High Suffer Score on long run...
My vDot is 35, yielding a Z2 pace of 9:46
Here is a link to my Strava from today's long run (90 min on HIM week 18): Strava Data
Things just aren't "adding up" for me. I completed the run, it was tough the last 30 minutes, and I wasn't even able to hold my Z2 pace (let alone the Z3 pace at the end) without having my heart rate way up there, which I guess leads to an "Extreme" rating for my Strava Suffer Score.
Question: What is wrong with me? Is my vDot wrong? Am I too new to running (20 months at 48 years old) to expect a lower heart rate?
As it is, I am taking extra walk breaks (currently I walk 30 seconds every half mile).
I completed a sweat test and went through the nutrition calculations to determine amount of fluids/calories/sodium and I feel I executed that well.
Comments
Have you set your Heart rate and pace zones in your "My Performance" tab?
Are you asking why Strava rated your run as an EXTREME suffer score when you didn't feel like it was extreme?
I am asking why I am struggling to hold a Z2 pace and my heart rate is so high?
Do I need to change my vDot?
Do I need to change my run strategy?
These are your "Estimated Best Efforts" per Strava
1k 5:28
1 mile 8:52
5k 31:33
10k 1:04:42
If these are accurate they put you at a 29 Vdot. If you are running paces at a 35 Vdot then you will blow up.
At any rate Z2 at the end of a long run is never easy, especially EN long runs which have interval work in the beginning. I think you should be ok.
Don,
As Steve pointed out is the 35 vdot a valid score. Beyond the run nutrition how was your eating in the day or so leading up to the run. Cumulative fatigue from the programs or the cycles can sneak up on you. Do you track you resting HR or other metrics when you wake up? I usually track my waking HR and if this is creeping up then I know to watch the intensity for sure and distance possibly.
From my own perspective when I've been in that 30-38 vdot range the Z2 stuff can get hard and sometimes fall in to the z1.5 or even z1 work at the end of runs. Perhaps this is the speed at the beginning or not having enough of an engine for the long distance, probably a combination of both. Again this is not all the time but there are workouts that I just can't muster Z2 speed.
At times it is other workouts, a bike ride for example, say pushing harder on the bike intervals or going a little longer because it's a nice day out. Basically did I do anything stupid and negative that affected downstream workouts? In lots of cases the answer was yes and now I need to micro my week, back off, or even take a day or two off.
Finally are they any outside work stresses, less sleep or changes to your daily routine?
Gordon
5k: 26:17 (sprint triathlon)
5k: 28:20 (this was 1st leg of a duathlon)
10k: 60:22 (xterra trail, stand alone 10k)
15k: 1:31:49 (15k stand alone road race)
My vDot has not changed more than 1 point since Feb.
Stress level is low
I ran early in the morning and it was not hot...probably 70ish
There's nothing wrong with you. You're in the heart of the meanest part of your training cycle - you're *supposed* to be teetering on the edge of fatigue/exhaustion thru this weekend, with recovery ("taper") soon to follow. So it's not surprising - actually, it's desirable and to be expected - that you would be seeing this sort of thing, the inability/difficulty to meet pace/effort targets at the end of your long run. It's a sign that after this weekend, you should ease up maybe even more than the plan calls for next Mon-Wed, until you start feeling cobwebs are forming, then get back on the horse.
Can't comment on the Suffer Score - that must be a Strava premium thing.
I'm not an experience runner either, but I share your feeling about these runs. I'm in prep for Austin 70.3, which is about a month after your race, so I'm not under as much fatigue load as you are currently with regard to volume. My long run tonight, 120', was mostly Z2. It was warm (upper 80's) but I live in South Texas, always run in the evenings and am "used to it". I share Peter's sentiment that Z2 is not "easy"....especially for 90' minutes. I was able to negative split and run the last 3mi in Z3, but it was painful for sure and I was not happy or seeing fairies/gumdrops/etc.
My vDot plummeted to 41 (from 44) after IMTX and hasn't improved all summer (I think due to the heat and how my first IM just completely kicked my butt from a recovery standpoint....or I took too much time off?....or all of this?).
