Home Community Forum 🏠

WTC's New Cancellation Insurance

Just signed up for IMLP, and was offered the opportunity to buy cancellation insurance for $90. Insurance to me is a bet - what are the odds I will incur the incident I'm insuring against, compared to the cost of the incident. This one is actually a very easy calculation. I know the cost of the ins ($90), the cost of the race ($725), and the frequency in my life of the occurrence (3 DNS in 27 IM registrations.) That works out to 1/9 >>> $80. So the insurance fee was close enough to the odds it might happen that I went ahead and bought it. FYI, all three of my previous DNS would have been covered: IMLP in 2002, my mother went into the ICU a week before the event; 2010, my own injury into the ICU kept me out of two IMs that fall. So it can and does happen.

Oh, I also had to renew my USAT membership, which I did for three years (no discount for multiple years!), which made the grand total - just to register; travel and housing still to come - at just a tick under 4 figures. Where will it all end?

Comments

  • I'm about to back out of Chattanooga this year- wish this had existed when I registered last year. Bye bye money...
  • I am zero cancellations for 7 although I am sure it will happen. But I look at insurance across all commodities and services except for life, medical, home and auto. Any other insurance is just paying to avoid an inconvenience because the loss is not catastrophic. Add up all those appliance warranties, AAA, dental, etc, and what are you paying relative to your losses? This is just another way to get more money out of people. I'm glad it's there for those who want it but Americans as a group vastly over insure themselves against non-catastrophic risk and spend way too much money on protection as a result because they are comparmentalizing the risks into narrow categories.
  • I know Ironman is using this as a money maker, but I it's much easier for me to swallow $90 than whatever the race fees are. But then again, we all know this sport is where money goes to die.
  • Al, who was offering the insurance?
  • I'm 1 for 9 the same odd's as Al... My 1 DNS was IMMT last year (broken collarbone just inside the $150 rebate window) I sent the RD an email and they didnt even respond back to me (I did get a really nice $700 back pack) ... Basically insurance companies suck , they are betting you show up and your betting your not gonna show up , its an odd's game , and just like the casino's they win... Yes its a necessary evil in Normal Life , house , car, etc.... I'm still waiting to be made whole from being re-ended in Tucson last winter (rental car and deductible re-imbursement).... So collecting is also a PIA.... I may be the minority thinking that we get a fairly good value for our money at a WTC race but I'll be damned if I'm gonna give them anymore...Its more of a principle thing than anything... IMO there is no reason they can't transfer slots , waiting lists, etc for these races ... Would cost nothing and would provide a better service..... I also figure if I can't make it , I have bigger things to worry about than money... SO I vote NO to Race Insurance...
  • Any word on what they do with slots that aren't used? Will they be offering windows to sign up even after it's sold out for those spots that free up or will they just race with fewer participants?
  • The alternative is Rev3. I switch my HIM to the OLY distance - no questions asked, no additional $$ spent, just a "no problem, we can take care of that and thanks for choosing Rev3" Rev3 will also let you defer to the following years race - they issue you a credit. Finally, Rev3 also lets you transfer your entry to another athlete if you can't make it.

    Rev3 Rocks!
  • At Jeremy, sold out races are already overbooked so don't plan on them opening up more slots. Same as the airlines.
  • They probably figure they can oversell even more with the insurance making it more tempting for some to bail.

  • Posted By <a href='http://members.endurancenation.us/ActivityFeed/tabid/61/userid/5/Default.aspx' class='af-profile-link'>Patrick McCrann</a> on 23 Jul 2014 06:24 AM
    Al, who was offering the insurance?
    It was offered as part of the sign up process, thru a third party. WTC hadsent out an announcement about this earlier this month.
  • FWIW, I spent about 3 months looking for a provider to do this for EN as a member benefit. Really couldn't get it done, but thought it would be an awesome addition to your membership.

    Maybe one of you smart gals / guys can put your smartypants cap on and outline something that's a no brainer for EN to make happen? Like our First Finish program for newbies....would love to make sure you guys aren't screwed, without getting screwed. image

  • Posted By Paul Hough on 23 Jul 2014 07:39 PM


    Same as the airlines.

    Now there's a ringing endorsement.

  • Seems you need a bit more data, but I think the folks on the team would definitely give it to you.  I'm not terribly quant-literate, but seems to me that if Al is a reasonable baseline, then it's 1/9.  If cost =725, then you need 9 people to finish for each one that starts if premium = 80.  But that's Al--a seasoned triathlete with incredible discipline.  

    I think the fact that someone signs up for EN lowers the risk as opposed to a general member of the public.   WTC is offering insurance to people who think "wow that would be cool" without the foggiest idea of what goes into it.  As RnP have written, "90 percent of the field doesn't know what they're doing."  

    They're paying for a service that gives them coaching and feedback designed to prevent them from hitting a literal or figurative brick wall.  How to quantify the random risks (bike crashes, mad calf, plantar F, pulls of varying degrees of suck) I don't know but I'd think there had to be some literature on those points.  Plus there are things you could do that limit exposure: e.g., Iron distance only events, injury or life event required; minimum number of months of membership required before policy-eligible.   "I skipped all the long rides in the 3 months prior to the event" is not a valid excuse.  You have to write the terms for the "bad man" (or "bad woman"), but there are not very many of those here.  This is a pretty good risk pool.

    If there's anyone in the Haus that knows the insurance business, I'd talk to them about how this could be done.  My only other question would be regulatory: in other words, if you offer this to the public (or to members) do you have to jump through any regulatory hoops?

