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Simple Minded Swimming Question

Preface: I am not a good swimmer - 

So these past two weeks I have dropped my swim volume back down to 2-2.4k per session from the 3-3.6K I was doing in race prep....and maybe not surprisingly my 100 times have come down...but heres the question(s)....I have been focusing on form and doing shorter sets (50's, 100's, 200's) my /100 pace has dropped back to the 1:49-1:52 range (and coming down)...during the race prep phase my pace had dropped to the 1:57-2:02 range....and I felt my form had deteriorated....as I transition here in the get faster (next 3-4 weeks)...to the IMLOU race prep...how do I increase my volume without having my pace drop off?...is it better to go faster with good form and allow additional rest between repeats/sets?  or slow down and shorten the rest...my trade off is 1.) I don't have a feel for different gears in the water...and as the length of sets increases 300-400-500's...and I try to manage that...my form seems to go to heck.....thoughts on how to manage this?

Comments

  • Probably a few confounding factors to address, and I'm no swim expert but have been making good progress over the past 18months or so following a swimsmooth.com training plan going from ~ 1:48 to 1:35 per 100yd pace. So heres a few things I've picked up that really seem to work/help

    1. I'd say theres a happy medium between your volumes. My typical swim wko throughout the year including IM prep has always been 2.8-3k with a longer once a week 3.2-4k (OWS if possible).

     2. Ideally you want to be creating a diesel engine by swimming threshold sets once a week with short rests, just like we do run and bike. For example with a 400 speed of 7:30 or slower:

    6x200m with 20sec recovery

    3x400m with 45sec recovery

    4x(200m then 100m) with 10sec recovery

    12x100m with 10sec recovery



    Read more: http://www.swimsmooth.com/training.html

    3. Cadence. Pick it up. I had a slow long stroke, classic over gliding, with a pause. Smooth, but seriously inefficient. Pick up a wetronome and practice speeding up your stroke rate. Theres a sweet spot in efficiency where you are having more turnover, but actually are getting faster with less effort. 

    4. Technique, Technique, Technique. I think every workout should have 400-600 of technique drills and one whole workout should be dedicated to technique drills learning to hold form over a full distance set. 

    These are the things that have been working for me, and basically they are the fundamentals from http://www.swimsmooth.com/.

  • @Joseph, thanks for asking the question...I too struggle with form during the longer sets.

    @Rian, this feedback is so valuable. I too am an over glider and while being smooth in the water, my speed sets are a good 10-12 seconds faster (1:38/100m) than my moderate pace (1:50/100m). I know my turnover is much slower during my longer sets (400-600m) than the shorter, I just fatigue so quickly when I increase turnover...any suggestions? I'm also in agreement with you on a set "technique" day. At most points during any training plan the fitness will be there, it then becomes a matter of form to get faster and no matter how fit you are you aren't going to get faster if your form is wrong. This is where I feel I am image
  • This is interesting to me as well. I've been doing a group swim class 1x/wk and find that when I focus on form and all that good stuff, I actually look decent in the water and my times are where I want them for "moderate" swimming. It is when I try to do sprints or the hard stuff in WOs that I fall apart. I think I am struggling in how to translate the technique I have down for slower swimming into faster. Like what do you change to swim fast? I've worked so hard on increasing my gliding and patient hands and that stuff, but when I try to sprint, I lose all that technique. I guess the good thing about a bum hip is lots of time to figure this out while I'm not running!

  • Posted By Joseph Lombardi on 21 May 2014 09:44 AM

    how do I increase my volume without having my pace drop off?

    Swim more frequently would be my suggestion.  While swimming is by far the most technique based of the three disciplines, I find that volume through frequency is very beneficial for me for running and swimming.

    How many times per week are you swimming?  I hate swimming 3500 or whatever.  I'd much rather swim 4x per week for 2500 max than 3x per week at 3300 max.  Same overall weekly distance but I find getting in the water more to be more beneficial and I can swim harder as the workout isn't as long.

    Same reason I'd rather run 5x per week than 3x.

  • Bob....I think I like that approach...I agree...and may go to 4 days from 3...for that reason...frequency seems to help me.

  • Rachel...I think I'm just the opposite...my form is better when I go short and fast/hard...and deteriorates when I go long/slow ....if that makes any sense...maybe my mind wanders??

  • I got a tempo trainer a while back and have been using it religiously for all of my swimming. It has helped me tremendously in keeping me honest and slowly elevating my turn over from glacial to about where my 9 year old boy swims right now.

    I looked at the Gerry Rodriguez - Tower 26 - video on youtube as well as Swim Smooth's stuff and they both seem to say the same thing which is swim more and at a faster pace. I started with TI swimming when I learned to swim and though it helped with form I plateaued at the same speed for all distances.

    Per Rian's comments using CSS from swim smooth and the tempo trainer I now have different speeds. I can do 50s and 100s by increasing the tempo to 68-69 so I go all out and then back the tempo off for longer sets in the range of 61-62. The beeps force me to be accountable and also quickly show where/when I am getting fatigued and actually which side because you can feel that you are late with hand entry.





  • Posted By Joseph Lombardi on 23 May 2014 04:34 AM

    Bob....I think I like that approach...I agree...and may go to 4 days from 3...for that reason...frequency seems to help me.

    I'm pretty sure I never swam more than 2500m in a given workout last year but swam at least 4x per week.  My two IM swims last year were 1:09 and 1:06 and they were zone 1, very easy efforts.

  • I will be take the other side. I feel slowlly increasing the volume of three swims has worked better for me. I take awhile to warm up and my form imprrves as does my times after I am warm. I'm not really ready to get moving till about 1200m. I also use a lot of paddle work (one elastic on middle finger) which helps my form and strength.
  • I learned a long time ago that I know nothing about how to help adults -especially adult onset swimmers - improve; I used to coach a team of eight-and-unders, and what I would tell them just doesn't seem to work with big people 

    But I will note what happens to me during the course of a long workout when I'm trying to maintain the same pace from one interval to the next, and especially when I throw in some fast, short intervals @ the end. EG: 6 x 400s, the first 2 or 3, I'll be cruising along @ 15-16 strokes per length (each arm in the water = one stroke); by the time I get to the last lengths of the last one, I may be doing 17-18 sol, but going the same speed. My RPE is also going up during the course of the workout. FWIW.

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