Central Governor Theory - Power of the mind? Trick the mind?
Starting at 14:26 of the podcast - all of its all pretty good though..from Julie Moss to RAAM
http://www.wnyc.org/shows/radiolab/...nts/148237
Recently saw this on my twitter feed....
http://sweatscience.com/?p=715
Makes me wonder, Can you train to ignore the thoughts from your brain that says this is hard? In this case, a power tap might be working against you. You've tested your FTP at 250 and you're retesting, you're seeing 265 and then 270 ---- this according to the Central Governor theory will send signals from the Brain to the legs and say 'ease up comboy' this is gonna hurt.....Are their mental tricks to overcome this? They tested athletes where by just by swishing around some energy drink and spitting it out while testing would produce better results...why? The taste of sugar tricked the mind into thinking energy was on the way?
Thought this topic was interesting and might start a cool discussion.....
More on Central Gov Theory
The Central Governor theory
The essence of The Central Governor Theory is that your brain paces your muscles to keep them back from the brink of exhaustion. When the brain decides it's time to quit, it creates the distressing sensations you interpret as muscle fatigue.
http://www.thefactsaboutfitness.com/news/cent-gov.htm
Comments
There are times when I have accidentally set the treadmill too fast (ignoring my watch that has the actual pace on it because I know the treadmill setting) and have done intervals and gotten home beforeI realized what I had done. There are times when I have made mistakes on the bike or swimming in a similar fashion that yeilded similar results...speed without the associated pain.
So, I certainly agree that the more you can distance your mind and your muscles, the more you can expand your ability to do work. The flip side is that there is a limit to what you can do and fully recover, so, your brain is likely helping in that realm as well. Each workout isn't just about that workout, it is also tied to the workouts coming over the next few days. Without another true metric (other than your mind and your perception of what is 'hard'), you would likely run the risk of overdoing it too often.
This speaks to those mornings where z3 feels like z5 though...for sure! This would be an AWESOME topic to read a lot about!
This topic is of great interest to me. I know very well that the conscious mind is often one's biggest enemy when trying to achieve a breakthrough race performance. I seem to do my best when my mind is more of an observer than a controller. Highly successful athletes talk about being "in the zone", or "in the flow", or being "centered". I think they are talking about letting their body do the work. Your question, "Can you train to ignore the thoughts from your brain that says this is hard?" cuts to the heart of how one achieves this state.
I've certainly experienced the sensation of knowing that what I'm doing is hard, but letting it happen anyway. There may be two things I've done which make that state easier to achieve in a race. First, successfully completing the hardest workouts, week in and week out, seems to train the letting go process. For me, those workouts seem to be the run intervals and the bricks. And second, I seem to do better when I "let go" of the race, meaning I have given up thoughts of success (time, place), and just immerse myself in the process.
My best race performances have all come when I see my competition literally pulling away from me, or know they are so far in front I don't have a chance to win. My response is NOT to get angry, or TRY harder. What I do at that point, it seems, is just let my body do what is has been trained to do; and let my mind do what IT has been trained to do, which is to pay attention to the details of race execution: what and when to eat and drink, observing power or pace, and staying within my known limits. It may be that focusing on that minutiae, keeping the mind in observer mode rather than controller mode, is the mental trick I use to ignore the damage happening in my muscles, bones and joints.
Because I found this so fascinating when I read about it last year, I went to look up the original study. Here's the abstract (costs $ to see the whole thing.) This may actually be a "secret" which allows better performance at the end of an IM or HIM. I suck on a Clif Shot Blok; my dentist disapproves, but he's not the one racing ...
Anyway...I agree that this is a good thread. Anyone else with experience to share?
My observation is you can learn to achieve the same effect as meditation while also doing your workouts. You don't need to separately teach yourself meditation techniques anymore than you need to separately use weight training exercises. The thing to practice is to pay attention to the PROCESS of what you are doing while you are doing it, not the end result/outcome. Sometimes, though, the work IS so hard, that it seems you can't really pay attention to anything, anymore. You "lose focus". That's when it's time to get simpler. A first step might be to pay attention to the physical motions involved - pedaling circles, not squares; longitudinal body rotation while swimming; timing of breaths to strides while running. If even that fails, then get simpler still: count strokes or strides. Get to 300, 0r 100, or 10, and start again.
About six years ago, on an exceptionally hot day at the Xterra World Championships, the women's winner, Melanie McQuaid, allowed as how she didn't really remember most of the run, except for the fact that she counted each stride, got to ten, and started over again. That was all she was able to focus on, just counting to ten over and over, for 11K! To this day, she still can't really remember the run portion of that race.
Some people use a catch phrase they repeat over and over, like a meditation mantra, when their mind starts to wander away from the task at hand.
So that's my observation: when losing focus in a workout, get simpler in what you're paying attention to. Dissociate your "self" from the task at hand by giving your mind a simple, repetitive task to keep it busy, and thus out of the way. Do that over and over, week in and week out, and eventually your mind will learn to pay attention to things other than the pain, or the boredom, or whatever it is that seems you mind is calling the desire to quit.
Once you've able to routinely achieve that state, the next step is to learn how to give your mind something useful to do, rather than busy itself with trying to find reasons to quit. Time to start observing pace, or power, or HR, or RPE, but without any purpose other than to observe. Drop all expectations of needing to hit certain numbers, just see what they are. Your body and unconscious brain will use that information they're being fed, and the knowledge of how hard you intend to work in that session or race, to do the best they can. And, more often than not, you'll be surprised by the results.
This is a fascinating thread. I love the mental part of triathlon. Central governor must be the part where I feel mentally "on" with head in control and muscles like their own animals. I like the part when I start feeling twitchy pain and hear myself telling the muscle, "got it. thanks" and the pain stops.
