You and me both James! I did 1:25 in the pool this am. But my coach said I'm taking a lot of time on the turns, and taking 2-3 seconds punching/validating my finger mounted lap counter each lap, I don't want to skip 1!!! I do know that I did a 35 min 1.2 mile at Wildflower and was just getting warmed up! So at least for me, wetsuit swimming in open water shaves a lot of time off of my pool time. I might try to do a lake race rehearsal next weekend, but I'm honestly focusing on my running more right now.
You will do great, and it sounds like there will not be any ice bergs at CDA, that is encouraging too!!!
I'm jealous my swim times are around 1:24 how do you guy go so fast
The difference between the sub 1:15 group and the over 1:15 group is we swam as kids and you are probably an adult onset swimmer. Huge Difference!
Bill- The Garmin 910 has a built in inside pool function that counts your laps as you go. You program in if its a 25 SCY and it accurately counts for you, no punching buttons at every turn. It's the reason I upgraded from a 310.
I am on the slower side as well. I did 1:22:50 this morning, but I am super happy with it! I did a 44 minute swim at Oceanside so I am definitely making improvement!
Yeah, I think that has a lot to do with it, which is why if I do anything to stay in shape after this race I will keep swimming at a minimum, it really is something that is low impact and I think if we keep at it should be able to improve.
@ Steven - While I did not do CDA last year, I experienced a similar start with the same large # of people @ Lake Tahoe. Even though we were all crowded together in a long line parading through the start arch, the actual swimming was MUCH less hectic than a mass start from the beach.Like a marathon start, the athletes were asked to self seed, and signs were placed indicated estimated finishing times, with corrals separating us every five minutes. I was lined up @ 1:15, took about 1.5-2 minutes to get into the water after the gun. Because almost all the folks around me were swimming the same speed, it seemed almost pleasant especially with the snow capped peaks rimming the lake and the fog rising from the water into the 34F air (water was 64).
1:15.10 for 4200 yds in the pool, without flip turns (too breathless @ 8000'). This time I went 900, 800, 700, 600, 500, 400, 300 with 10-20 sec regrouping between each. That way I don't lose count, as well as ease the boredom. I count strokes while swimming, that's how I keep track of how far I've gone, e.g, 240-256 = 400. I think I'd lose it if I had to count to 2,700! My pace progressed from 1:50 >> 1:46 as I dropped the distance.
Right next door to the pool, set up in the soccer and softball fields, the Ragnar Trail Relay was setting up. 4 or 8 person teams, each one running three legs on the three trails which rise out of the rec center, 120 miles total (these trails are off-road with some elevation gain/loss). Next year, I've got to avoid IM CDA somehow, and convince 3-7 cohorts to come out for what I cal "A slumber party for endorphin junkies." There are hundreds of runners and their tents, along with a full-scale expo. It's a much better idea than the popoint-to-point relays Ragnar has been doing - no need to try and live out of a car. And here, my house is right on the route, and only a mile from the nerve center, so folks could actually get sleep between legs, as well as stay refreshed out of the sun.
Tomorrow, for the 5 hour ride, I'm going to string together a few of my favorite routes here, looking for scenery and finn downhills, rather than the flattest route I can find. Probably 6000' of climbing/70 miles. Save the valley roads for the last RR.
Ha, I'll trade someone a higher vdot for a faster swim!
@ Al, Good to know that the swim start helps somewhat to spread us out at least. Also, I did the Hood to Coast Relay last year in Oregon...highly recommend doing a relay like that or Ragnar!
Knocked out the RR swim at lunch in the SMU outdoor 50 meter pool - that's gotta to be the most boring wko we do!! My times have been consistent over the last three weeks - 1:06:41, 1:06:05 & 1:07:02 today.
Legs are feeling pretty whipped from yesterday's long run. Developed some soreness on my left glute / hip area. Walking with a bit of a gimp today. Hoping it won't impact my bike tomorrow....I'll probably skip the pre-bike run so as not to agitate it further.
