Boost my Run mojo
OK, so here are some basic data points:
April 2008 5k 6;43 pace VDOT 47
Sept 2008 5 mile test 6:57 pace VDOT 47
Feb 2009 7:18 pace (Open Half Mary) VDOT 48
April 2009 5k 6:35 pace VDOT 49
Feb 13 2010 21:49 5k (7:02 pace) 5k race VDOT 45
April 10 2010 44:55 10k race (7:10 pace) VDOT 46
In Oct of 2008 I ran a 3:35 open marathon which was a major PR for me. In Nov of 2009 I had a meltdown on the IMFL course. Since IMFL I've not done much as I had an injury. As you can see, my VDOT goes from 45-49 but never any higher than that which is a bit frustrating. I'd really like to improve this area somehow but over the last year plus with EN and going through OSP and IM training plan, it just can't seem to do much better than 49.
I know I lost a good bit of fitness from Dec-Feb. I suffered a stress fx which sidelined me from ANY running during that time. Starting in mid Feb I was able to jump back into the OSP for this year and can see that my VDOT has gone from 45 to 46 from Feb 13 to April 10. I'm somewhat encouraged by that.
I've been meeting or exceeding all workouts prescribed by the OSP. I have skipped one or two runs, mainly the optional bricks post long ride on the wknds, but then again, I have the luxury of riding outside and have been riding longer than prescribed.
I'm on week 12/20 of my OSP. I suspect I need to sit back and let the OSP work it's magic but could use some folks chiming in to tell me all will be well! I certainly would love to get back to a 49 VDOT and even exceed that if at all possible. Just could use some reassurance that I'm on track and it will all come out in the wash! Or tell me that this is my limit and that's it; either way, anyone who wanted to comment is welcome.
Thanks
NTG
Comments
NTG,
all is not lost. I highly doubt that 49 is a hard ceiling for you. The biggest driver for you at this point will be consistency with doing the work. Seems like there've been a lot of points where you've been on the verge, but something (injury, big race) came up. I'd say, take the next 8 weeks, follow the plan, and watch the gains.
Good luck!
Mike
You'll see 49 again for your vDot. It's just going to take some time. So what Mike said: stay consistent with the work and you'll get there.
IIRC it is a Hal Higdon quote but "never go 2 days without running". I think never go 3 days without running 2 of them is actually better. If you want to get back to where you are skipping runs in the OS plan because you are riding longer is not the answer. There are really not that many runs in the OS plans to start with. Especially after a long layoff you just need to run more, sensibly building back up obviously.
Seems very unlikely that you [or anyone else really for that matter] is limited by some genetic ceiling in terms of run pace until you get to Vdots that start with a 6. For most of us it is a combination of body composition and willingness to hurt that are the limiters.
When I said I was skipping some running I should have been more specific. There is one run I have occasionally skipped, and that is the 15 min brick run at MP post ride. I have a hard time thinking that missing that one run one or two weeks is holding me back from a 55+ VDOT!
When I was doing nothing but marathon training in Fall 2008 I was running 5 sometimes 6 days a week, with a lot of Tempo runs and usually a LR on the wknds. Still didn't get a VDOT any higher than 49. So I guess my limiter at that point is either my training methodology or my motivation. Now I did manage to cut 30 mins off my open marathon time, so I think my training methods were working out OK. I am 72" tall, 170 lbs and 5% BF. Have been sinc Dec 2007 so hard for me to improve body comp much. Looks like I need to work on willingness to hurt!
Hey James,
Just my take here, but another thing you might think about is looking at your running form. There are several forum posts about running efficiency (economy) and form - I'd take a look through those and see if there's something that might be holding you back from that perspective.
At 6' 170 you should be able to fly like the wind. Get out there and suffer!
Thanks Mike.
In January 2008 I transitioned to Pose running. It has improved my run times for every event I do (Navy 1.5 mi run, 5k, 10k half mary and marathon). I attribute Pose for helping me achieve a breakthrough in running form. Now I need another breakthrough! 50 VDOT or bust!!
I'll bite. So in addition to the OSP which I'm currently doing, what else need I do to boost my run mojo and hit the magic 50 VDOT?
Read books and watch movies about Steve Prefontaine.
Read The Perfect Mile by Neal Bascomb.
Read Best Efforts by Kenny Moore.
That's good for starters!
50 VDOT is a great goal, nice round number. A 5k time with "teen" in it is a cool thing. As for what you should do in addition to the OS I think the answer is not much. The whole point of the run program in the OS plans are to improve vdot. Keep doing what you are doing and you should be all set.
As Daniels suggests, when you are running and you feel that you can not hold on the to the pace, try speeding up a little...
Watching movies about running can't hurt I guess
I'm confused.
On the one hand I hear "get out there and suffer more" on the other hand, I hear "keep doing what you are doing and you should be all set". Since those two are mutually exclusive, I'd assume one is good advice, the other is tongue in cheek and I'm not able to discern which one is the right one to follow.
Don't know how watching a movie about Steve Prefontaine is going to boost my run VDOT. Seems to me that if I'm watching a movie then I'm NOT running...can't see how to improve that way.
James,
I'm not much of a runner but here's what I see in this thread. I think the point to get all the runs in is a good one. I know that a 15' run will not do that much for your 50 vdot but it will help with the durability especially coming back from the injury.
As for the 'suffer more' or 'follow the plan' I don't see those mutually exclusive. There is plenty of points in the OS to suffer. Ensure that you are hitting the targets on the track workout and follow the plan; ensure that you suffer on the vdot test so that you training is harder for the next 6-8 weeks.
There are also documents in the wiki about focusing on the bike or run. If you ultimate goal of the OS is to hit a 50 vdot then maybe you need to talk with Coach P about hacking the plan.
Gordon
I agree with Mike G. Consistency is key. In 2008 I took about 2 months off of training after my first Ironman. The following year of training my running was inconsistent and I saw my vDot stay pretty much level. The last 5 months I've seen the first significant jump in vdot in the last couple years. The only thing I can point to significantly different is greater consistency (making sure I run at least 3 times a week), particularly with a focus on hitting interval and speedwork runs. I've also gotten a shot in the arm (or legs) from going back and reading "Chi Running" and refreshing my memory of the keys to an ideal stride.
Eric
Well, last week I ran all but one of the OS runs (15' brick run, didn't have the time).
In fact, my OS runs this week were intervals....1000m to be precise at Z5. I took Chris' advice to heart and did them 25" faster than Z5. Maybe that will help. Also, did an unscheduled 3 mi run this morning to add some "consistency" and help with "durability".
Looks like the runs this week are a repeat of last week; so I'll run at Z5+ in hopes of suffering more when & where I can. Hoping my extra run I threw in for fun will work out as well.
James,
Sorry to drop out for the last week or so. travel does a world of hurt on my participation here...
A word of caution. These plans are the real deal. Doing them as written gets the job done. Most athletes do not need to run harder or longer than the plan says in order to see gains. Follow the plan. It works.
Going big time over the recommended paces, in addition to a bunch of hard FTP work, requires some serious focus on rest. Most of us don't have that kind of time in life. It's possible, but not always a smart gamble.
If you're having a hard time workign the 15' brick in on the day it's scheduled, see if you can find another day to squeeze in 20' or so. Frequency is important, and it does make a difference.
You're a mentally strong athlete, which is a blessing and a curse. Blessing when push comes to shove. Curse when one starts seeking answers to difficult questions, because one can start doing n=1 experiments. A bunch of us have been there, and the consensus is that the odds are not on your side on that one.
Mike