Online bike fit vs. in person

tgarson

Hi All,

It's somewhat of my dirty little secret that I've been riding my TT bike now for going on two years with nothing other than my own patented fit system, i.e. randomly making adjustments when I 'feel' it necessary, evaluating them from a comfort perspective while riding, then tweaking some more.

However, it's reached the point where I'd like to get a proper fit, but I suspect like most of you there is not a whole lot in the way of fitters in my area. I could make the long haul up to Minneapolis and go to GearWest, but that is a bit too much for me just for a bike fit, or I could hit up a fitter in Madison one of the times I drive up to preview the IMWI course this summer. Of course theres always TTBikeFit.com which I know many of you have had a lot of success with.

I suppose my hesitation is that it is a lot of money either way you look at it and there are certain areas that I have simply never explored, such as cleat fitting, that you don't get in an online fit. Has anyone had both an online and an in person fit and can comment on the comparative quality? Is there any sort of EN discount for TTBikeFit.com? 

Thanks!

Brad Loescher

Trevor, for what it's worth, here is my personal experience.

About 5 years ago, relatively new to the sport I bought my first (and only, so far) tri bike from a local shop with a great reputation for service and fitting. Every year, I would get my fit reviewed and tweaked as needed. No real problems and the fit was relatively comfortable.

After reading many posts on fit from Rich and others, listening to the podcasts, etc.., about a month ago I decided to contact Todd at TTBikeFit. Todd does still offer a $25 discount for EN members. Todd's analysis of my fit was that it was too relaxed. Todd offered many suggestions and we are still going back and forth on some minor adjustments. From the video analysis, Todd did notice some knee flaring and we evaluated me pedals and cleats.

Too soon for a verdict as to whether or not the new position will have a positive impact on my performance, but Todd has been great to work with.

Hope that helps.

carpej30

I can't comment on an online fit.. what I can comment is on an in person fit. I went to a bike shop that did a retul fit. They hooked up electric sensors to my body and was able to record data to the computer. It measured even the slightest knee flare. In general it was a good fit for me and took a good hour and a half. I don't know about online fit, but it was nice to knock it out in a shorter period of time (i'm assuming with an online fit it takes a few back and forths with them) and if something doesnt feel right I can go and complain to someone. Also when I got new aerobars they refit me based off my old fit and new bars for free... I would not knock the online fit, but I can't imagine how it can be as effective as having a specialist actually see, touch and hook you up to a computer all for instant feedback.

mancona

Trevor, I think it is 6 one way half a dozen the other. The one thing I would say is do it sooner rather than later. I see no reason to wait as the sooner you are in the new position the longer your body has to adapt and fine tune it to be prefect by race season.

As long as you go with a good fitter that knows what they are doing and knows how to make you aero you will be fine.

Many folks from EN have worked with TT Bike Fit and Todd does an outstanding job, far better then your standard bike shop.

Gear West is a pretty big name and well respected so I would assume they would do a good job as well, but I have no experience with them myself.

Check out the EN Bike Fit ebook first. Todd helped RnP out with it so you will get a really good idea of what you will get from him. The TTbikefit website also has tons of great videos.

tgarson

Thanks for the tips so far. If I am going to do the fit, I'm realizing that I need to get it done sooner rather than later as you mentioned Matt, unfortunately I'm in Iowa, where we seem to be completely devoid of certified fitters. If I head about 3-4 hours in any direction I can hit some decent fitters, it's a 4 hour trek to Chicago but on the plus side I could go to Get a Grip which seems to be one of the highest rated fitters in the directories that I've seen... but 4 hours is a long way to drive each way for a bike fit.

Online may end up being the way to go for me simply due to sheer convienence.

carpej30

I can see that 4 hours is a long way, though maybe we can get a group together and make a training weekend out of it in Chicago

mancona

FWIW, Ken and Adam at GAG helped with my fit this year and I was very impressed. 4 hours is a long way for a fit though when Todd does a very good job remotely.

