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Ironman Run Pace - realistic expectations

I am racing IMLP in less than 2 weeks - my first full distance IM. I have been scouring the wiki, race reports, and whatever else I can get my hands on to help me formulate my race plan. I've read the coach's protocols on race execution for the IM. I've stuck to the training plan (for the most part) and am looking forward to the big day.

The thing that has piqued my curiosity here is what to expect from my run...realistically. If I were to go by what the suggested pacing dictates (for a VDOT=48/49), I would have a phenomenal run. But, something tells me that this is not realistic at the end of the day. Even after sticking to the correct watts on the bike and nailing nutrition, it seems almost all people's pace falls off at some point. Sometimes drastically. Is this a function of overestimating your capabilities on the bike? Or is it a case of setting the wrong pace on the run?

I guess what I'm asking is am I best off just sticking to the protocols in the wiki and adjust on race day as needed (Heart rate gets too high - slow the pace, etc)...especially this being my first IM?

Comments

  • Brad
    I am sure the WSMs will chime in as well.
    A conservative approach in da haus is to subtract 2-3 Vdot points from your 5 km Vdot and use that Vdot to plan your run target at that EP. So in your case, use a Vdot of 45-46 which gives you an IM run pace around 9:15 per mile.
    A number of peeps use heart rate to regulate their IM run — however, without IM runs to fine tune your approach, this is a little problematic.
    I try and use pace and heart rate to limit the damage I do to myself in the first half of the run.

  • Posted By Brad Marcus on 14 Jul 2014 06:04 PM

    I am racing IMLP in less than 2 weeks - my first full distance IM. I have been scouring the wiki, race reports, and whatever else I can get my hands on to help me formulate my race plan. I've read the coach's protocols on race execution for the IM. I've stuck to the training plan (for the most part) and am looking forward to the big day.

    The thing that has piqued my curiosity here is what to expect from my run...realistically. If I were to go by what the suggested pacing dictates (for a VDOT=48/49), I would have a phenomenal run. But, something tells me that this is not realistic at the end of the day. Even after sticking to the correct watts on the bike and nailing nutrition, it seems almost all people's pace falls off at some point. Sometimes drastically. Is this a function of overestimating your capabilities on the bike? Or is it a case of setting the wrong pace on the run?

    I guess what I'm asking is am I best off just sticking to the protocols in the wiki and adjust on race day as needed (Heart rate gets too high - slow the pace, etc)...especially this being my first IM?

    Good question! There are many things to consider:

    • Start with the E-pace of VDot, which is pretty much your "best case, if everything goes right, this would be a good run for me" pace. As you know by now (we hope!), you want to add 30" per mile to this for the first 6 miles, then your goal is to drop into this pace after miles 6, then hang on as best you can after mile 18.
    • You no doubt have a lot of experience with your HR and RPE at or around this pace. You'll bounce these metrics off of ^these^ paces...
    • And for IMLP specifically, you'll need to do the Smart Guy thing for the first ~3 miles, which are almost all downhills and therefore pace isn't the best guy. You metric here should be "Stupid Easy." You know what Stupid Easy feels like and what HR that is. That's what you want to run the first 3mi, then next to the river you should see Stupid Easy pace at your SE HR and RPE. 
    • The same is true when you run back into town, pretty much all up hill: you know what your E-Pace feels like. You'll want to feel that, and see that HR when you run back into town, and do the Smart Guy thing on the pace you're seeing on those climbs. 
    • Finally, there's the question of what you do, how tough you are, frankly, when it gets really, really hard in the last 8 miles, particularly at IMLP when you make the right at the end of River Road and start heading into town. That right happens at about mile 22. That's a very, very shitty place to put hills like that on an Ironman run course and your non-running self can go backwards to your running self. 

    As a first time Ironman athlete, your number one goal should be to execute the best race you can, with your definition of proper execution being which sets up the run. And specific to IMLP, it's about setting up that last 4-5 miles of the run. So whenever you find yourself about to make a run pacing decision on the course, always frame it within the requirements of this last 4-5 miles. 

  • I've got nothing to add to what Peter and Rich have already said about race day guidance. But .. you are now entering a two week period when you can drive yourself nuts over-thinking the upcoming race, or dwelling on it obsessively. You're ready, your body's ready, and you just wanna race tomorrow, and since you aren't training as much, your excess energy is building up. Find some other stuff to occupy your mind - watching the Tour, earn some SAUs by going out to see a movie or eat, limit your time on the EN forums, whatever, just get the race out of your head for at least 23 hours every day.

    Like Rich says, follow the rules and don't get ahead of yourself on race day, and you're gonna do just fine. Remember, "Process is our most important product."

