that was a long journey that started my second year. I was using Hammer products and found that I could not get past 50-60 mi on the bike without bad stomach issues and cramping. I switched to using Salt stick (about 2/hr) and found they fixed the cramping, and after trying different products, 3fuel was the best result. I have thought about going to Infinite, but I am worried about switching right now. Currently I only put in 1 to 1.5 scoops in my bottle and that seems to work. I am not familiar with other IM performance products so if you can educate me that would be great. As far as Gatorade, I used that as well but had the same stomach issues as with the Hammer products. I am not a gel guy either (unless I am really needing some sugar). I found it gets me in a roller coaster situation (sugar wise) with the highs and lows and again gets my stomach all jacked up. The BB I have used for the last 2 yrs just so I can put some solids in my stomach to slow the digestion process down and get something different in my system besides just liquid nutrition. Another thing I usually do is eat 2 of the frozen PB&J sandwiches (found in the frozen section at the grocery store). One in T1 and one at the special needs bag (if I'm doing a full) or just one at T1 for a 1/2. I also would normally slam a small cocoanut water in T2 (and at the half way point in the marathon for the full).

    Having said all that, I would love some feedback on the nutrition side as well as the sodium intake side of things. Currently l'm taking in about 600mg Na. I thought I was getting enough sodium in, but maybe not. I will say that at the end of any long day, I am quite salty. I like making sure that coming out of the bike I have hydrated enough and got my nutrients to get me going for the run. I do like using the 5hr energy shots at different points along the race but only use them for 1/2 or full IM distance races. If you want we can do another conference call because I think we might develop carpel tunnel if we keep typing these long replies. LOL
  • Also, this 1/2 IM is not my A race. I have my first A race in the end of June at AC Challange, then 5 weeks later at IM Boulder.
  • Eric, thanks for all of the detail. I can appreciate your dynamic schedule and I like how you're focusing in on the sleep of the rest. And I know what you mean when you say: going home first instead of McDonald's would've made it a long day. :)

    There is a ton of information on nutrition in the wiki and you can dig in there on your own. Everything that we do starts from your sweat test dummy work backwards from there as the sweat test determines how much fluid you need and by proxy about how many calories you'll be getting in.

    It seems to me that you fallen into the common trap of looking at your nutrition as a calorie problem and not a fluid problem. okay to be fair it's really a combination problem, but most people do what you're doing.

    The biggest issue with one to 1 1/2 bottles an hour is that you are most likely 12 to 18 ounces off (per hour)what you will need across your day. At the end of a five hour bike that's roughly 90 ounces of fluid short.

    What you can eat in training and what you should eat on race day are two very different things. One of the reasons we use products like Ironman Perform is that it's located on the course and easy to find versus carrying six different bottles, two different energy shots, three bars and a Partridge in a pear tree. :)

    In other words while you have managed to solve your calorie problem, you've created a process that is virtually unsustainable in a race.

    Do me a favor, the next time you're in the car for an hour download them play that nutrition podcast with Jesse from the core diet. That will give you some really good insights on what we think of as race fuel and why. Then we can start from there. At the very least I want you to try the perform product to see how it treats your stomach.
  • Okay ok, I give in. Today I rode the 1/2 IM course and really paid attention to my nutrition. I felt great for the first 30 but after that....well I didn't feel bad I just started to lose focus. My cadence dropped to about 83 from 95, my watt avg fell from 168 to 160. And my speed fell from 17.5 to 16.7 avg. The the "Pear tree" came into play. I had so much crap in my pockets that when I went to reach for the cue sheet, it was gone. No big deal, I said to myself. I go to reach for my salt...that fell out too. Now I'm about 20 miles out, not the best clue on how to get back, and NO SALT. Funny how after your last reply and my reading a bunch of stuff on the wiki last night that this all comes around. So with this race coming in 6 days, what recommendations do you have?

    Oh to finish the story, I pulled off, got some gatorade at a conveinence store, regrouped and made it back. I just really made sure I stayed in the "Box" so as to not cramp up or anything. I just made lots of wrong turns and backtracked a lot till I finally found a street I recognized.
  • Eric -

    Making changes within six days is no easy task, but I think you realize the challenge you're facing. The switch to power bars (1/2 per feed cycle) vs bonk breakers should be a nonissue. The big challenges drinking what's on the course and making sure that will work for you. Do some research on the race and do your best to get your hands on it this week just to try it. I don't want to take you out of the frying pan and put you into the fire in regards to that.

    I would still keep the salt external and on the hour marks to keep you safe. Again, the nutrition section of the wiki has a lot of great information on how to plan it out.