Thanks Steve. If I keep doing this crazy sport I will definitely upgrade the garmin. Got the 310 used and is doing the job, but can see where it would be nice to have the 910.
I'm going to try the swim again next fri, I did the first half too easy since I had not done the full distance before, but now realize I went too slow, so good to get my pacing figured out, even if in a pool for right now. Full distance was not as bad as I thought, so a confidence booster from that angle.
I got a question I was only able to do 4 of the 5 hours today on the bike due to time constraints so I pushed just a little bit harder on the 25 min interval(not a lot maybe 10 watts) and cut back 1 interval and 1/2 hour of steady weighed myself and gained 2 lbs I did try to force more water down but kept my nutrition where it has worked for me 80 start temp and 90 finish temp is this good bad or a non issue peed 3 times on the wko
I got a question I was only able to do 4 of the 5 hours today on the bike due to time constraints so I pushed just a little bit harder on the 25 min interval(not a lot maybe 10 watts) and cut back 1 interval and 1/2 hour of steady weighed myself and gained 2 lbs
I did try to force more water down but kept my nutrition where it has worked for me 80 start temp and 90 finish temp is this good bad or a non issue peed 3 times on the wko
Yeah, sometimes I'll finish a long bike in the IM prep phase weighing more than @ the start. I attribute it to taking in fluid/nutrition as if I were racing the Ironman, rather than what I need for a stand alone bike. Being well-hydrated @ the start of the IM run is one important factor for a successful race.
-----------------
Today, a 5.25 hr ride up and down several long climbs, two of 2000', one of 700', for a total of 6000' elevation gain, 76 miles, TSS of 229, overall IF of 0.67, with the climbs in the 0.7-75 range. I view the climbing I have to do around here as accomplishing two goals: get in some long steady intervals @ whatever effort level the plan calls for, and getting more tolerant of going faster while in control on the downhills. 20 years ago, on a road bike or tandem, I had no fears about going 45-50 mph downhill. Now, getting over 30 mph on an endless 6-7% grade starts to rev my anxiety meter. Focusing on keeping the bike steady, leaning into turns, feathering breaks rather than grabbing, accelerating out of turns, etc. There are several (4?) longish downhills on the CDA course where I don't want to lose unnecessary time.
Here's what it looked like at the end of those two long climbs today (the cyclists are participants in the local triathlon, which goes up and down this road after a pool swim, and before a run along the valley bike path.) These are stock photos I grabbed off the internet, because, as Steve S knows, I don't have a smart phone:
Finished off the week with some great riding. I did 5 hours at 0.73 IF for 266 TSS points. This morning I did 2 hours on the trainer at 0.82 IF, too many family obligations today to ride any longer. I am not sure my legs were up to it anyway. I am pretty happy with these efforts especially since they are my first rides after the FTP boost!
Had a pretty good 5 hour ride yesterday...the lake was crowded so more stops and starts that I like...but what can you do.
Confession: I skipped the ABP ride altogether today. I woke up today feeling absolutely awful. Not "sick" awful...just awful like my body is on the verge of a total breakdown & I'm mentally out of juice. I found stiffness and pain in all sorts of places - most predominately my left hip/glute and the outside of my right foot - though overall my body just feels utterly run down. I assume I'm just overly fatigued and that the day off will help. I remember when I wrestled in college we'd practice 20 hours a week (minimum) - but my body seemed to recover so much quicker as a 20 year old than it does now as a 40 year old. Go figure. I did take 30 minutes just to stretch and foam roll - that seemed to help a bit.
Gotta be honest - the outside of my right foot is the thing that's most concerning to me - I'm praying & hoping it's not a stress fracture. Not sure what to do with the scheduled runs this week - skip them? Try them at a zone 1 pace? Trying not to get discouraged that we're this close to the starting line and my body seems to be rebelling.
David- the one thing you need to worry about from now until race day is getting and staying healthy. You've put in the work, now you have to absorb all that work and heal. If your foot hurts then skip the runs or do them at a slower pace. Good call on standing down this morning, I did as well. Three weeks to go...heal up.
