Surgeons Needed
No, not for my back. I am looking for a taxidermist for my season on that one. Instead after listening to another ER-like show over my wife's shoulder, I need to know:
DO SURGEONS AND RELEATED-ER STAFF REALLY JUST TALK ALL THE TIME WHILE OPERATING?
I mean, I can talk and drive a car, but I assume (perhaps wrongly) that distractions while performing major surgery are unwelcome. Help me settle the bet! 
P
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Comments
Jay, CCRN.
Patrick,
My mother-in-law is a NP and worked with orthopods for almost a decade, not that there were any malpractices that she mentioned, she talked about a lot of what they talked about in the OR and some of it is pretty funny. Of course, no names mentioned or any specifics of the patient whatsoever when she told me, but it was interesting. But from what I have heard, Jay has hit the nail on the head. What are you betting?
Dan
Also, there's communication between the surgeon and the scrub tech/nurse and the circulating nurse and anesthesia about goings-on with the operation.
As far as chit-chat, if something routine and non-critical is going (like closing the skin incisions, waiting for pathology or radiology to show up) on there's typically chit-chat. If there's something critical going on, I for one don't tolerate it and I don't think most surgeons do.
So to answer your question: There is some talking throughout an operation like: "Scalpel...Clamp...We're going on bypass..." and "So how was your weekend?" and "Holy crap! That really smells." But constantly talking ALL THE TIME...no.
Finally! Something I can add to from experience. I am an orthopedic surgeon, and I have to have music in the background. Currently we have Sirius satellite radio and I listen to ch 44 (first wave) or 54 (lithium). I will talk to communicate with the scrub nurse, circulating nurse or anesthetist when necessary. But if it's delicate dissection such as peripheral nerve surgery or revision surgery through scarred tissue then I get pretty serious and the staff knows to keep it down. Once the critical portions of the case are over and we're closing etc, then we usually talk about stuff. But it's not like they show it on Gray's Anatomy!
Best,
Ben
I think most surgeons should listen to channel 54 on the Sirius channel (Lithium). HA!
Regards,
Jay.
Well ... I've been performing surgery since 1973. I find I'm in the minority - I won't have any music in the OR, or talk about non-surgery stuff when I'm operating. I like listening to music too much, and don't pay enough attention to what I should be doing; ditto visiting with people. I like to put all my focus on what I am doing or am just about to do. When the "real" surgery is over and we are just closing up, then I can talk about something other than the work at hand. I don't believe in multi-tasking. Maybe that trait is what allows me to negative split the marathon in an IM?
I don't like to talk and drive at the same time very much, either. Drives my wife nuts. But I asume the other cars are out to get me, and I feel I need all my wits to avoid them. People call me an "intense guy".
I like music and talk in my OR. We usually listen to whatever the OR scrub techs like.
Of note, William Halsted - the father of Neurosurgery- required all OR personnel to to refrain from talking as he was concerned that talking would lead to the production of airborne particles that would increase the risk of infection.
I don't think he would have been much fun to work with.
Tom
I am an anesthetist and will say ditto to the comments by Kit, Ben, & Thomas. For the most part, alot of talking depends on the surgeon preference. I have worked with some that want complete silence, to some that I would like to stuff a sock in their mouth.
Generally, the more delicate/hairy the procedure dictates the amount of conversation. Most ORs have music of some kind going.
I spent a year and a half as a surgical sales rep, spending pretty much every day in different OR's around my territory, working with a couple hundred docs. Big caveat, none of the surgeries I was in on were of the type where there was high risk of danger, so the level of focus was different versus, for example, open heart surgery.
What I observed was huge variation based on the surgeon and/or the surgical team. There were hospitals I called on which were always chatty, and others where you felt like if you spoke up (even to do your job), you were interrupting intense concentration.
But, during surgeries, I've had conversations on topics from the device I sold to area kids activities, to a local amateur soccer league, to dirty jokes. Guess it really depends.
Mike
Been in the room for 2 "C" sections with my wife and I 2nd and 3rd kids. Knowing the docs in the room and having similiar passions (fly fishing) we (docs and me) were actually told by my wife to cut down on the chit chat! Seemed like these guys could progress through this operation while carrying on conversations on what ever! That being said, I never once was concerned that they weren't paying attention and concentrating.
