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Seeking Reassurance

I would appreciate some testimonials from some Team EN repeaters. I'm doing IMWI (3rd time for that race and 5th IM). This year I'm in the 60-64 AG. Have the EN vets had strong marathon performances even if the longest training run was 2-1/2 hours? For me that would be about 15 miles. My friends are doing what I did in the past - bike workouts up to 115 miles and 22 mile training runs. I like the EN approach, especially since I got a power meter at the start of the year, but I am having some pangs of guilt when I'm not logging the longer miles. Now that IM training is in high gear, mind games are setting in and words of wisdom from others would be welcome!

Comments

  • Questions like this I like to dig into my training diary and learn a few things. So, looking just @ my "A" race IMs done while 60-64, here are the races, followed by ALL long runs done in the 12 weeks prior which were greater than 13 miles, by distance/time, followed by IM marathon time:

    09 IM CDA: 16.6/2:30, 14.74/2:15; 4:08

    09 IM AZ:  16/2:20, 16.34/2:27, 15.54/2:15; 4:03

    10 IM CDA: 14/2:07, 16.6/2:16, 17/2:21, 17.9/2:35; 4:15

    11 IM AZ: 13.7/1:55, 15.7/2:09, 16/:2:13, 4:14 (I had plantar fasciitis and did NO long run within 6 weeks of the race)

    12: IM HI: 15/2:12, 14/2:00, 17/2:31; 4:45 (heat plus nutrition problems on race day)

    13 IM AZ: 16/2:16, 15:2:04, 17.5/2:30, 4:11

    Conclusion: I generally do three long runs of 15-17 miles in the 12 weeks before an IM, with only one in the 2:30 range, and usually have a successful race.

  • Hi Todd, This is my first year in EN as well but I did a similar plan last year and did well (I'm 57). In fact research has shown that older athletes are good at endurance, it's speed that we lose. So the EN plan is actually better for older athletes because it focuses on interval and speed work first and endurance second. I did a stand alone marathon last year and did a personal best by over 7 minutes and I only did one run longer than 16 miles. The rest were 16 or less with tempo work.

    I'm less than three weeks from my IM this year and my last race rehearsal was the fastest 112 mile training ride I've ever done, so it seems to be working for me.

    Keep the faith!

  • So that's the data. Here's any you should feel reassured. Our long runs are different than those done by folks in other training plans. You have certainly noticed that we include some significant increase in pace/effort during the latter half of our long runs. That does several things: it increases the rTSS (the training stress achieved during the long run) compared to a slog at one's Long Run Pace. And, it mimics the agony we get into after 2:30 on race day, without having to beat up our legs for that long a period of time during training, so we can recover faster to get better quality training.

    Personally, I HATE running long. Anything over about 1:45-2 hours starts to macerate my thighs. I'd like to save that agony for the fewest, most important days - race day. Running the EN way gets me ready without making me hate my training. There is NO NEED for doing an extra credit work.

    Having said all that, you might want to check out this wiki post, which is meant for those who have concerns about being able to run for 4.5 hours + on race day.

    http://members.endurancenation.us/Resources/Wiki/tabid/91/Default.aspx?topic=Long+Run+Training+for+Ironman%2c+EN+Version

    You probably don't fall into this group, but for those with VDOT 31 or lower, there's this wiki post:

    http://members.endurancenation.us/R...1+or+LOWER

  • Thanks, Guys. This is great advice. My best IM by far was CDA in 2011, when I first shook up my training. Unfortunately my coach had me training long and slow in 2012 and 2013, and my times slipped badly. I knew I had to shake things up again this year, which is why I went with EN. I had a good 70.3 in early June, so the results so far are encouraging. But as my caption indicated, I needed a little comforting since my friends are into their mega-rides/runs. Looking forward to the big training weekend later this month.
  • Todd...I'm turning 60 this year and have been in EN since late 2010.  Like you, I was a skeptic at first that a 2.5 hour run would get me ready for the IM run.  But I followed the plan and it has worked great for me.  I'm a firm believer in the EN way.  The key, as Al said below, is that we push oursleves faster at the end of the long training run to simulate the feel of the last 8 miles of the IM run.  It is an amazing confidence builder when you know you can, and do, accelerate at the end of a long run.  But we don't destroy our legs with excess, junk mileage in training.  Last Thursday I ran 18 miles in exactly 2 hours 30 minutes averaging 8:19 pace/mile, but I ran miles 11, 13, 15 and 17 all at 7:25 pace to simulate the stress of the end of the IM run. 

    I've done 3 IMs and in each one I've had a faster run split after a faster bike split.  At IMWI last year, I ran a 4:08 marathon after a 5:51 bike split.  So I know it works.  Just remember, to race fast you gotta train fast.  Fast before far really works.  People who do long slow distance just learn how to go slow, and they don't get magically faster on race day.

  • Todd,

    Not only is the IM training around EN good stuff but I would argue the fact that all the plans are good. I too have been around for a few years and the reasons are #1 I have PR'ed every race I have entered including duathlon and marathon.
    #2, The knowledge around here that the members share is on target on practically any topic.

    My next IM will be when I'm 60 and retired as right now I don't have the time to train with my other commitments. As for you good luck and drink the EN kool aid, it is good.
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