I skipped last Sunday, so decided to go today in spite of little desire and low energy. Made it for three hours in mostly Z2, but I am a zombie now and I just want to go to bed. Good luck in the next week!
Yeah, i went biking with my girlfriend and a few of her friends sunday and did an easy 25 miles. Really enjoyed the company and the ride even though it was no where near the prescribed ABP 3 1/2 hour effort. Earned some much needed SAU points for taking the time to do that!!
Glad to find out I am not the only one that had to lay low on Sunday...after finishing 5 hours in the heat on Saturday, I felt so depleted I felt it would do more harm than help to ride Sunday, had not felt that way on double weekend rides before, must be heat and training catching up with me. After a couple naps, felt good enough to at least get a run in at sundown.
Also rode on some new Continental 4000sII tires, did 18.8mph for 5 hours, they rode much smoother than prev stock tires I had, I really liked them, was surprised they felt both faster and smoother on the bumps. Got a pinched flat when I was putting them on, blew up in my house and scared the crap out of me...lesson learned to put a little air in the tube before pulling tire on...
Anyone have advice on renting wheels? I think EN recommends against it, but I am sure tempted to rent some Firecrest wheels for the race.
Hi Al, saw your note about .72 and .74 on the effort, starting light first hour, etc...you had mentioned that to me rel to HR approach that I use, just wanted to get your feedback. My max HR is 160, top of zone 5, I'm 54, I have been riding as close to a CDA like course that I can, have been bringing down my avg HR per your original email, used to come in 137 or 138, which is high end of zone 2 for me, zone 2 is 120-140 for me, and recently am down to avg of 131. But .72 of max HR 160 is 115, .74 is 118, just getting close to top of zone 1. Seems low for a goal?
Thoughts? Am I that far off and going to be in trouble for the run if I don't dial it down more? Bike is my strongest leg, good and bad, I need to save what I need for my weakest link, the run, want to be somewhat smart!
Hi Al, saw your note about .72 and .74 on the effort, starting light first hour, etc...you had mentioned that to me rel to HR approach that I use, just wanted to get your feedback. My max HR is 160, top of zone 5, I'm 54, I have been riding as close to a CDA like course that I can, have been bringing down my avg HR per your original email, used to come in 137 or 138, which is high end of zone 2 for me, zone 2 is 120-140 for me, and recently am down to avg of 131. But .72 of max HR 160 is 115, .74 is 118, just getting close to top of zone 1. Seems low for a goal?
Are we talking bike pacing here? I'm not too familiar with using HR to pace the bike anymore, but I can relate what my experience was (before EN) when I had no PM. When I was 55-60 and my max HR was around 165, I would ride the first half of an IM bike leg at an HR of 110-117, and finish the second half in the 118-124 range. I ran 4:0X marathon several times after riding like that on both hilly (CDA) and flat (AZ courses) which was pretty close to my potential, so I certainly wasn't overdoing it, and I was winning or on the podium in those races. Overall avg HR was 116 or so. You do the math
Thanks Al. Yes, for the bike leg. Podium equals good math I would say...ok, I have just scored some race wheels, so if that gives me half a mile per hour more, I can dial down my HR some more and still be where I want to be for bike. I know I should focus on HR not speed, but I won't lie that I have a goal for the race, part of the fun of it, hopefully not a crash and burn! I will take HR down further, and I need to make that my focus and let the speed be what it is.
Comments
You will do great, and it sounds like there will not be any ice bergs at CDA, that is encouraging too!!!
The difference between the sub 1:15 group and the over 1:15 group is we swam as kids and you are probably an adult onset swimmer. Huge Difference!
Bill- The Garmin 910 has a built in inside pool function that counts your laps as you go. You program in if its a 25 SCY and it accurately counts for you, no punching buttons at every turn. It's the reason I upgraded from a 310.
Yeah, I think that has a lot to do with it, which is why if I do anything to stay in shape after this race I will keep swimming at a minimum, it really is something that is low impact and I think if we keep at it should be able to improve.