    Let me know what you think!!
  • Hey Patrick, sorry it took so long to get back with you. I've been real busy over the last few days. So yeah, I am going to change up my fuel, looking now for where I can get some IM perform in a store, any suggestions? I also agree that too much change too fast can be bad. So I will do some more research and make more changes over the next couple of weeks. We're still 9 wks out of CAC and 13 wks out of IMB. This is a good thing. As for this weeks training, I'm just doing some light to medium training this week and will do what you prescribed for next week with the couple days off then build to where I am back at it by Thurs or Friday.

    How does this sound to you?
  • Eric, training plan is good! You can order online, see the links under Store /TeamDiscounts and go to allstarnutrition, etc!!
  • Okay, also can you educate me on the different versions of the IM Perform. There is some with C2, what is this and is this a big difference?
  • Eric - I only know of one type, the type that's being used on the course which is typically without any additives such as "C2". You can find what's going to be on the course at your next race by going to Ironman.com and search in there. Hope that helps.
  • Hey Patrick, hope that the camp was a good one. I want to talk to you about my 1/2IM I did this past Sunday. I redid my nutrition (knowing its not the best policy) and well, it didn't fail me, I failed it. But lets start with a positive. I PR'd my half, so I am happy about that. Now to business

    I had a great swim, did my nutrition as prescribed. Got on that bike, and started out great. I started with my liquid nutrition, and 1/2 a PB, also some salt sticks (2). Then 30' in the bike I had a gel (hammer), and I was not happy. I hate those gels, but I had a bunch at the house so I thought, "well why go buy a bunch of PB gels, when I have so many here." Now I know why I should have.
    Back to the bike. I had a very good bike. I stayed in my zone 175 P2 but my nutrition was off. After 3 gels, I could not do any more. Also I lost one of my bars out of my back pocket (I had it there because I was getting ready to eat it). So from mile 30 on, I just had my salt sticks and my liquid nutrition. I think you can see where this is going.

    I got off of the bike and still felt good. Until a quarter mile in the run then all hell broke loose. Legs cramped, bloating, energy loss. After mile 8 I finally had enough salt in me to run a straight mile w/o cramping, but then I had not energy. It just made for a crappy way to finish what started out to be a great race.

    So I figured some stuff out...because thats what you do when you walk as much as I did (LOL). I am carrying way too much stuff on the bike. I am going to talk with the Infinite ppl tomorrow, and see what I can do. I would like to just be able to drink fluid and have 1/2 a PB per hour on the bike. When I get to the run, use salt, PB gels and water. Or IM perform, if its Boulder. What are your thoughts?
  • @eric....you posted at 7:57pm...so probably right at the time I was posting...sorry for that!!!

    I think your plan with infinIT for AC is okay, but, remember they don't want you to concentrate it...so you will need to do a sweat test (see Wiki / Nutrition) to determine how much fluid you need an hour. Then add water to what you plan to drink via infinIT (if you have 24oz of infinIT but you need 32 oz fluid, the other 8oz is water). I am not sure if you can carry 6-10 bottles on your bike at once...or if you can put some in a special needs bag.

    At IMBoulder, you can use on course stuff so you only need two bottles of Perform (aid station every 10 miles) and you can put you food into a Bento Box (Fuelbelt sells them, we have Team Discount) and / or your back pockets.

    Worthwhile also looking at your bike file / VI to see if you were a bit aggressive on bike relative to your race simulations, etc.

    Looking forward to your update after Camp Week(end). Have fun!!

    P
  • Hey Patrick, good morning. I hope that IMTx was great for you and the team. Beech Mountain Metric was Awesome! Tough but awesome all the same. I don't know if that is on your routes for your BRM camp, but its worth the climb. Anyway, after our conversation I felt much better and assured about the weekend and doing the "Big Camp" in the mountains.

    So I did not do the swim due to time on Friday, but I'll be making it up by doing it today. So my camp started then on Saturday and did the metric. With 62mi. of road and 7800ft of climbing (most of which was in the last 10mi) I felt that I would make the time that was put before me for the day. I ended up finishing it in 5:38 with only using 2 rest stops to top off bottles/bathroom breaks, but I stopped 3 times on the final assent to rest. When I got to the top, my legs were toast so the run was not in my future for that day. My goals for that day were simple. I called it the "3 C's." No Cramping, stay Consistent on your power and Complete it. For the most part I was successful, but my power was not as consistent as I wanted. I surged too much in some of the descents and the few flats (although I didn't realize it). Nutrition wise I was very pleased using the IM Perform(2scps/btl), 1/2 powerbar/hr and 2 lava salt/hr (255mg of sodium ea.). But you have to realize also that I only did 4 bottles of nutrition during the entire ride. However the morning was so cold (31F) that I didn't really start sweating until about 40mi into the ride. I was peeing quite a bit because after my first hour I realized I have to drink more or else I will pay toward the end. That night, I ate a good meal with carbs and protein...Lasagna.