Nemo Brauch

I've had my fit done both ways. When I first bought my bike I didn't know how to change a tire, much less swap out a stem. So the shop fit was a good option for me. But if you comfortable with a wrench, online is a great (and convenient) way to go. I've had great results and awesome customer service working with Todd at TTBikefit. I'll probably be engaging him again soon for a little fine tuning with Fiona before I really lock into those aerobars for the summer!

Chris G

 One thing to think about is that when you do an in person fit, the fitter will look at you, take some angles, maybe look at a video screen etc and then make changes.  The way todd does it you are sure that he is measuring everything and will have all the numbers to go back and compare with after you decided to "tweak" something and likely mess up.  

David Flint

As Chris said plus IMO a good bike fitter should also have a sound grasp of biomechanics/ physiology - ideally you need a professional who can assess your flexibility and basic anatomy first of all.
Although time will tell (cos I haven't ridden my Tri bike yet) - the bike fit I had was conducted by a qualified physio who's also a keen age-grouper himself - he also uses the Retul system - I travelled 3 hrs for this service but would have driven double that.
If you can't source something similar then I do hear the online route is very effective too - there's also a guy in Australia who does similar, Steve Hogg who writes for cyclingnews.com

gilliatt

Trevor there are some decent fitters in the Des Moines area, there are some I would stay away from as well.

Gordon Cherwoniak

I've never done a fit.  I used Todd to analyze which of the 4 local bike options would be best for me.  I did this because I have no one locally to verify the bike fit skills of the two shops.  They are reputable and I use them for purchases but just could not take the leap without comfirmation.  I am awaiting my new specialized and will used Todd for a fit in the future. 

Given the distance you have to travel TTbikefit is a great option.  If you have access to a video camera; are able to take a few measurements; and comfortable making a few changes to your bike then there is really no problem. 

Gordon

William Jenks

Trevor-

I live in Ames, IA, about 30 miles north of Des Moines. Dan mentioned Des Moines. I bought my bike at a LBS, and they have been very good about working with fitting me more or less as much as I want, and I've been very happy. That said, there's a guy associated with the shop that does the FIST fitting (which I have not done) on an appointment basis. Let me know if your'e interested and I can put you in touch.

William Jenks

Trevor-

I live in Ames, IA, about 30 miles north of Des Moines. Dan mentioned Des Moines. I bought my bike at a LBS, and they have been very good about working with fitting me more or less as much as I want, and I've been very happy. That said, there's a guy associated with the shop that does the FIST fitting (which I have not done) on an appointment basis. Let me know if you're interested and I can put you in touch.

William

daisymack

I did an online fit with Todd this spring. I live alone in a small place, so videotaping myself involves moving literally every piece of furniture in my downstairs and spending a bit of time editing the video bits into one piece. However, that PITA is outweighed by the convenience of being able to return to him again and again and again after each tweak, all included in the $200 price, without the hassle of having to make an appointment somewhere and schlep my bike to the shop.

Michele Cellai

I think the key is having someone that will listen. I was fitted on the Retul system. It was great- at first. But every time I explained that while the position might be ideal, there was no way I could hold it for the entire race due to neck pain and the saddle was miserable, they looked at me like I was crazy "this is the perfect geometric set up for you". I finally went to another LBS. Many saddles later and a spacer in the stem, I can now ride with much more comfort. These other guys didn't have Retul, but they are very experienced AND THEY LISTENED to my feedback. Guess where I go now? (Of course I am lucky to live in an area with many great LBSs.)

I have not used Todd, but based on the feedback I have read over my years at EN, I am very certain that Todd listens.

pgiesin

I used Todd to help fit my first road bike. Overall, I was fairly satisfied. He spent as much time as was needed in order to help me feel comfortable. However, it took quite some time to complete the process since there was typically a 1-2 day delay between when either of us responded to the last email. On my newest road bike purchase I have used the LBS fitting, so far. They seemed to know what they were doing and took there time to answer my questions and concerns.

After talking to my LBS and comparing the fit of the two bikes I have noticed a rather major difference. The one fit by Todd has a rather big drop (1-2cm) between the seat and the bars. The new bike is basically level between the two. I asked my LBS about this and their answer was the the significant drop is "old school" and the new thought is that they should be level.