Talk to you soon!
Bill
@ Steven - While I did not do CDA last year, I experienced a similar start with the same large # of people @ Lake Tahoe. Even though we were all crowded together in a long line parading through the start arch, the actual swimming was MUCH less hectic than a mass start from the beach.Like a marathon start, the athletes were asked to self seed, and signs were placed indicated estimated finishing times, with corrals separating us every five minutes. I was lined up @ 1:15, took about 1.5-2 minutes to get into the water after the gun. Because almost all the folks around me were swimming the same speed, it seemed almost pleasant especially with the snow capped peaks rimming the lake and the fog rising from the water into the 34F air (water was 64).
1:15.10 for 4200 yds in the pool, without flip turns (too breathless @ 8000'). This time I went 900, 800, 700, 600, 500, 400, 300 with 10-20 sec regrouping between each. That way I don't lose count, as well as ease the boredom. I count strokes while swimming, that's how I keep track of how far I've gone, e.g, 240-256 = 400. I think I'd lose it if I had to count to 2,700! My pace progressed from 1:50 >> 1:46 as I dropped the distance.
Right next door to the pool, set up in the soccer and softball fields, the Ragnar Trail Relay was setting up. 4 or 8 person teams, each one running three legs on the three trails which rise out of the rec center, 120 miles total (these trails are off-road with some elevation gain/loss). Next year, I've got to avoid IM CDA somehow, and convince 3-7 cohorts to come out for what I cal "A slumber party for endorphin junkies." There are hundreds of runners and their tents, along with a full-scale expo. It's a much better idea than the popoint-to-point relays Ragnar has been doing - no need to try and live out of a car. And here, my house is right on the route, and only a mile from the nerve center, so folks could actually get sleep between legs, as well as stay refreshed out of the sun.
Tomorrow, for the 5 hour ride, I'm going to string together a few of my favorite routes here, looking for scenery and finn downhills, rather than the flattest route I can find. Probably 6000' of climbing/70 miles. Save the valley roads for the last RR.
@ Al, Good to know that the swim start helps somewhat to spread us out at least. Also, I did the Hood to Coast Relay last year in Oregon...highly recommend doing a relay like that or Ragnar!
Legs are feeling pretty whipped from yesterday's long run. Developed some soreness on my left glute / hip area. Walking with a bit of a gimp today. Hoping it won't impact my bike tomorrow....I'll probably skip the pre-bike run so as not to agitate it further.
Keep going!
Thanks Steve. If I keep doing this crazy sport I will definitely upgrade the garmin. Got the 310 used and is doing the job, but can see where it would be nice to have the 910.
I'm going to try the swim again next fri, I did the first half too easy since I had not done the full distance before, but now realize I went too slow, so good to get my pacing figured out, even if in a pool for right now. Full distance was not as bad as I thought, so a confidence booster from that angle.
Thanks and see you soon!
Bill
I did try to force more water down but kept my nutrition where it has worked for me 80 start temp and 90 finish temp is this good bad or a non issue peed 3 times on the wko
Yeah, sometimes I'll finish a long bike in the IM prep phase weighing more than @ the start. I attribute it to taking in fluid/nutrition as if I were racing the Ironman, rather than what I need for a stand alone bike. Being well-hydrated @ the start of the IM run is one important factor for a successful race.
-----------------
Today, a 5.25 hr ride up and down several long climbs, two of 2000', one of 700', for a total of 6000' elevation gain, 76 miles, TSS of 229, overall IF of 0.67, with the climbs in the 0.7-75 range. I view the climbing I have to do around here as accomplishing two goals: get in some long steady intervals @ whatever effort level the plan calls for, and getting more tolerant of going faster while in control on the downhills. 20 years ago, on a road bike or tandem, I had no fears about going 45-50 mph downhill. Now, getting over 30 mph on an endless 6-7% grade starts to rev my anxiety meter. Focusing on keeping the bike steady, leaning into turns, feathering breaks rather than grabbing, accelerating out of turns, etc. There are several (4?) longish downhills on the CDA course where I don't want to lose unnecessary time.