I've also noticed when running intervals and using the Garmin I do way better programming runs in and running "to the beep" instead of constantly checking the distance. I think bodies are bad timekeepers -- and we must be able to use that to our advantage.
I have a lot to add but no time to write at the moment. I'll get back. But one quick thing on this is the fact that I really feel that EN and the training and techniques disclosed inside here really help a person to get better with dealing with pain or forgetting about it and allowing the body to get through it, hence go faster.
I initially read about the Central Governor theory on the Science In Sport Blog's series on Fatigue (direct link). In this case it wasn't about additional performance, but rather how the Central Governor acts to restrain our effort a bit, which would explain why everyone, regardless of pacing, seems able to run all out at the end of a race. The basic idea is that your brain exerts control over your muscles, even to the point where if you try and go 100% all out running for 5 seconds, you still aren't using 100% of your muscle. Check the diagram from the post linked above:
I think that there's really two things going on.
I strongly believe that most of us, even at the pointy end, battle #2 way more often than #1 when we slow down. It's hard to fight off demons when the body starts to say "I don't know if I can do this anymore". That is probably one of the biggest advantages to riding / running with faster people, as it gives you more opportunities to find those breakthroughs.
So, if you believe that, then, yes, mental training can help. Often times it can make a huge difference.
As for pushing yourself beyond your central governor limits, well, most of the time, if you're in that place, pushing beyond causes the body to hit some hard stops (muscle cramps, vomit, blackout, or worse). Not sure if it's worth trying to get to that place...
Mike
Some rambling thoughts. Not sure about the science at all. But. Sure seems like when you push beyond a certain limit or try to the body can react like you are trying to kill it or something and then does whatever it can to get you to stop the offending activity, usually running or riding up hills etc. Not sure if it is a general fatigue or dehydration trigger but there sure is something I have run up against before. It seems like the way that the body reacts [to get you to stop trying to kill it] is by triggering GI distress. Nothing like a feeling that you are going to poop yourself/puke/wretch to get you to stop running fast. It sure seems like it is a trigger released from the brain rather than an actual state of physical distress as the feeling goes away just about instantly when I have stopped running or gotten off the bike. Luckily it has never happened to me while racing, the most notable times were near the very end of a 125 mile hilly ride and while trying to do a fast long run in the deep south right after getting off a plane from the NE.
It is my theory that this is exactly what is going on with the "my stomach shut down" "I Puked every 5 minutes on the run" "got my nutrition wrong" folks that end up walking in the dark. If you notice that lots of times after walking for a couple of hours they are able to run somewhat. Seems like too much work in too short a period of time and the brain/body whatever rebels against you and there is no way to overcome it mentally.
Yup, I think this is the biggest driver of GI issues, as well as the dreaded cramp. Not the sole explanation, but a big piece.
I'm lucky, as the only time I feel close to puking is in the pain cave. But the two races I've been at where I've had to manage cramps were both races where I went too hard on the bike. One was a sprint, the other a HIM. Not a coincidence that going too hard on the bike is the only thing in common.
Mike
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/05/sports/playmagazine/05robicpm.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all
Like Chirs G, no idea what the science is (if any) behind it, but I think I had a mental block with running until 5:30 for mile repeats and just needed some motivtion to get it done and proven to my brain that I could run faster and my body would be fine.
I know a guy that will only do FTP tests with his computer display covered so that he can't be influenced by the numbers. Sure he blows up sometimes, but other times he has some pretty big break throughts.
I'd like to bring this discussion backwards a few steps and just say I think it can be dangerous to think that you have some special mojo, some special headspace strenght that gives you superpowers. Yes, I'm exagerating here, but in the Ironman game, the one which we are most likely discussing:
The simple fact is that the longer the race or event, guts just isn't enough. You need to know what you're doing. I came from a world where the standard was to suffer, endure, and generally put your head through a wall on command. The exception, the standouts, were people who could think, lead, and make decisions in those situations and potentially avoid them in the first place.
Rich, you are absolutely correct (of course - you are the guru!) about race execution. But two thoughts about the need for/existence of "some special mojo, some special headspace strength that gives you superpowers":
1. In races, the mojo that is needed is (as you have said/written forever) is patience, discipline and (I would add) humility. The people I pass every race on the run really need some special headspace strength to get them to HOLD back on the bike and/or start of the run. There are tricks one can employ to INHIBIT the urge to race; those other guys haven't learned them or don't use them. Translating "staying in the moment" (or staying in the box) into actual thoughts and headspace on race day is the work each of us must do before the race - we all (here at EN) get to the same place, but the inner dialogue we use to get there may differ.
2. Earlier in this thread, I was pointing out the need we all have sometimes to find mental tricks, devices, to get us through the hardest workouts, those FTP and above bike workouts, and shorter, faster run intervals, that you so fiendishly drop on us. THAT"S where the super special mental headspace tricks or training can come in handy. And it's surely a question of "whatever works". As you and Matt both point out, riding/running with faster people almost always works to make one go faster the he would alone - it's as if they take the mental burden from you. Alone, it's harder.
Then, once we've gotten strong from thriving on those tough workouts, we have to flip the equation to HOLD BACK in the race. The time for learning that, of course, is on the Big Days and the Race rehearsals. And for the unlucky among us, like me, in the first 5-10 long races we do.
In ironman, you are fatigue-limited. That means that you are bumping up against all sorts of central limiters. In those instances, there's vey little you can do with your brain to 'will' out a faster race.
In a workout setting, you're rarely fatigue-limited, and more often limited by your ability to push yourself (not always true, but it's not infrequent). In those cases, taking the brain out of the equation can be the best thing for you. By removing the brain's limits on what you think you can do, you have the opportunity to achieve a breakthrough.
Mike