Additionally, good friend of mine is vascular surgeon and I have called his cell phone and it has been answered by one of the nurses during surgery and the nurse has held it to his ear!
I read that and thought: Gee, Halsted did it all, didn't he? Radical mastectomy AND brain surgery! I was just about to lament about how the Golden Age of Surgeons had past---not like I was alive at that time.
I am also an anesthetist. Ditto some of the other resposnes- depends on type of surgery. In our ORs, anesthesia for most part controls music. We usually use Pandora. As Gina said, there are some surgeons that I would also like to stuff a sock in their mouth. There are also some circulating nurses that need the sock
.
One of the neurosurgeons I work with, no matter what, we have to play the Lady GaGa Pandora station
( he's an older dude too) So 12 hrs of Lady GaGa I'm ready to stick sharp objects in someone myself 
I am a cardiothoracic surgeon. I totally think it's surgeon/personality specific. There is always music in my OR (OR playlist on the IPOD). There is also usually some type of chatter and light-hearted levity. I like to keep things light and funny. It keeps everyone calm, even in difficult situations. My experience is that no matter the complexity of the case, we can usually keep short conversations without being distracted from the task at hand if everything is moving along normally. It doesn't take much thought to carry on a conversation about some dumb thing the scrub tech did at happy hour last night.
But of course, if things change, obviously the chit-chat comes abruptly to a close until crisis averted. I don't even think it's a conscious thing. Everyone in the room's focus just shifts to the urgent matter at hand.
I'm an orthopedic surgeon
Hate to admit it but some of the talk in the room is pretty inappropriate....sex, flirting, (it tends to occur during the points in surgery where there is little stress....for us it's like closing the incision, waiting for the cement to dry, etc)
When things get serious the jibber/jabber goes away
For music.....anything is possible depending on what the nurse puts on
As a occ med doc, I dont do surgery, but sure saw a lot talking when I was a resident and med student. All depended on the surgeon.
On a side note...its amazing how many doctors we have here!
Lady GaGa....no way....I go with Metallica, Scorpions, Ac/Dc....
P
We can start Patrick's "smell poll" here :
My top 2 are dead bowel and gi bleed.
Next?
1. Dead bowel---especially colon
2. Perforated colon---the closer to the rectum, the longer the patient took to get to medical care...the stinkier
3. Peri-anal/Peri-rectal abscess
Ah, the perianal abcess thats a good one.
For me, its sebaceous cysts. And since I dont do much surgery, the next thing are narcotic drug seekers. They always smell like bullshit.
I agree with Gina. Dead bowel, Lower GI bleed and Necrotizing soft tissue infections ( NASTI).
In addition to smell, what about our ability to see some icky stuff then eat
. Last night we started our shift off with a very bad trauma, OR looked lie something from a horror movie. My coworker & I realized we better eat right after the case just in case we got slammed
95% of the physicians I know have at least three charactaristics quite helpful for the triahtlon lifestyle: ability to envision and sustain a focus on a long-term goal (it's often 10 years from applying to medical school to actually practicing medicine as a full fledged doctor), competitiveness (especially surgeons!) and, most important, $$$$. My Saturday ride group with my local tri club is centered on a local military base. More than half the riders are docs at the military hospital on base - and at least half of them are female, who share those same traits I noted.
What part of the body smells the worst? The only part which smells at all is the nose!
Not to change the subject but, when I was going under the knife for my 9+ hour surgery last May I asked my surgeon what his hydration and nutrition plan was. He didn't have a response, and I really don't remember much after that. I can't imagine how you stay focused and energized for some of the long cases!! There must be some way to get some sort of sustenance, right?
Yeah, my cereal isn't going down that well right now either!
@kitma, how about someone who has passed, in there apt for a week in the summer with the windows closed.
@Patrick ;@Nemo ;if I posted some of the things I have seen and done, well I think you may not eat for several weeks.
My longest surgery I assisted on was a 12 hour scoliosis case in residency. We took shifts eating a sandwich and peeing but the work continued. I wouldn't want to do that one again!
"most important, $$$$".....I have to buy my powermeters, Zipp wheels, and Felt B2 Pro.....Obamas 20% Medicare pay cut and drastically increasing my taxes should change the $$$$ to $ pretty soon!