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TO SUPLEMENT OR NOT TO SUPLEMENT .... THAT IS THE QUESTION

I have been using various suplements for a few years now (pre-workout - post-workout - evening, as prescribed by my "endurance expert" nutricionist) and together with significantly improved eating habits, the truth is my recovery is now quite good, even during IM Adv prep phaase (which I´m currently in for IMFL Nov. 1st) and body comp better than ever (I´m 55).

Now, the more I read about it, the more I find extreme postitions from "need none" all the way to "need all" and my educated guess is that (a) the "truth" lies somewhere in the middle and obviously (b) there is no no size fits all answer for this billion dollar question.

My question, for those that train/WORK VERY HARD (which I do), pursue FOP performances (which I do) and are willing to share their personal experience/knowledge is: which is YOUR RECEPIE? (understanding there is no correct/incorrect answer here but just the potential for shared knowledge which can benefit many ..... I´m sure I will).

Comments

  • Personally I don't use any supplements.

    That said, I do eat a lot of manufacutred "sports foods" like gels and protein bars.
  • Juan, FWIW I think you hit the nail on the head with what you mentioned in your "educated guess"

    What I would add to that though, is the following:

    1. Anytime you can eliminate, or at least reduce guessing, and be more objective in determining what if any supplements would be needed or beneficial to you, then that's a good thing. That's what a good blood test (1-2x/year maybe) can do for you. The caveat to that advice, is to try and find someone who is more nutritionally minded, or who does functional medicine. This is so that the tests that are done, AND the way they are evaluated are not from a "looking for disease" alone perspective, but will be geared toward looking to find more subtle problems in an an attempt to maximize health (that's you right?), and/or prevent issues.

    2. For me, I add to the above practice some good ole common sense. For example....We spend HOURS, and HOURS in our chosen sport "processing" lot's of oxygen. This creates "oxidative stress" which causes the formation of damaging free radicals within our bodies. The negative results of all this oxidative stress/free radical production can range from increased aches and pains, to it possibly being a contributing factor to more serious negative health results.....honestly the jury is out on this, but the logic is pretty sound. So to me it just makes sense to take some supplemental anti-oxidant support, IN ADDITION (hence it's called a "supplement") to a diet rich in natural anti-oxidants (fruits and veggies/plant based). I personally have noticed less aches/pains and improved recovery with certain types ("glutathione" and tumeric extract), but honestly I would continue to take it even if I didn't notice any observable difference, because of what I know biochemically, and my goal for a long healthy life.

    This is definitely a topic that will get a wide variety of responses, but that's my .02
  • @ Steve a recent study showed that large doses of anti-oxidant supplements caused the body to decrease the natural production of anti-oxidants. so one needs to avoid the if some is good then...

    I plan to start optygenHP when I start the OS and currently I take Omega 3 caps daily. Healthy diet and post workout protein bar or Ultragen. Hopefully JW will give us the breakdown of all his supplements and what they might be doing for him.

    I'm just not sure though how blood work could help guide supplements.
  • @ Robert....Totally agree with NOT taking large doses and subscribing to the "more is better" mindset.

    You might find it interesting that OptygenHP,( which I don't specifically take, but do use many of the main ingredients), contains ingredients that:

    1. work on normalizing cortisol....like Rhodiola. I take some of that herb and a couple others that also have the same "adaptogenic" effect on cortisol and adrenal function, but only during times of high training stress. "Phosphatidylserine" , an endogenously produced phospholipid that can be taken in supplemental form works very well along with these adaptogenic herbs when cortisol levels are off....common cause of poor/interrupted sleep during high training cycles.
    2. Increase oxidative protection....like Cordyceps, or the replacement ingredient Eleutheroccus, which have an "antioxidant" effect by helping to "recycle" glutathione in the body by chemically changing it from it's oxidated state to it's reduced state.
    3. Help glycogen and insulin function (thus helping blood sugar regulation)....like chromium.

    About blood work....Standard tests, especially when evaluated from a "functional" perspective, which is what I meant when stating "the way they are evaluated"(the ranges used represent the optimal range, rather than the range derived via bell curve average from the lab. Bell curve averages work for picking up pathology, but not so well in identifying subtle metabolic dysfunction),can pick up a number of issues. For ex.

