Infinit vs. Garorade Endurance
I experimented with nutrition during a big bike week and found that I felt a lot better and avoided abdomen muscle cramps with Gatorade Endurance and salt tablet. Infinit (2-3 scoops per bottle) left me flat and achy after the long ride. Anyone else have this experience or have advice. My concern is the lack of protein with Gatorade.
George
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Hey, if makes you feel good, go with it! Did you run at all after the bike? If so, how did you feel? Can you stomach something like a cliff bar or the like for the protein you are worried about? Hammer products are good to my stomach, but man does all this stuff add up! Good luck.
Dan
No question, you have to experiment to find out what works. Anything shorter than 3-4 hours (unless you are a pro cyclist ???) I don't think protein is necessary. 4+ hours on the bike, I use Hammer Perpetuum; shorter, and I stick with Gatorade. I add a Clif Bar if the ride has a social component, i.e., stopping for five minutes after 60-90 minutes. Give the protein product another try in your race rehearsals for that June Ironman. If the same thing happens, try the Gatorade on the second RR. Solid foods for an IM often are a problem for most folks who are working at the effort levels EN recommends, especially if taken in the second half of the bike or on the run.
You need to find what works for you. The jury is out on the need for protein during prolonged exercise. Hammer makes some claims that are questionable. FYI: I think they make great products. I use some of them. I've been using InfiniT since last year and really like it. Tastes much better than Perpetuem to me. Mike Folan at InfiniT told me he recommends using protein for feeling full.
I did IMWI in 2008 and did not use any protein at all during the race and had no issues.
On the protein/no-protein thing, maybe Penny can chime in.
As I understand it, mixing carbs and protein is good for recovery and I do this. Nutrition companies have transferred this guidance over to during-exercise guidance, as they say that carbs, when mixed with protein, are absorbed more quickly by the muscles during exercise than carbs taken alone. They say it's also gives you a bit of head start on recovery and likely reduces muscle damage during exercise. However, I recall that these studies were done by the same companies who make these products...go figure.
My observations of my own nutrition:
My point is that we should all experiment with what works for us and experiment with finding the low end of cal/hr of what works. As we've said, we've seen very, very few athletes on IM race day get themselves into a true bonk for lack of calories situation. More often, problems are cause by taking in too many calories. My experience with carb/protein drinks during exercise is that my body has more work to do than just a carb drink = more likely to have stomach and other problems.
Dan,
You bring up a great point. I did 3 days of outdoor riding Tue AM Run, PM 65 mile bike (Infinit) , Wed 40 mile bike, Thur AM Run, PM 65 mile bike (Gatorade). No, I did not run after the bike when I used Infinit. But, I did have abdominal muscle cramps after I got off the bike. When I used Gatorade Endurance + water, I had no problems even after 65 miles. Maybe I had gotten used to the workload. But, I still plan to experiment with higher concentration of Infinit for long rides.
George
Rich,
That is a great perspective and I wish I had taken heed to something of that nature for my IM. You can always add calories if you feel you need them, but you can never take them away once you've taken them and it can really wreak havoc on your race. Funny when I think about it, when I did my first tri, I knew really nothing about nutrition (still don't) and just trained with water and gatorade and figured during the run I'd drink a cup of water and grab whatever food looked good to me. Amazingly I finished, it was a half tri, and I never felt a bonk. Man, ignorance is bliss.... now I scramble to read everything, and I think nutrition is something that is not nearly as close to a science as training is (even that is still in its infancy but at least it has been studied for many years) where nutrition has never been at forefront unless as you said, it is in the interest of the party selling it. What I am finding out about this sport is that you need less and less and you will still survive as long as you train hard and rest hard, you will adapt.
Dan
Al,
Perpetum sounds like I need to try it. I have tasted it after a race as a free sample and it seem to agree with me. If not on RR#1 I think I'll try is on another big bike week.
George
Matt,
Mike at Infinit made my mix too. I know I'm a salty sweater
so he bumped up the electrolyte content. Last year I did my first HIM on Gatorade Endurance + salt tabs + water and had no problems and actually fininshed smiling. I'm kinda hoping that I don't need the protein for IM distance.
George
Protein helps in a couple of ways but mainly with satiety - keeping you from being hungry. It is only used in small amounts for energy during activity, but is important during recovery.
George: If you had something that works then don't change it unless you have a darn good reason. Just my opinion, but I don't change someone's race nutrition unless there is a solid reason behind it. I like Infinit a lot, but it isn't for a lot of people.
