Warren Hollinger
Hi Patrick,
I hope I am setting this Thread up properly for future questions for you. Seems like each person represents a thread and then we keep posting our questions to it - at least that is my take on it.
My first VO2/FTP/LTHR test with you guys.
Here is a link to my workout: http://home.trainingpeaks.com/athle...DV63CHXDMM
I was hoping I would get some feedback as to if you felt I did the test properly or not. I can see the obvious things like being a little enthusiastic in the first few minutes of my 20 min TT. What I am looking for is more is:
- I saw warmup had 8 minutes of 2 min pickups with 2 min RI. I translated that as 8 minutes of work (and 8 min of RI). Was that correct?
- Overall the warmup seem long enough and hard enough?
- Is it possible to get too enthusiastic on the 5 min VO2 test - so as you leave too little for the 20 min TT? I ask because I definitely held a bit back on the test with this concern in mind. Maybe left 10watts or so on the table.
- I've always had a pretty high Top HR during training and racing. So for being 49 do you see an issue with me getting HR to 180bpm on both tests? or that my LTHR was 172? Even in a late season half marathon (in 2011) where I ran 1:33 at the end of a very heavy training week I had an average HR of 174 and Max HR at end of race of 189
- And finally: I had a delta of 1.33 You mention in an article this would dictate some specific threshold work. What would that be exactly compared to what is already on my plan?
Here is what I derived from the test:
Bike (threshold/VO2/FTP test) 5/28/14
WU -28 min (168watts 126bpm)
5min VO2 - (325watts 171bpm max 416watts)
RI 10 min
Total 20 min LTH/FTP - (257watts 172bpm) max 180bpm
FTPw = 244watts (257 x .95)
LTHR = 171bpm
VO2 - 325 watts
Note: the delta gap between VO2 and FTP should be 1.2. Mine now is 1.33 (evidently my Threshold needs work).
And I expect my questions will mellow out soon once I get an idea that I am following your training protocols properly.
I look forward to your input.
Comments
So farms TD! Thins your thread...so you can subscribe to it and get notifications when I reply, etc. Your test data looks good and you get better at testing as you go along. Given it was your first there's really no modifications to make as we don't know what the baseline "normal" training will do for you.
Your warm up was solid and good. You could cook yourself on the 5' test but it appears you did well there. I don't care about your HR on tests if you use a power meter. Nice to see but the power numbers trump HR in testing.
Did I miss anything??
Not sure what your first sentence meant - "So farms TD!" but understand the rest.
I mention the HR since you have looked at so much data from athletes over the years I was wondering if it appeared odd to you. My prior two coaches somehow always thought as my fitness improved the HR would go down since it a huge way off the MAF HR formula (220-age) of max HR. THis really would not happen except when I would get deep in the training hole I would have a very low suppressed HR from being basically overtrained. Just seeing if the High HRs sound off any bells for you. But from your response I imagine it doesn't.
So thanks for the feedback. Very excited to challenge myself with your program. And I LOVE this kind of work. My past issues with HIT was combining it with too much volume and letting my life stress levels be too high to absorb the workload properly. Hopefully with a few years under my belt, having done enough things the wrong way and your guys' soft guiding touch we find the formula that works for me.
Looking forward to our chat in a few days. Have a great weekend.
Hi Patrick,
Great talking with you today. I appreciated your responses to my questions. I figured I knew the answers to each of the questions but just wanted to confirm we were all on the same page here - and it seems we are. I also very much appreciate knowing there is an ear out there I can chat with from time to time to refine my program. That has some great value to me. And finally if I can be of some help when the team is in Kona this year let me know.
Below is a background on my previous training (for now and future reference as well) and my expectations of using your services ( so we are on the same page as to what I should and shouldn't expect). I also added my last few questions we did not get to on the phone on the bottom.
Some background on previous training.
Age now: 49. Made a living as a professional rock climber until 1999 where a big fall on a route broke my back in 6 places. I now have 2 permanent foot-long titanium rods that hold it all together. It is a minor limiter nowadays. It took me until 2007 to feel comfortable with the bike aspect of triathlon (twisting falls are one of the main things I needed to avoid). So I started with an Olympic and then did IMkona that Oct. In 2008 I did IMKona and Ultraman Hawaii. I mostly spent the first 2 years focused on fitness and being able to go the distance with long slow distance training.
In previous years for me to qualify for Kona I just needed to beat the top local Big Islanders in the Hawaii 70.3. So I never actually needed my speed to be all that fast (a 5:15 - 5:30 would usually do it). I had one year in 2009 where I hired a full time coach with the full intention of going mid 9hr in Kona (a 2 year plan) and never even came close. My race execution and taper that year was completely off for the Honu, Kona and my "Do Over" race at IMAZ. Though I felt I had great fitness I was dug so deep into a fatigued state for so much of that year I couldn't even visualize going with the plan for year 2. And I took all of 2010 off (also had my twins that summer). In 2011 I had one shining year where I tinkered with low volume, high intensity by cherry picking through previous years' workouts (Trainingpeaks has been very handy this way). I finally saw I could produce some pretty decent speed and fitness without training more than 14 hours a week. And I finally got an idea on how to execute a race without my stomach blowing up on the run. But family and business pretty much dictated 2012-13 needed focus away from triathlon.
