Seating position during Bike Tests - Aero, up, out of saddle, all?
Hi there,
I was curious before I get into my first bike test with you tomorrow what position I want to be focused on. Obviously we are time trialing so logically we would want to do the entire test in aero. Yet since these tests determine the watts for the zones for all our workouts (which I presume will be done in all positions) - should we then potentially mix up position during test trying to get into what would produce the most power overall? For example the last FTP test I did on my own a month ago I spent 30 minutes riding with around 3 minutes out of saddle, 3 or 4 minutes in aero and the rest sitting up. Position changing for me as discomfort arose felt most effective to get the highest number. Most races will have enough hills that you won't stay in aero the whole race anyway.
And then this leads to my next question: Will most of the training (and main sets in particular) be almost always in aero (except when specified - like out of saddle time)? I see no mention of this in any of the training plans (looking through a few weeks in a few plans).
Look forward to your reply.
Comments
I tend to sit up when testing indoors, but I'm in aerobars when I'm outdoors. It's always easier to find those watts a little more outside the open road.
Training of course is a different story than testing. Standing up and sitting upper tools to make writing harder, which in turn will make you faster and stronger. So I'm all about you pushing your limits in terms of the numbers you can see on the dial in your training. We only spend more more time and arrow bars as we get closer to your race because that simply more race specific.
Thanks you Patrick for your response. That is pretty close to the answer I was expecting/hoping.
If I can continue this train of thought: So I do all my tests in the controlled environment of my garage and trainer. I also do most of my weekday rides on my trainer as well. But when I go out on the road on the weekends and base my zones off power established in my garage - how will will I compensate for the obvious larger output I can produce outside? I honestly do not know the disparity my FTP might be between outside and inside but presume it to be large enough (10-20 watts) that it might effect the numbers I am trying to stick to. I'm used to having the zone based off of HR (but honestly I love the zone by power idea) so my RPE feels around the same at 160bpm outside as is does inside (even though my watts will be different). Do you have some formula like: outside typically add 5% to FTP? Or should I do every other test outside? Part of my concern on this is: 1) getting maximum return out of each workout and 2) how we will establish the race power to hold? Like if my IF will be 0.80 for an IM then that will be against what FTP number (if all my FTP numbers are established indoors) ?
Sorry for being a bit anal on this power data. What I am excited about with your program is in the past I have raced IM and HIM on RPE or heart rate (with mostly mixed results). And being the data geek that I am I am really quite excited about how to dial in and race 112 miles while trying to maintain a normalized power of 2xx watts regardless of HR and trust that plan implicitly.
Also if you feel you have this topic answered in an article or resource I have not gotten to yet please feel free to point me to it rather than waste your time with an elaborate answer. I'm pouring through your Power area now in the wiki so I might just stumble upon it.
Look forward to your response.
Thanks again,
Warren
Very common. Most folks can hold more watts outside than indoors and sitting up vs. aero. My experience is that my outdoor FTP will usually be ~10W more outside. I also have a little higher FTP on my road bike vs. TT bike, regardless of position.
I have asked this same question several times. The gist of the response I got from vets/fast people is that it is fine to test indoors sitting up, doing whatever you can to get the max watts for 20'. Doesn't have to be pretty. The FTP just sets the baseline for where your race goals will be (e.g... .7-.75 for IM, .80-85 for HIM). When I dial back to .7 or .8, the aero position is not difficult to maintain those watts. To maintain .9-1.0 in aero would be difficult/impossible for more than a few minutes though.
So, the answer I got was basically, test however you want, then race/train aero at the lower efforts, and it should work out nicely.
Take a look at this thread too....the middle page mostly. http://members.endurancenation.us/Forums/tabid/57/aft/13966/afpg/3/Default.aspx
check this too....http://members.endurancenation.us/Forums/tabid/57/aft/13721/Default.aspx
Thanks Jeff. That was just what I was looking for. Followed the threads you shared and came to 2 conclusions: think I'll go with the +10watts and see how that feels. I'll then try an outdoor test a month or so later and see if I can hold the outdoor FTP inside my garage. After that I'll likely have a good idea if there is a disparity and if so how to accommodate it.
Thanks you very much again for your input.
Warren,
Just understand that at some point, within about 3wks of the race at which you'll race with power, you'll want to no shit know what your FTP is, outside, on your tri bike, in the aerobars. And understand that the more not-that variables you've been training with (indoors, on a road bike, in the hoods, for example) the more of those variables you'll need to account for.
Basically, you have a Training FTP and a Racing FTP. The Training FTP can be sorta-tested, SWAG'ed, educated guess-ified. But when it comes time to translate that FTP into an FTP that you'll race at, you need that Racing FTP be very accurate, especially for the Ironman distance.
Thanks again. And loving what I am seeing so far in EN.