Should I bump from INT to ADV?

Brad Marcus

I'll state right off the bat that according to R n P's guidelines in the wiki I do not qualify as a candidate for the Advanced training plans by my finish times in the 70.3's that I've raced as well as the one full distance that I completed this year. According to those guidelines, I am a solid Intermediate candidate. That being said, I am reviewing this past year's results and see little time improvement in my run and bike tests although I did hit my workouts with gusto and usually was able to hit the prescribed time and power targets. Those bike and run times ultimately lead to the paces that we set on race day. I will also admit that in my first full distance race this Summer, my execution seemed to hurt me, albeit mostly from what appears to be in the form of nutritional issues.

In an effort to just get faster, would it be a good or bad idea to bump my plans this year from INT to ADV if I have the wherewithal and can stave off injury? Or am I better off just trying to bust through what appears to be run and bike plateaus or dare I say it... age catching up with me . I turn 44 in November.... I appreciate any advice or comments from the group...thx!

kimmydct

N=1... I have struggled with this in the past, but with Beg vs. Int. I am def. not a Beginner, I'm just slow. Here is what I did... I did the Int plan when I could, and if I felt I was struggling, I dropped back down a level. That might be dangerous for the OS though as it creeps up and bites you anyway, even on the "right" plan level.

I say "try it" but only if you're generally in tune with how you're feeling etc. and won't get too caught up in dropping down a level. (from an ego perspective) But you're a pretty level-headed guy so I'm sure you won't have that issue.

Good luck! Interested in seeing what the coaches have to say!

Swanie

I was on the Int IM Plan for my build to IMCdA in June. After transitioning into my build for IMMd (Sept 21) I switched to Adv Plan to get the extra run volume. Since switching the second week of July my run Vdot has not changed (51) but instead of my runs being drudgery they are comfortable, even the 18ers. This will no doubt make the IM run on race day more successful.The difference from Int to Adv is mainly the two extra runs per week and some intensity in all 3 sports. My opinion is that run volume is the key to run breakthroughs. 

Al Truscott

Long work is the same, adv has a few more runs, a bit more in the intervals. Better to do Adv and be willing to take a day off now and then when your body (fatigue or joint twinge, tendonitis) insists on it. Rule #1: don't drive the plan into a brick wall. I've seen a fair number of heros in wko volume/intensity who were close to zeros on race day. And the converse...well rested folk, by choice or circumstance, who succeed beyond expectations when the chips are down.
As steve alludes, the last 3 months before an IM is NOT the time to get faster; its the time to build the ability to carry what speed you have all day long.

Edwin Croucher

@Brad, I agree with Al. I would also take the time between now and the OS to add some bike volume at a higher than IM intensity. As for age, I am still getting faster each year. There are some very notable members who have continued to improve each year. Do a search on athlinks of our members and you will see the improvement. One member has taken nearly 2 hours off of IMLP in 9 years of training.

Dawn Cass

I would agree with the posts and give it a try. I was also debating which plan this year and stuck to INT. In the end I will not be racing anymore this year due to injury however that's a separate issue altogether! What I would say is agree with listening to your body..if you have twinges STOP/ drop a level. Also if you find you are not hitting ADV targets it can be demotivated so I would say see how it goes.

With being injured this year and only able to race one 70.4 (am bowing out of Madison) I would say the balance you need to be so so critical on is pushing to much (even if you feel healthy) and getting faster. Can be a fine line...

Let us know what you do.

Brad Marcus

Thanks for the feedback folks. At most I may do a couple of Oly's and a couple of Half Mary's for the remainder of the season so I have some time to knock this idea around. What everyone says makes sense and I have to remind myself that nothing here is set in stone. I've put my 'A' race on the calendar for next season (IMMT), but nothing else yet, so before I submit anything to Coach R, I'll give it some more thought. #1 priority, as a few of you have elluded to, is not to drive myself into the ground!

scott dinhofer

I did not meet the definition based on my Pre 2012/13 break (3 IMs in the 13.5 hr range) I also knew i changed my body comp and was performing much faster and set an expectation to perform solidly in the advanced plan Zone.
I vote for going for it.

I urge you to heed Al T's comments above. Listen to your body. You can always scale back a WKO and do one long interval instead of 2, or do 3 half mile intervals instead of 2 one mile intervals, etc.

and you CAN always go back to the Intermediate plan and hack those WKOs upwards with what you learn by doing the ADV plans.

Let me know when you are riding and we can knock out the big stuff together, I often go through Ridgefield, No reason why we can't start / end in Purdy's, etc.

Brad Marcus

@Scott - thanks for the advice. Glad to meet for a bike ride anytime, although I'm not doing anything too long right now. Let me know where and when!

So I've loaded in the advanced Half Marathon plan for a race that is 4-5 weeks out. The problem that I have is that since training for IMLP, my endurance has increased but I seem to have lost a good amount of z4 / z5 speed - I'd guess 1-2 VDOT points. I'm not sure how some of you are able to bounce from long to short course races and are able to perform well regardless. I felt a lot faster at this time last year. Also, with the heat this week in the Northeast, I've had to run by HR rather than pace lately. Or, maybe I'm still fatigued from an IM 6 weeks ago? Anyway, I'll stick with the Adv plan, using discretion to pull back, and see how I fare. Thanks all.