    1. CBC...can id macrocytic (B12 need) or microcytic (iron need) anemias
    2. Iron profile...Ferritin, TIBC, etc. for iron need....not an uncommon problem in endurance athletes
    3. Specific vitamins, like Vit. D can be measured. Vit. D deff. is very common.
    4. CRP levels....an elevation can indicate systemic inflammation, oftentimes from unchecked oxidative stress like we've been talking about

    Beyond these "standard' tests, are a host of other markers more common to nutritionists and those who practice functional medicine that can be checked, as well as more unique tests if warranted.One example is a salivary hormone test to measure cortisol levels....mentioned above when discussing OptygenHP.

    Anyway, back to Juan....hope this is helpful, or at least interesting image

  • I am big on fresh fruit and vegetables, particularly green leafy ones. I have a big salad for lunch every day (plus some protein and carbohydrate) and a big serving of green and white veg at night (eg Brussel sprouts, broccoli, beans, zucchini, cabbage etc).
    Apart from that I take Fish Oil (3000 mgs a day), and a multi vitamin.
    I also regularly eat cold water fish (3 times a week, wild salmon, tune and cod).
  • Very interesting thread! As a 50 year old looking to get faster, and recover well, this is all good info for me!

    I take quite a few items daily: multi vitamin, fish oil, glucosamine, biotin (for my sad hair and nails...vain!) cranberry extract (urinary tract health) calcium with Vit. D and occasionally a b12 tablet. If I'm being smart, I eat a smoothie with chia, flax and hemp seed in it daily, plus either spinach or kale. I eat lots of fruit and veggies too, except it seems in high volume build weeks for IM. Then I'm on the bike so much drinking perform, my whole food consumption seems to go down, and I am usually eating some carbs to prepare for the next big workout. Also, if my sleep becomes troublesome, or I am feeling tired I take CALM, which is a magnesium supplement at night to help with sleep. I am also of the *cough* age that I can have interrupted sleep at any time due to peri menopause crappola, making recovery even trickier!

    This year my weight was up and I was not as diligent with my nutrition. I am beginning (post IMMT) to craft my plan of awesome for next season, and nutrition, recovery and body composition are all a part of that. Looking forward to what others post!!!
  • At 45 and pursuing back of FOP status.  Just eating properly is complicated enough for me.  I do use 10g BCAA powder mixed with a bit of juice 20-30 minutes before early morning workouts (is that a supplement?), and usually a protein shake (grapefruit juice, whey protein, and casein protein) before bed (also a 1/2- 1 beer with supper most nights).  I use saltstick tabs during races and long training sessions or after a particularly sweaty shorter session.  I'm on again and off again with vitamin D due to my darkish skin and where I live. That's it. Recovery seems to be ok.  

  • Supplements in my mind are more of a conveinience thing. Easier to take a protein shake sometimes versus making an egg white omelet. I do take a protein shake a few times a week.



    I'm cautious of taking too much of anything in the mostly unregulated world of "GNC" stores.



    Be careful with any pre workout. Mostly marketed to body builders. Go get a blood test to make sure everything is ok. Lots of army bases have pulled pre workout supplements from the shelf because of all the issues people were having. Specifically liver issues. A power lifter friend of mine got called back from his doctor recently for numerous extra tests. Turns out it was the pre workout he was taking was messing up his liver bad.
  • As you all know, I'm in the camp that takes a LOT of supplements.  I also have a lot of dietary quirks, but I'll keep this post to the "supplement" side.  I don't know if any of these actually work, but it works for me, so I'm keeping with it.  Also with supplements, DO NOT buy cheap stuff.  If you're gonna buy cheap stuff, probably better off not taking anything at all. Here's the stuff I take and when (I've found timing is actually important for me for some of the stuff):


    After my morning workout:   

    3,000 mg Coconut oil pill: http://www.amazon.com/Nutri-Essentials-Organic-Coconut-Softgels/dp/B00B7LU8GM

    5,00 IU D3:  http://www.amazon.com/Solgar-Vitamin-Cholecalciferol-Vegetable-Capsules/dp/B0037U85OS/ref=sr_1_1?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1409850017&sr=1-1&keywords=solgar+d3+5000