@Dan - I do sometimes think ignorance can be great! My first IM bike nutrition? Water, PBJ, and gatorade. Easy peasy!
Okay...new question to chime in with here. For a HIM, is there any reason I couldn't use tablets, water, and Hammer gels for the duration of the race (hopefully only 5 hours)? I have toyed with Perpetuem, but, it requires much more effort as it has a short shelf life, has to be placed on site right before the race, and has to be mixed right. On the other hand, I can put gels in my bento box and run belt and be ready to roll.
I have never been one to have any kind of stomach issue...so, for me, it is a matter of what is easier to manage and Gels seem to be by far the easiest thing. If protein isn't really necessary, then, to heck with Perpetuem...which I really only used on the bike anyway - I stayed with gels during the run already.
Any reason I should NOT do this?
@Olivia: I am in the same position. No matter how many calories I consume from Infinit I have that "empty" feeling. I have found that a banana every couple hours works well for me. However, that can be a double edge sword since from time to time bananas give me serious heartburn. It is always a crap shot. I will have to check the protein level of my Infinit mix.
@Stephen,
Why not? If it works, do it. After all the reading, talking to others, and reading posts on forums, it seems that everything is personal. What works for you might not work for me. I've been guilty of getting caught up in products that say you MUST do it a certain way for the best results. well, if you have been feeling good doing it your way, why change it? The key is practicing your nutrition strategy, if it works for you and you feel good, don't feel pressured into doing what others do....that's why marketing is such a big business! Good luck and follow your path!
Dan
When I moved to use a powermeter, I also joined EN in Apr 2008, I also switched to Infinit. No more gels on the bike, less containers to deal with. Less things to lose, dislodge off the bike, get melty and gooey, etc.
Like everything else, nutrition-wise, you gotta do what works for YOU. Nobody else can dictate it.
I had a buddy who did IMCDA in 2007, the guy ate 500-600cals/hour in gels and bars. And he still killed it. That caloric volume would make me yack!
Michele,
I too did my first HIM with Gatorade, GU gels, and water. Although, preloaded with 2 salt tabs before the race and added another one later early in the bike. Seemed to do ok with half a GU every hour or so with sips of gatorade and water. Never really counted calories, just, took a sip or so and let thirst dictate the intake volume. Maybe it was race nerves, but I never got hungry - or perhaps the GU satisfied my sweet tooth.
Did you modify your nutrition for IM distance?
Penny,
Thanks alot. The old saying "if something is not broke, don't fix it" makes way too much sense. Now I'm thinking of using my faithful Gatorade Endurance, GU, Salt Tab, and water on my RR#1. If it works then I'm set.
If it has worked for you at shorter distances, it is worth trying for longer distances as well. If you try it and it doesn't work, then you can start tinkering.
A few things other than Clif/ Power/GU/Hammergel cartel that seem to work:
-Pom juice, about 20% of a bottle of water. Stuff has some calories in it that I didn't realize until I started counting them.
-Bananas
-Sunflower seeds with shells for long, hot rides. Fun to chew and spit. Lots of salt.
-Mojo bars- sugar and salt
-Baby Snickers- always
-high quality H2O, uncut.
- after high intensity work, the newest secret weapon bounce back recovery food is the humble pineapple chunk. Picks you right up.
wow, great info - like a lot of folks, I just sort of winged it during my first HIM last year - doing what I would do for marathons. For the most part I drink a lot more water than electrolyte drinks; actually I don't drink much of those at all and it seems to be okay for me (at least for running)... my nutrition has consisted of: Hammer gels, water, S! Caps (before race, T1, one on the bike, T2), and Heed as needed. That combo (no solid foods) worked really well for me at Eagleman last year and getting ready for my first real ride of the season I think I'll stick to that.
I've never tried Perpetuum bc of the shelf life/mixing issues. Once EM is behind me and I start general and race prep I think I'll experiment with Infinit - I know there are lots of threads out there about Infinit. I'm definitely intrigued by the no solids philosophy (I guess the gels count as liquid)... oh, and I think Al mentioned it, I have a gel flask for my gels for longer runs and rides - so I don't have to worry about ripping the packet open, etc... on shorter rides I just tape the gels to my frame and as I rip it off, it opens for me - easy peasy. I do't have a bento box yet, but I've got a holder for the flask that's velcro'ed around my frame where a bento box would be, which is super easy to deal with.