    Then had some ice-cream and went to bed by 9pm. The next day I was up and on the bike by 9am and rode 40mi with 3000ft of elevation in 3hrs. After which I ran for 30' in the hill. I had to cut the day short due to our check out time. Having said that, I still was pleased with my performance and was more consistent with my power that day.

    The final day was the long run and still felt good all things considered. My run started slow but by mile 3 I found my pace and felt real good. 90 min. in the run, I stepped up my pace and finished strong with a time of 2:20:02 and dist. of 15mi. That put me at a 9:30 pace which is my Z-1 close to Z-2 pace. Legs were shot by then. On the run I did IM perform (1 mouthful/10min. 4-8oz btls total in my running belt), 1 powerbar gel/hr and 2 Lava Salts/hr. Towards the end my hams were getting tight but I feel that was off of my increased pace and total fatigue of the cumulative camp. I took Tuesday off but had to work and fought a house fire that night, so I took Wed. off as well.

    Today, I will do my big swim, and bike for 60-90min. Tomorrow, I will do a run for 80' then Sat I have off from work so I'll make that a big day with a long bike and run brick.

    To answer what you stated above, I am going to do a sweat test tomorrow, as I have not done one in a while and its going to be hot. Also I have a bento box and use it on certain rides where I will be needing a Sherpa.
    So that's it, what are your thoughts on the whole thing, advice or whatever?
  • Eric - I think he did a great job that weekend. Our expectations are always high, but you did a really good job of making good work of the entire weekend. The fact that you were able to find your groove and be strong over the second half of that run is a solid indication of not only your fitness, but also of your ability to pace and your nutrition. ^THAT^ IS WHY WE DO THESE KIND OF WEEKENDS, SO MUCH TO LEARN AND SO LITTLE TIME. I FEEL PRETTY GOOD ABOUT ALL THE BOXES THAT YOU CHECKED OFF.

    MOVING FORWARD I SUGGEST YOU REALLY START GETTING ON THE NUTRITION RIGHT OUT OF THE GATE. YOU KNOW IF IT'S COOL, THE IRONMAN MARATHON WILL GIVE YOU NO BANDWIDTH TO MAKE ANY MISTAKES THERE. ONWARDS !!!


    Ps - sorry for the all caps!!
  • Hey Patrick , hope the week is being good to you. I meant to update you on the weeks schedule but I totally forgot. So I thought I would update you on this week and next weeks deal and see what you thought.
    Sun: rest, Mon: Run 60' (which I ended up doing 7 miles), Tues: Swim 60' (I did a wu:400' ms:12x100(5")). My back started hurting after that which was about 30' in so I stopped. We'd: B75' R60'. I did a sweat test on the run and lost 3lbs., I was a little shocked at that. Thurs: S60' (wu:400, ms1-500, ms2-20x50(5") z3-4, ms3 4x125 (25 z-4,100 z2), ms4-500, cd 100). Fri: R-150' (60' z1, 70' z2, 20' z3). Sat: R50' (z2, with 8x1' strides), B 180' (3x15' z4), sun: rest.
    Mon: B(FTP test), R45'. Tues: S60', wed: B120', Thursday: R(rr 180'), Fri: S(open water 60'+), Sat: tour de mountains century ride 9100ft elev.)
    I am starting to feel the fatigue setting in and I'm getting that cranky forgetful feeling too. So what's your words of wisdom?
  • Eric - I suggest you bike only on Sat, no run. Monday swim only, then FTP on Tuesday...rest of the week looks ok. As for fatigue, feel free to shorten bike rides to just main set only + a little bit. No more than 75' say. Of course we want good sleep, etc. How are you doing outside of the workout window in terms of self-care?
  • Hey coach, so I have to throw an audible in today. I was on a 4 alarm fire for more than 7 hrs last night, so I only got about 2 hrs of sleep in the last 2 days. So I'm taking today off to rest. I figure that fighting a fire that long and all that it entails will do for today. As far as the doing the FTP test on Monday...I have to work on Tuesday so my only day is Monday or possibly Wed. What do you think?
  • Let's do a Wed test so you can swim today as planned and "rest" tomorrow at work. Hopefully it's a quiet day!
  • Hey Patrick, I sent you an email, sorry but I already did my test. No major change.
  • No worries! You and I just need to get into a better rhythm! :-)
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