I noticed on Dan's sweet new ride that there is a significant drop. I am wondering what others thoughts on this?

Thanks,
Pete

Gordon Cherwoniak

@Peter,  I am no expert and could be corrected by anyone with some/more experience in fitting.  My understanding is that as the bars drop your body is getting lower creating less drag.  If the seat and bars are level that makes your head and shoulders more upright creating the increased drag. 

I think of the difference between sitting up, being in the drops and then going to the aerobars.  It you think of tryng to get your hips and shoulders in a straight line along with you head you can't do this with the seat and bar being level.  The bars must be lower.

The one caveat that I am aware of is at some point aero becomes a hinderance as you lose power.  So a 15 cm drop from seat to bar may not be optimal if your power is decreased 50 watts. 

The only other non scientific example I have is looking at the tour de france riders and what they do while descending.  They hug the bar and have there head very low. 

Gordon

carpej30

I think your accurate on the lower bars create lower drag, but I think it comes at the expense of comfort and power. So it depends on your race. If your going to be in the position for 6 hours during an IM, then perhaps sacrificing a little aero for comfort/power makes sense. Thats one of the reasons I like in person fits by certified, intelligent people. THey can explain what your doing, you can tell them your goals and its all recorded with someone to take your bike in to. I am sure that Todd does a good job but how can it beat someone who is just as good physically looking at you and your bike, touching, lisitening and verifying everything?

Chris G

Posted By Jason Carpenter on 18 Apr 2010 07:56 AM

I think your accurate on the lower bars create lower drag, but I think it comes at the expense of comfort and power. So it depends on your race. If your going to be in the position for 6 hours during an IM, then perhaps sacrificing a little aero for comfort/power makes sense. Thats one of the reasons I like in person fits by certified, intelligent people. THey can explain what your doing, you can tell them your goals and its all recorded with someone to take your bike in to. I am sure that Todd does a good job but how can it beat someone who is just as good physically looking at you and your bike, touching, lisitening and verifying everything?

Would it be better to get fit in person ideally?, sure.  Trouble is that many fit "experts" do not have a clue what they are doing.  If you have access to someone local, great.  Chances are you do not.  Comfort v. Aero. v. Power thing does not really mean that much.  If it is done right you should be comfortable in your bars all day with very little loss of power of a 'hammering in the hoods" position on the roadie.  There are a TON of really crappy bike fits out there, go to any race and take a look.  $5k bikes with a $.02 fit are everywhere and almost all of them were "professionally" done.

Coach Rich

Werd, what Chris said. Lots of clowns out there, all over, charging money for very poor fits. With Todd you know what you're going to get and he can service your fit needs from anywhere. In my opinion, a better risk than driving 4hrs each way to maybe get a good fit. And if you need it tweaked? Another 8hr day.

Coach Rich

And another thing...I would ask a fitter if they have raced Ironman. I was in the first FIST class back in the day and can fit people, but my most valuable classroom has just been time in the bars and not afraid to take some tools with me and make small changes under a tree during a ride. No fit school can teach you the level of detail you'll learn from paying attention to stuff during your 8-10hrs/wk in the saddle, in the bars.

carpej30

true, like anything it must be thoroughly researched. Anything that involves something less tangible whether a bike fit, or coaching, should be thoroughly researched. Don't assume any bike shop that claims it does a fit does.. With that said, all things being equal, money skill etc.. I would chose in person.

Tom Glynn

I've done both.

Several years ago I went with a very reputable local fitter and he did a great job with my road bike and I was a satisfied customer. He made a bunch of adjustments and I left the shop in about 2 hours. I didn't have a tri bike at the time.

This winter I went with Todd at TTbikefit.com for both bikes and learned a ton. To me a picture is worth a thousand words. He compared my fit side by side to a couple of pros. Before and after photos too. Always thought I was pretty aero, but when you saw the pictures and he tells you what he recommends, the light bulbs just went off for me. I feel much more comfortable tweaking my bike with the allen wrench after too.

I also look at pics in the tri magazines, and sometimes it's pretty amazing at how bad some of the fits are. I never would have noticed 6 months ago.