    Omega 3 [I only use High Quality Omega 3's]:  http://www.livingfuel.com/product/livingfuel-superessentials-omega/

    1,000 mg L-Glutamine: http://www.amazon.com/Solgar-L-Glutamine-Tablets-1000-Count/dp/B003HL541O/ref=sr_1_2?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1409865164&sr=1-2&keywords=solgar+l-glutamine

    4 Optygen HP: http://www.amazon.com/New-Improved-Optygen-HP-Bottle/dp/B000WU65TI/ref=sr_1_1?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1409865248&sr=1-1&keywords=optygen+hp

    1 or 2 Adrenal Support [depending on how much training I'm doing]:  http://www.amazon.com/Vital-Nutrients-Adrenal-Support/dp/B00EQC3KGO/ref=sr_1_2?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1409865303&sr=1-2&keywords=vital+nutrients+adrenal+support

    1 Magnesium Malate Chelate:  http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004USSV36/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    MCT Oil [I drizzle some on my omelet]: https://www.upgradedself.com/products/bulletproof-upgraded-MCT-oil-32-Fl-Oz

    Collagen Protein Powder (I often sprinkle it on my omelet or put it in my recovery shake):  https://www.upgradedself.com/products/bulletproof-upgraded-collagen-protein

    for my drink, I mix a Life Shotz with ice water:  http://lifeshotz.com/Product/default.aspx

     

    With my lunch, I have the following:

    Coconut oil pill, L-Glutamine, Omega 3, Magnesium, Adrenal Support (all these the same as with breakfast)

    400mg curcumin:  http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00J8RT8Q8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    Resveritrol:  http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003Q8SAZU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    100mg CoQ10:  http://www.costco.com/Qunol™-Mega-CoQ10-100-mg-Ubiquinol,-120-Softgels.product.11630572.html

    600 mg Bitter Mellon:  http://www.amazon.com/Bitter-Melon-Extract-600mg-Capsules/dp/B000RE4CSK

    500 mg Niacin: http://www.amazon.com/Spring-Valley-Niacin-Capsules-Bottles/dp/B0026W3FDY

    Baby Aspirin

    To drink, I have a packet if Emergen-C mixed with ice water.

     

    Late morning or early afternoon, I take 1 packet of Adaptogenic Herbs mixed with a glass of ice water:  http://tianchi.herbworks.com/a-powerful-energy-tonic

     

    Before bed I take:

    Coconut Oil pill, Omega 3, Magnesium, L-GGlutamine.

    Occasionally, I will also take a dose of Glutathione before bed, particularly if I feel I need help flushing toxins:  https://www.bulletproofexec.com/bulletproof-upgraded-glutathione/

     

    Other things I take/use occasionally are:  

    Capraflex Bone and Joint Formula (I cannot take this with food or with other supplements):  http://www.swansonvitamins.com/mt-capra-capraflex-270-cplts

    Aller-C:  http://www.amazon.com/Vital-Nutrients-Quercetin-Bioflavonoids-Capsules/dp/B002ATLC6U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1409933014&sr=8-1&keywords=aller-c

    Essential Greens (drank as a hot tea): http://www.naturalhealthyconcepts.com/essentia-greens-DFH285gr-p-designs-for-health.html?gclid=CMGnzpG6ysACFehj7AodggcA1Q

    Magnesium Lotion (I rub this on my quads after big workouts.  I also rubbed it on my quads in T2 at IMMT):  http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00K5R9Z68/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    Amino Acids (I take these before and during long rides and races): http://www.amazon.com/Master-Pattern-1000mg-Tablets-Building/dp/B007W2RVHY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1409933504&sr=8-2&keywords=map+amino+acid

     

    Recovery Shakes:

    If I don't make a natural recovery shake, my favorite "mix" is Orange flavored Ultragen:  http://www.amazon.com/First-Endurance-Ultragen-Recovery-Dreamsicle/dp/B001IOU9OO/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1409932186&sr=8-3&keywords=ultragen