  • Hey Brad, congrats on getting this far and best of luck on what will hopefully be an amazing day. You just heard from some of the smartest guys in the IM biz, so listen to them before me. I've only done 6 of these suckers, never LP, but I know who and what it is. My response to your last question is, both - run according to plan and feel/HR. The coaches' execution plan is spot-on - believe in it. Yes, 95% of the field will positive split the run. 140.6 is a really long way, and negative splitting the run is a thing left for the truly gifted/elite or those who start way too slowly and leave time on the table. But those who seriously positively split it are the undertrained and/or the poorly executing. You're neither. The swim is the swim. It's nothing more than a prelude to a long day. Execute both TAs with purpose and precision - do not waste time in there (i.e., 8-min transitions only extend a very long day, which does not help). The bike is where you execute flawlessly - your watts, hydration, nutrition, and sodium. No negotiating about going harder on two wheels - you nail it. The first 5-6 miles on the run you play defense. 30 seconds + LRP is your limiter. If plan says 9s, you don't run sub-9 unless you're screaming downhill. But likewise never use pace as a whip to run yourself into a wall. If you're running uphill, you don't run 9s. You slow down and run the LRP that you should know by feel (RPE) and/or HR. Keep the effort in check. Hopefully, Miles 6-18 or so are smooth. But, again, if you're pointed uphill or feel bad, yes, you slow down. The last 3-8 miles will almost certainly get difficult. Perhaps ridiculously difficult, especially at LP. This is Ironman. Seriously prepare for that. Mentally. If your mindset at that point is, "I've had a good day, this is my first IM, I'm happy with what I've done, so I'll just . . . (slow down, walk, sit in the porto-john for a bit, take a short nap, etc.), then you're probably walking with the rest of the masses. Eliminate all sentences that include "I"ll just . . ." This is where you repay the huge debt you owe your training self. The last 60-90 minutes is largely mental. Just get it done. It will probably suck. But the Suck always ends. Most of all, make an effort to really enjoy the day. It's one you'll never forget. Just my two cents, based on many lessons learned, some the hard way, some the right way. Look forward to following your success on race day.
  • I find this chart to be accurate for some best case scenario window estimates.... However it does not factor in heat, hills, wind.

    Looks like the header got cut out in the picture file.... WHEN are the photo uploads going to become EASY?  very annoying

    Anyway the first column is your vdot, 2nd column is 10k and HM times, 3rd column is 10k/HM paces , 4th column is HIM predicted run times at 90% and 95% FT , last column is your IM predicted run times at 75% and 80% FT.

  • Thanks for all this info - you guys are the best.

    @Peter - I've heard this guidance around here on occasion, but it's not published in the wiki. But very helpful guidance

    @Coach R- great detailed info. I discussed the run with Coach P at LP camp and he was on the same page as you with this. Thanks for reinforcing.

    @Mike R- great overall info - with 6 under your belt, you still haven't forgotten how it feels going into the first - I appreciate this.

    @Al - my favorite advice - I'm an "over thinker" (as most of us are around here). Lots of self questioning going on. Am I ready? Will I get through this? Etc. I understand the point of the taper, but boy is it bad timing in terms of leaving us with too much extra time to think and think. Your point is taken - thanks!

    @Tim - that chart makes sense, but this is what I'm referring to in terms of finish times - I'd be thrilled with those end results, but I'm not expecting them. You are one of the few here who are able to stick to the splits throughout the IM run. Yes, heat, wind and hills can all be factors for me on raceday, especially in LP. My biggest foe may be overall fatigue. I guess time will tell, since my RR was only 1/4 of the run. Thanks!

    My plan will be start with z1+30 and see how that feels. As Rich mentions, the downhills heading out town (and the crowds) will probably need me to really focus on going stupid slow. I had to focus on my RR to do this getting off the bike since I started at 60secs faster than I should've. At that point, I'll have to take other things into consideration. How do I feel? Where is my HR? As MIke R, I cannot use pace as a whip! I'll use it as a governor. Thanks again for the input - super helpful!
  • @Brad--- that chart is best case scenario's --- Execute like an EN ninja and let your pace take care of itself .... Its not about how fast you can go but about not slowing down and not walking.... Its good to think about but don't obsess over it.... Re - read Coach R's post and think about what Al said about "process".... FWIW it took me 8 tries to beat my EP on the IM run and that was on a cool, dry, flat course!
  • Just to add my personal experience at IMLP, after racing there 6x my 7th last year, I finally learned to keep it under control the first time out of town. However, the second time in town I was feeling so good from great pacing, I forgot to keep it under control and burned a few extra matches and cost me some minutes later in the second half. My point being; stupid slow first time out of town and becareful the second time out as you will feel the energy of the crowds and the downhills and you must not let it misguide you.

  • Posted By tim cronk on 15 Jul 2014 04:20 AM

    I find this chart to be accurate for some best case scenario window estimates.... However it does not factor in heat, hills, wind.

    Looks like the header got cut out in the picture file.... WHEN are the photo uploads going to become EASY?  very annoying

    Anyway the first column is your vdot, 2nd column is 10k and HM times, 3rd column is 10k/HM paces , 4th column is HIM predicted run times at 90% and 95% FT , last column is your IM predicted run times at 75% and 80% FT.

     

    Rich: Tim, I inserted the table for you. Thanks for sharing this!



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