Latex vs Butyl Inner Tubes
In the Carbon Clincher vs Tubular Wheel thread the suggestion that latex inner tubes & good set of tires is the going recommendation. Why? What makes Latex better than Butyl? Does Latex loose air / prone to flat easier than Butyl?
Suggestions on a good brand of inner tube, latex and/or butyl? I would rather spend an extra $ than have marginal tubes.
Any advise welcome. I tried to search the forums, but search does not seem to be working tonight.
-Mike
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However, there are a few catches you need to consider when using latex.
1) They can be a pain the butt to install. You need to use talcum powder to make it easier to install and so you don't pinch them and create a hole.
2) Only use a room temp air with an air pump to fill them up. Don't ever use a CO2 cartridge. CO2 will freeze the latex and cause micro tears in the material which is almost a guarantee for a flat.
3) Don't carry latex tubes as a replacement for a flat on race day (see reasons #1 and #2). Carry only butyl on race day.
Mike,
What makes it better, just less rolling resistance so latex will save you from pushing extra watts to get the same speed. I can't find my tire chart right now but one other article I found online stated 1.2-2.8 watts saved per tire. You've done the OS work and taken the time to ensure your bike is aero this is just one other way to maximize your speed on race day given your effort.
Yes the latex will loose air faster but pump up the tires in the morning and you will be fine. Keep a butyl spare in case of an on course flat, co2 air loss is even worse. You will need to ensure that you install the latex tubes properly, some find issues but I've never had a problem.
I don't have a good suggestion for brand I usually just buy what's at my LBS.
Butyl for training and as your spare tube, latex for racing.
x3 on what's already been said. I do find that installing the latex tubes requires a little more care. I had throw several away as they exploded as I got near 110psi! Avoid using a tire lever, use some talc to make sure it can slide easily, etc.
I have ordered mine from trisports.com: http://www.trisports.com/vittoria-tube-latex-51.html
But, some LBS carry them or you can order them from whatever online source you like. This is the only tube I have ever seen.
FWIW, I can definitely tell a difference when I switch from my training tire/butyl tubes (Gatorskin, etc.) to a race tire like Vittoria open corsa with latex tube. It just rolls better, smoother, less road chatter.....very nice feeling on race day and the last RR.
One thing to add. In the past, I got new tires and tubes before my last outside ride before an Ironman (gives one nice ride to make sure they are seated fine). Then I race on them. Then I leave them mounted on my race wheels and race all subsequent "non-IM" races on them the following yr until they need to be replaced before my next IM. BUT, if you ever have latex tubes installed in your tires and take them out of your tires for any reason, throw them away. They adhere to the inside of the tire and pulling them out will likely cause micro tears in the latex tube that will dramatically increase your chance of getting a flat if you re-install them. I don't use the talc powder on mine which might be part of the cause of this. But $10-15 each for a yr of use and up to 4-5 races seems like a pretty cheap deal to buy me a couple extra watts considering my annual triathlon spend.
Wow! Thanks for the excellent responses Gang, seems like I need to find some latex tubes and give them a spin. One to two watts per tire is nothing to sneeze at. I have a couple of small races coming up that I will experiment with these to get comfortable and see if I can roll them in to my Ironman plan.
That's a Hed problem with any tube since their spoke holes are asymmetrical and you have to compensate by using extra wide rim tape.
Even if you get the CO2 in to the latex tube without having any freezing induced problems, effluence through the tube by CO2 is so fast you won't be happy. You would see a notable pressure drop across a 5 hour ride.
The installation and CO2 issues make it imperative that spares be butyl.
ALL THAT SAID, I will try latex tubes this year at Grand Rapids in June. If I flat I will leverage that training into a PB attempt at Racine a bit over a month later.
Matt ~ I am with you on the paranoia about flatting on race day. I am definitely going to have to experiment and get some confidence with latex tubes before committing. But, it does sound like a worthwhile thing to try.
Just as an alternative, I use ultra lightweight butyl tubes for racing, there close to the same weight as latex, and more robust. The michelin a1/b1 air comp is only 75g. Never had a flat, but you can use co2.
It's not any harder to install them or anything. You just need to take an extra minute of care to carefully inspect that the latex tube is not "pinched" anywhere between the tire and wheel. It's very easy to do that for the most part since latex tubes are usually bright green or pink so it's very obvious. Once you got them installed and pinch-free, it's done and you don't need to worry about it.
I only had issues with latex tubes on a couple of occasions. Once due to the asymmetric spoke holes on Hed C2 rims mentioned above, which would've eventually flatted a butyl tube as well. The second was a bad batch of Michelin latex tubes that were produced three or so years ago in which parts of the tube were thinner and caused them to bubble and burst. That was a manufacturing defect.
Otherwise, I have had no problems and have used them in every race since 2010. I even run latex tubes for everyday use on my road bike just because I had a couple of spare tubes and figured I might as well use 'em. No problems.
So all we're talking about is an extra minute or two of time. Like someone said, install them a week early and let them sit inflated or ride them round a little.
They do leak air at a much faster rate than butyl so you need to make sure their inflated properly on race morning but doesn't everyone already do that with butyl tubes??? Spares are butyl so that's the same.
Gaining 2-3 watts per wheel is nothing to sneeze at.
Those tubes don't roll any better than normal butyl tubes. They're lighter is all, and less durable. There's absolutely no reason to use those tubes.
Latex are so good not due to the weight savings but due to the better rolling resistance.
All of this talk of latex tubes, tires, etc has reminded me to reach out to Wheelbuilder an organize a group buy on race tires, latex tubes, and wheelcovers. More from me soon.
I just bought a wheel cover last week, but would be interested in a race tire/latex tube group buy. I am racing & training on the same wheels, maybe next year for the wheels...