I think you are OK too. I don't know what to make of the Strava suffer score....mine was "Epic" tonight. Seems a little overstated to say it was "epic". It was hard, but not "epic"! Heat will definitely increase your HR quite a bit, as your heart is trying to cool you by shunting blood to skin....thus overall cardiac output has to increase to maintain leg/core blood flow so you can run.
If you are using the calculator or attack point and have validated your vDot with a recent 5k from a sprint tri or duathlon, those should be completely valid (I didn't plug them in, but trust you did).
In my build to IMTX, which was my first, I was shocked at how hard Z1/Z2 became in the final few weeks. The cumulative fatigue is a real deal. Your bike workout the day before or shorter run the day before and the day before that all add fatigue. I was seriously concerned that something was wrong with me too, as previously easy paces were becoming stupid hard. But, on race day, I was able to execute well, felt rested and the paces "fit" with RPE. The taper will do you more good than is obvious, although even during the taper I felt fatigued and the paces still felt too hard. I was freaking out....lots of veterans kept me in check and reassured me....they were right.
The plans the coaches have created seem to work beautifully, as confirmed by so many others' PRs, solid performances and club wins. If you have your nutrition/hydration dialed in, are practicing it in your daily workouts (especially long rides/runs and RR days), you will be just fine. Seems to me that most people who have a bad day, have nutrition/hydration problems rather than "my run pace was just impossible the whole time".
My $0.02, inexperienced, but it has worked for me for sure!
Many things will impact heart rate--dehydration, wind direction, terrain, etc. For example-- if my z2 hr was 135-143 @ 9:15/mi pace then if I were running on flat ground with no headwind, then my heart rate would be close to the 135-143 range. However, if I were to run this same pace into a 15 mph headwind or up a 1 mile 6% hill, then I'd expect my heart rate to be more in the 155 range.
I think your learning to run and developing run fitness may also be impacting you. Your feeling of difficulty could be associated with just not being an efficient runner at this point in your career. This is something that will improve over time---keep at it, but also look at other factors people have noted such as cumulative fatigue and where you are in your build cycle.
Good luck
I think Al and Jeff beat me to it. I am not an example runner but, I too struggle with the long run based on the load I carry from the prior weekend and prior 3 days coming into that session. There is a purpose for the way the plan is set up and that big picture can be lost when struggling to hit targets as such. Other factors can also help/hurt you such as weather conditions when you set your target/test and those when you actually perform the long run as well as terrain changes.
Listen to the veterans, stay the course, be consistent, and you will see the benefits show up race week and race day as your body has time to taper, recover and absorb all the competitor elimination work you have been putting in.
Great work so far!
SS
(that link isn't working for me right now so I'm shooting from the hip)
1. Your training load is heavy, prob heavier than ever before in regards to this type of 'exercise'.
2. Your area is much like mine....lots of short hills, one after another. Nothing impressive on a chart, but it def affects HR/RPE/Pace on these runs. No way around that.
3. Heat. 70 degrees, eh? I've been running in the morning, too, and my 70's feel like 80's...see #4.
4. Humidity. Thick n heavy. I saw Rich's post from the Chatt camp regarding these conditions. Even he said the heat & humidity are brutal around here.5. A little pickier but important nonetheless, if you're throwing down steaks & burgers for dinner the night before, you gonna feel sluggish the next morning. Fact.
1+2+3+4+5(if applicable)= Concrete legs, increased RPE, increased HR, at a frustratingly slower pace.
Feel your pain, neighbor!
I ran last night.
6pm.
Goal was just an ez 5miler on the local greenway that has rolling hills of varied grades and distances. HR guided run, stay zone 2.
After the first mile, I was solid zone 3, drifted up into zone 4 on every ascent no matter how ez I jogged up, just shy of an IM death march pace.
Took everything I had, short of walking, to keep my HR in the low to mid zone 3, pace was LRP +1to2 minutes.
You know the deal, completely drenched from scalp to bottom of shoes within 10minutes.
Hang in there.
Do the work.
These number don't magically change. Just keep showing up and doing the work.
You'll get the breakthroughs you're looking for when the conditions are right...rested, cooler, etc.