    My 2nd favorite is the Strawberry Hammer Recoverite:  http://www.amazon.com/Hammer-Recoverite-Strawberry-32-Servings/dp/B001CTF350/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1409932298&sr=8-1&keywords=recoverite

     

    The bars I eat during my long rides/races are:

    1) Accer Recover bars: http://www.tigerfitness.com/Pacifichealth-Laboratories-Accel-Recover-Bar-p/7910030m.htm?utm_source=google&utm_medium=paid_search&utm_campaign=paid_search_google_pla&scid=scplp6519256&gclid=CPa61MS3ysACFcZQ7AodUFQAWw

    2) Bluebery Larabars:  http://www.vitacost.com/larabar-blueberry-muffin-16-bars-1

    3) Banana Nut Quest bars (Jess also likes the other flavors): http://www.vitacost.com/quest-nutrition-questbar-protein-bar-banana-nut-muffin

    I also use Infinit for my base bike liquid nutrition.

    That's all I can think of for now, I'll update if I can remember anything else later.

     

  • I'll add a quick addendum to JW's post regarding the Quest Bars in the event that someone has an interest in them... MANY of the flavors contain artificial sweeteners, which neither of us use. They DO contain sugar alcohols, which can cause gastric upset in some people (and to be honest, I'm not a huge fan from the standpoint that I don't consider sugar alcohols "natural," but I can't help it... I like the convenience of a bar sometimes!).

    @Trish - JW and I both worked with a great holistic doc who gave us a lot of direction with most of the supplements we take (this is also why we take "practitioner grade" supps from companies like Thorne and Designs for Health). She recommended two supplements that I take to help regulate female hormones - Calcium D-Glucarate and DIM (Diindolymethane - say that three times fast!). I won't go into exhausting detail, but both help the body process/metabolize estrogen in different ways (and BONUS - can help keep those lbs. off the places where women typically hold lbs!).

    I've taken a variety of supplements over the years but these are supplements I tend to stick with:

    -- Multivitamin from Thorne Research
    -- Omega-3's WITH food (my sports med doc had me triple my dose for several weeks after my bike crash/concussion, and I credit my rapid healing to that!)
    -- 5000 mg's of L-Glutamine daily (I believe this is HUGE for recovery and staying healthy - L-glutamine is often given to chemo patients who have decreased immune function... it also regulates blood sugar and can even help with carb cravings in some people... sadly, I'm not one of them. :-(
    -- DIM Avail from Designs for Health (to metabolize estrogen)
    -- Calcium D-Glucarate from Thorne Research (also to metabolize estrogen)
    -- Vitamin A & D combo (25,000 IU A, 1,000 IU D) 3x a week, more Vitamin D in the winter months (usually 1,000 IU/day)
    -- Master Amino Patter amino acids (5 tablets) on the days I weight train, prior to training
    -- Magnesium (as Magnesium Citrate... it helps keep me, um... "regular") 800mg before bed, usually every other day
    -- Conjugated Linoleic Acid (CLA). I take this mostly for clear skin, but when taken consistently (as in, 6+ months), it's been said to help burn abdominal fat. No clue if that's true or not!

    When it comes down to it, I have NO idea if any of this stuff actually DOES anything for me. I've cycled on and off of things a few times to see if it's had an effect or not, and there are a lot of things that I've taken (beta-alanine, L-carnitine, BCAA's, Alpha Lipoic Acid... ) and stopped taking without any obvious change for better or worse.

    If I were to get rid of everything and keep just one or two supplements, I'd definitely be keeping the Omega-3 and the L-glutamine. Brain and gut health. Those two are sort of important... ;-)
  • @ Steve Beyer Is there someone you know or have used to do blood analysis? I think I may use Dr Garrett Rock from Colorado. Any thoughts?
  • @Robert...sorry for the slow response, been preoccupied with IMFL. I don't know anyone local near you, but obviously that's not a prerequisite given that you're looking at Dr. Rock. Having said that, FWIW Dr. Rock's credentials show him to be a great choice for anyone, but particularly an endurance athlete, who is looking to get a functional analysis of their blood chemistry, which again will differ in significant ways from a more traditional analysis.

    If you decide to go for it I'd be really interested to get some feedback afterwards if you don't mind. Good luck!
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