Here's what it looked like at the end of those two long climbs today (the cyclists are participants in the local triathlon, which goes up and down this road after a pool swim, and before a run along the valley bike path.) These are stock photos I grabbed off the internet, because, as Steve S knows, I don't have a smart phone:
Confession: I skipped the ABP ride altogether today. I woke up today feeling absolutely awful. Not "sick" awful...just awful like my body is on the verge of a total breakdown & I'm mentally out of juice. I found stiffness and pain in all sorts of places - most predominately my left hip/glute and the outside of my right foot - though overall my body just feels utterly run down. I assume I'm just overly fatigued and that the day off will help. I remember when I wrestled in college we'd practice 20 hours a week (minimum) - but my body seemed to recover so much quicker as a 20 year old than it does now as a 40 year old. Go figure. I did take 30 minutes just to stretch and foam roll - that seemed to help a bit.
Gotta be honest - the outside of my right foot is the thing that's most concerning to me - I'm praying & hoping it's not a stress fracture. Not sure what to do with the scheduled runs this week - skip them? Try them at a zone 1 pace? Trying not to get discouraged that we're this close to the starting line and my body seems to be rebelling.
Sigh....
David- the one thing you need to worry about from now until race day is getting and staying healthy. You've put in the work, now you have to absorb all that work and heal. If your foot hurts then skip the runs or do them at a slower pace. Good call on standing down this morning, I did as well. Three weeks to go...heal up.
Glad to find out I am not the only one that had to lay low on Sunday...after finishing 5 hours in the heat on Saturday, I felt so depleted I felt it would do more harm than help to ride Sunday, had not felt that way on double weekend rides before, must be heat and training catching up with me. After a couple naps, felt good enough to at least get a run in at sundown.
Also rode on some new Continental 4000sII tires, did 18.8mph for 5 hours, they rode much smoother than prev stock tires I had, I really liked them, was surprised they felt both faster and smoother on the bumps. Got a pinched flat when I was putting them on, blew up in my house and scared the crap out of me...lesson learned to put a little air in the tube before pulling tire on...
Anyone have advice on renting wheels? I think EN recommends against it, but I am sure tempted to rent some Firecrest wheels for the race.
Hi Al, saw your note about .72 and .74 on the effort, starting light first hour, etc...you had mentioned that to me rel to HR approach that I use, just wanted to get your feedback. My max HR is 160, top of zone 5, I'm 54, I have been riding as close to a CDA like course that I can, have been bringing down my avg HR per your original email, used to come in 137 or 138, which is high end of zone 2 for me, zone 2 is 120-140 for me, and recently am down to avg of 131. But .72 of max HR 160 is 115, .74 is 118, just getting close to top of zone 1. Seems low for a goal?
Thoughts? Am I that far off and going to be in trouble for the run if I don't dial it down more? Bike is my strongest leg, good and bad, I need to save what I need for my weakest link, the run, want to be somewhat smart!
Thanks!!!
Bill
Are we talking bike pacing here? I'm not too familiar with using HR to pace the bike anymore, but I can relate what my experience was (before EN) when I had no PM. When I was 55-60 and my max HR was around 165, I would ride the first half of an IM bike leg at an HR of 110-117, and finish the second half in the 118-124 range. I ran 4:0X marathon several times after riding like that on both hilly (CDA) and flat (AZ courses) which was pretty close to my potential, so I certainly wasn't overdoing it, and I was winning or on the podium in those races. Overall avg HR was 116 or so. You do the math
Thanks Al. Yes, for the bike leg. Podium equals good math I would say...ok, I have just scored some race wheels, so if that gives me half a mile per hour more, I can dial down my HR some more and still be where I want to be for bike. I know I should focus on HR not speed, but I won't lie that I have a goal for the race, part of the fun of it, hopefully not a crash and burn! I will take HR down further, and I need to make that my focus and let the speed be what it is.
Thanks,
Bill