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danbillingsleydanbillingsley
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Hi, I have question about the thursday long run.  I did week 11 of the Half Iron last week.  The workout called for 70 at MP, 15 @ HMP and 10 @ best effort.  My MP is 7:02, and HMP is 6:48. 

I did a 2 mile warmup w/ strides, and then started the 70'.  (Or should the warmup be included in the 70')  I was able to hold my pace pretty well for 10 miles, but had nothing left to drop the pace.  If i was able to complete, I would have logged 15 miles at faster than race pace.  The timed run seems to make sense for a lower vdot, that is running 8 or 9 min pace.  It just seemed like this run would take way too much time to recover from.  Especially with the race rehersal on two days later on Saturday.

Not complaining about the hard workout, just not recovering in time.  Let me if I am approaching the workout correctly.  

Thanks, Dan

Comments

  • Coach PatrickCoach Patrick
    Dan - just to be clear, we always train you faster than race pace, even on the long runs. It's a big part of how we do things.

    That said, you're right though, with a higher Vdot you do end up running a substantial number of miles. That said, almost everyone is PRing these runs regardless of the vdot because of the quality of pace they are able to sustain. That's work!

    In your case, one of the considerations of a higher vDOT is the proximity of your marathon pace and your half marathon pace. There's only 14 seconds different there per mile which is not a lot. In your case I'm not so worried about your ability to pick it up. Solid running in Zone two is more than enough.
  • danbillingsleydanbillingsley
    Coach,

    Going into week 14's thurday run. I'm still having trouble drinking the cool aid on this one. Just clear this up for me I do a 15' warmup run then go into MS 90' at 7:02 pace, which is about 13 miles (including the warmup, i have already surpass race distance at 15miles). Then at 1hr and 45min into the workout, I 20' at 6:45pace, which will be another 3 miles. Then 10' at 6:38pace. This is hitting the 20mile territory for a half marathon and this one run is more than 50% of the running volume for the week. Then the plan has me doing a race rehearsal on Sat, and I just can't see recovering enough to put in a solid 56mile bike and a 6mile run at race pace....

    I'm starting to wonder if a 5k is a good marker for setting up my running zones? in 2012 I did the same plan and it had a 115' run including 30' WU, 2x12' Z3, 25' Z1, 15' Z2, remainder at Z1. Using that plan I ended up running a 1:36 at Steelhead, PRing with a 4:38. So in the one year I was not a member what feedback did you get to change the plan and make this run so tough?

    Last weeks run was a disaster (after doing 545mile BBW the previous week) I did make it 2hrs but there was a lot of walking! So my last two long runs I totally missed the mark. I will try it again tomorrow, hopefully better rested and see what happens.

    Thanks for reading my rambling....I think really need some convincing on these Thursday runs.

    - Dan

  • danbillingsleydanbillingsley

    So I found this in the forum discussion: http://members.endurancenation.us/Forums/tabid/57/aft/15598/Default.aspx#179128

     What is your thought on this Coach?

  • Coach PatrickCoach Patrick
    Dan, the run is harder for you as your Vdot is so high -- but you did sign up for advanced. :) you can use a half marathon time for your VDot zones if you prefer, or you can reverse engineer previous race paces -- if you ran a 1:30 in your last one, that's your "historical" zone 2...and run according from there.

    At the end of the day I am looking for a solid run at zone 2 with a strong finish. So you could do 60' / 20' / 10'. These are just 3-4 runs and there's nothing in the HIM about a 545 mile bike week. That's going to hurt you for a few more weeks, methinks.
  • danbillingsleydanbillingsley

    Thanks so much for your reply.  I think I had a little Tri-Depression the last couple of weeks.  I ended up breaking the run up into manageable pieces.  30' WU w/ Strides, 4 miles at 7:30 pace building to 7' pace, 4 miles at 7' pace, 2 miles at 6:50 pace, then finished up with 1.25 miles at 6:30 pace.  The run totaled to about 15 miles in 2hrs. Overall it felt successful, but didn't' quit feel 100%.  I'll try to stop complaining and just get the work done from now on.

  • Coach PatrickCoach Patrick
    It's not complaining...we have to be careful. :) I like where your head is at...let's keep this rolling!
  • danbillingsleydanbillingsley

    Coach,

     I want to get your opinion...  I did a HIM race rehearsal last saturday.  Bike went great, held right in the middle of my zone 3.  Run on the other hand, I started to cramp, and had to cut short the 6mile run to 4miles, took Sun off, Monday easy run w/strides, Tues plan run.  So last night (Wed) I did a local 11 mile time trial.  My power was good form maybe the  first 10min then totally fell, and I had trouble staying in zone 4.  The legs were turning, but it just wasnt happening.  My question is, do you think the HIM effort over the weekend, could be playing a roll in this?  Have you seen low numbers, when you are not recoverd?  I just dont get it.  This season does not seem to be coming together.  I am reluctantly doing a Olympic race this saturday, and have no motivation after that Wed effort. 

  • Coach PatrickCoach Patrick
    Sounds like some cumulative fatigue. More than "Dan Must Suck" it's more like "Dan isn't processing training". Are you properly hydrated? Sleeping well? Stressed at work? I think a few easy days are in order to help you rebound, but I encourage some introspection outside of the training itself!!
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