  • P - I don't think you can do it in a way that doesn't expose EN to big risks. As I understand the WTC policy is underwritten by an insurance firm that has done the detailed actuarial work to understand their exposure. They are bearing the risk (not WTC), and they also have a much bigger portfolio to balance it with so if they make a bad bet in one area, they can offset it by a good bet in others. Kind of like the insurance companies that have make all kinds of $$ selling hurricane insurance the last few years with limited claims...that covers poorer performing areas in their portfolio. They also have a much larger population (dozens of races with a couple thousand participants each). If they are off by 10 people that $7500 can be offset. If you are off by 10 people it's a much bigger hit to absorb.

    You also have the customer relations risk....insurance companies play hardball and have an army of lawyers, etc to investigate questionable claims, etc. Not sure you really want to do this with someone that is paying you primarily to be their coach.

    IMO...stick with what you do well. I suspect the amount you'd need to charge to be safe would be well beyond the value that EN members would see and also well beyond the cost the WTC can deliver for a similar protection.
  • I think insurance appeals to both ends of the range- the really unprepared/stupid person who realizes they can't do an IM after all. Then there is also the competitive athlete, who has a slight injury/ache. Normally, maybe they'd push through knowing their PR/KQ chances are lower, but it might be a whole lot more tempting to pull out if they are only losing $90.
  • FYI … Here is the actual text for the terms and conditions of the insurance policy; each of my three DNS would have been covered. Note that Rachel's examples might not be sufficient for coverage:





    We will reimburse the Registration Fee you paid if you are unable to participate in the Covered Event for any one of the following reasons:


    1. You suffer from an Injury or an unforeseen Illness, normal pregnancy, or childbirth including unforeseen complications of pregnancy which prevents you from participating in the Covered Event. A Qualified Medical Practitioner must certify that you are not able to participate in the Covered Event.

    2. You are on Active Military Duty and receive unanticipated reassignment or deployment orders or revocation of personal leave, except for disciplinary reasons. You must provide us a copy of the orders you receive.

    3. You are directly involved in a traffic Accident on the day of the Covered Event that causes either: an Injury to you or damage to the automobile that creates an immediate need for repair to ensure the safe operation of the vehicle and prevents your attendance at the Covered Event.

    4. You are not able to arrive in time to participate in the Covered Event due to a delay by the Common Carrier you used for transportation to the Covered Event location.

    5. Any Injury or an unforeseen Illness, normal pregnancy, or childbirth including unforeseen complications of pregnancy occurring to your Family Member. Your Family Member must be examined by a Qualified Medical Practitioner within 72 weekday hours of the date of the Covered Event.

    6. Your automobile having a Mechanical Breakdown within 48 hours of the Covered Event which results in the vehicle being inoperable to be driven to the Covered Event.

    7. You, after having been with the same employer for at least three continuous years, are terminated or laid off, through no fault of your own, after you enroll as a participant in the Covered Event.

    8. You or Your spouse are relocated by your or your spouse's current employer to a location that is at least 100 miles from your primary residence.

    9. The death of your Family Member. You must provide us a copy of the death certificate via a process outlined in the benefit request form.

    We Will Not Pay:

    We will not reimburse the Registration Fee you paid for the Event if you are unable to participate in the Event due to:


    1. An intentionally self-inflicted injury or self-inflicted sickness

    2. Physical complications resulting from alcohol or substance abuse

    3. Natural disasters (unless as specifically covered)

    In addition to the exclusions above, we will not reimburse the Registration Fee you paid for the Event if:


    1. You have not made your full payment of the Registration Fee prior to the Event date;

    2. The Event is cancelled by the Event administrator for any reason (including bad weather) unless as covered herein;

    3. You cross the start line on the day of the Event;

    4. You:


      1. Make changes to personal plans OR

      2. have a business or contractual obligation that prevents you from participating in the Event.




  • My view on this is to bundle it with travel insurance which is cheaper. you pick the value, so I bundle in the flight, any non-cancellable reservations (car, hotel, etc) race entry, if I can't get any refund from TBT (they have some policy), their fee, and anything else, usually comes out way cheaper than what IM is claiming.

    btw in 2012(the year of my false diagnosis) when i had to bail on IMMT & IMFL, I got nothing for IMMT despite the pleadings of the IMFL RD to his friend, the IMMT RD, but did get a full refund out of IM for FL... was in shock when I saw the check.
  • I believe it's an insurance company called Allianz, which is the same one that does travel/flight insurance. For flights, it's particularly limiting with the terms and conditions.

    For example, for my first trip to Mallorca Spain to go cycling, way back in 2011, I bought it. But after reading the T&Cs, "training or racing in a sport" is usually exempt from coverage. That's the main reason I bought it!

    My point, be sure to read the T&Cs and don't assume it'll cover every scenario!
  • I was just about to post about this issue when I found this thread. I paused at the insurance offer and thought about it long enough for my session to time out and I had to start over! In the end, I decided to not get it. I am of the same thought process as Paul Hough. I typically decline all insurance addons and only cover the big stuff, like life, health, home.
  • I was going to type up a big rant about this but thought it would be a waste. WTC is a company and they are looking at making as much money as possible. They are offering more and more races, and offering other options to make them more money. The Insurance is a way for someone else to make money. Can we fault them?

    some will spend money on the insurance, some will not. Me, I will not spend it. If i get hurt and cannot race, well it sucks, nothing i can do. I will also lose a boat load on travel, housing, and other things because of deposits. Its a Risk. But adding another $90 to my race registration is just too much for me. It puts the races out of reach for me financially. I just have issues justifying the costs.

    OK, i know what others are thinking, spend $1000's on training, travel, and lodging, what is another $90. I just have this idea of how much i am willing to spend on a race, and thats too much.
Sign In or Register to comment.