So here I am in 2014. Unlike previous years where I start each January, 10 weeks (or a year and 10 weeks) badly out of shape already (I typically can gain 15+ pounds during that period) and then have to be IM ready by July or Oct, this year I am making a substantially larger commitment to being fast not just fit. And I think giving myself a whole year (as well as coming into it this training year rather fit) will give me a high probability of reaching my goals - as long as I don't burn out. So as I look at your plans and style of training I feel good about rolling the dice and giving your program a solid effort. I just want to be sure you guys can somehow keep an eye on any signals from your side that might indicate I am burning out if that is at all possible. I'll obviously be monitoring myself for this on a granular level week in and week out, but I'm talking about big picture burnout. 18 months until Kona 2015 is a pretty long time and the second ramp up in the summer of 2015 for Kona (or Florida) could be psychologically and physically draining. And even though this is a bit of cart before the horse - IM FL will happen regardless for an all-time PR (if I don't get into Kona). So I just want you to have this all in mind as we go forward. 700+ athletes is a lot to coach so I don't want to have unrealistic expectations as to what to expect from you guys. And if this needs to be solely my responsibility it would be best to know this upfront.
I'm also a big athlete: 6'2'' 185lbs. So the heat in Kona (and even the Hawaii 70.3 for that matter) has always been real limiter for me to execute my race well. My greatest success in Kona has happened only from allowing myself to bonk on the run by mile 10, then refuel while walking for a mile before picking up running. I actually did this on purpose in 2011 to ensure I did not have the stomach issues of the previous 3 Kona races. And it only produced an 11:01. I'm really hoping you guys will be able to help me dial this in. In cool conditions like IMLP in 2011I managed a 10:53 with a 3:53 marathon. It was encouraging since it represented the first IM I did not have a stomach issue. And that course was definitely harder (technically on paper) than Kona. So I really need to come up with a formula to dial into to make Kona work. And I am hoping you guys in some way can help with that. Also race execution is going to be paramount to me since I am going to be doing so few races and hanging a lot of dreams on a fast IM Texas. And this is another area I am hoping your system is going to work.
My final questions I didn't get to you on the phone with:
Do you guys look into TrainingPeaks.com on a coaches level? Are you interested in seeing the workouts completed - like what I have in trainingpeaks? My guess is no unless there is something very specific I want to ask you about.
Since my primary goal will be Kona - Do we have enough down time built in to not feel burned out mentally by Oct 2015 (or May 2015 for that matter)? I see 1 unstructured week in Sept and a swim camp at end of December that might be construed as Rest time.I'm kind of used to a recovery week every 3rd week where I dial back volume, intensity, or both. I don't really see that in the GF plan except maybe on week 8. Should I modify it myself based on how I feel at the beginning of (lets say) the 3rd week? You don't ramp up interval numbers or interval time much each week so it would seem I wouldn't have a big gap to jump from lets say week 2 to week 4 interval or volume goals. What is your thought?
Sorry for the barrage of questions. Hopefully that should be the last in that fashion for some time.
I look forward to your reply.
Rich handles the season planning stuff (Macro thread; you can just link him here as that's easier), but I imagine we'd need some intermediary goals for you enroute to Kona 2015 to keep you on track and sane. Something this Fall perhaps and even the spring unless Honu fits that bill. In addition or as an alternative to a race we can build in a camp week or some kind of a volume focus to counter the regular intensity and keep things moving forward.
I recommend breaks at natural times--between Turkey Day and Xmas is pretty natural, for example.
WAs for the micro breaks we can do that as you go along, but I'd rather build in a weekly rest day, for example, than forcing bigger breaks into the plans. The point of not ramping up the volume/intervals much each week is precisely so it can be more "consistently sustainable."
Thanks for your input Patrick. I definitely prefer being responsible for the day to day fatigue and adjusting training accordingly.
I think a half Marathon in late fall might help. I have one planned for beginning of Jan. We also have a bunch of little 2 and 3 sport free events here I was debating jumping into. And I really have no plan to go after even a half IM this year (Honu is over). Wish I had some more Olys available in Hawaii . All that is left is Hilo Tri on July 13 and Tinman in Oahu 2 weeks later. And then that is the end of the tri-season in Hawaii practically (until IM Kona and Maui Xterra) - LOL.
I like the Camp week idea. Sounds interesting.
And I understand the weekly rest day instead of the regular rest week. I presume this will answer itself in the next few weeks as I just go after the prescribed workouts and see how the body absorbs.
Thanks again.