That's pretty uncommon to not have a carbohydrate drink on course in a marathon. That said, I do not drink sports drink in running races or triathlon runs, and rather opt for gels. I typically go for Gu Roctane (cherry lime), Gu Chocolate Outrage and, more recently, the Gu Carmel Macchiato which has 40mg caffeine.
Hey Peter, just saw this. CIM is a terrific race, got my first BQ there way back in 08.
One thing to remember about the course is rolling in the first several miles, gentle rollers, but something to keep in mind. If I recall right the website has the five mile breakdown with more detail. Be smart on the downhills, Don't go out too fast, your quads can take a beating. CIM has some good pacers, but for the first few miles run your own race, if then it turns out the pacer is running the pace you want and not too fast then stay with them.
I will most likely be there to cheer my husband on, he is also trying for his BQ. He needs under 3:25.
Friday the 5th: Drive up to the big Sac ( 350 mile drive ). Stop several times to stretch out legs and move around.
Saturday the 6th: Do the shakeout run in the AM.
Check in at race as early as possible. Sacramento Convention Center Halls (C, D, E) 1400 J Street Sacramento, CA 95814 Open 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM
Big breakfast, drink water and perform all day, extra salt at breakfast Medium lunch (low fiber) - Hopefully some sort of Mediterranean pita sandwich Light dinner of just chicken and pasta. Watch movies and lay on couch.
Set out race gear night before:
Altra The One2 Shoes Socks Shorts - My sexy 2" splits Singlet HRM Garmin Watch Running Buddy for gels 5 double latte gels safety pins for bib race bib Gloves, Arm Warmers, Hat Sweat Shirt Warm up pants
Things to do: Mix up perform in 2 throw away bottles Charge garmin
Setup garmin showing:
Screen 1: Distance Lap Pace Heart Rate Current Pace
Screen 2: Elapsed Time Lap Pace Heart Rate Current Pace
Set to Auto-lap every mile
Race day:
3:15 AM: Wake up Eat 2 cups of oatmeal with 1 tbsp peanut butter, 1 tbsp honey, banana, coffee, and perform Use bathroom Get dressed Grab pre-mixed perform in throwaway bottle to sip on
3:45 AM Leave to go to pick up spot A J Street, between 13th St. and 14th St., south side, next to the Convention Center
5:00 AM Bus leaves at this time, should have arrived with plenty of time.
5:45 - 6:00 AM Bus arrives at start Finish drinking perform by 6:00 AM Stay in bus until 6:30
6:30 AM Go pee one last time Take gel Drop off morning clothes bag 15 minute jog with 4 30s pickups at race pace
6:50 AM Line up near front of race. (Based on last years result I should be around #200 to finish). Dance around on toes. It will be freezing.
7:00 AM Go!
Pacing Plan:
Goal is to go sub 3:00 hours which is a 6:52 pace. With GPS errors and not running the perfect line I will target 6:40 on my Garmin to be my settled race pace.
Miles 1-5: Mostly downhill with some rollers. Do not got out too quick, but at the same time do not give up too much time by not taking advantage of the early downhills. Shoot for 6:45 - 6:50. Make sure I stay in front of the 3:00 Crowd, so if they go out hot I guess I will too! Miles 6-10: This section is mostly flat with small rollers. Settle into race pace in this section. Target 6:40 Miles 11-15: These miles contain the "San Juan Hills". 100 ft elevation gain at mile 11. Do not make anything happen here. Watch heart rate and take it easy up the hill. The rest of this section is pretty flat so otherwise keep up with the 6:40 Miles 16-20: Small rollers with a decent net loss of elevation. Keep up at least the 6:40 taking advantage of the downhills. If feeling good these miles would be an opportunity to push the pace, perhaps even 6:30. I am a pretty good downhill runner. Miles 21-Finish: Very flat at this point. Try to just hang on and not slow down.
Goal is to be at around 1:28 at the half way point.
Nutrition:
1 double latte gel 30 minues before start 4x double latte gels at miles 5, 10 15, and 20. I will use the Race Buddy to hold them. Nuun at the aid stations except when taking a gel, which will be taken with water.
- Maybe before bed a powerbar or Clif Bar or something like that to top up your glycogen stores
- You really want to wake up at 3:15am for a race that starts at 7am? You want to be at the bus stop an hour before the bus leaves? Esp if it's freezing as you suggest?
- 2 cups of oatmeal sounds like a big slug to put in your stomach before a running race. If that is your usual routine then you can handle it. Personally on race morning (for a running race) I stick to gels and shot bloks. But then again, you'll be awake for 3+ hours before the race.
- 15 min is a lot of warmup for a marathon. You want to deplete as little glycogen as possible while getting the blood flowing to your legs. Maybe as little as 5-7 minutes with a couple of pickups.
- 1:28 for the half split sounds about right for a high 2:50's finish time. In Chicago 2013 I was 1:28:36 at the half for a 2:57:47 finish time
- If you are seeing 6:40 on your watch all day you will be well ahead of schedule...around 6:48 is the right target if you just want buffer to insure against running a suboptimal course. At 6:40 you're banking time and/or on track for a much better race than you expected.
- Unfortunately I am staying an hour from the bus stop, and the bus leaves at 5:00 AM. So by leaving at 3:45 I will get to the bus with 15 mintues to spare at 4:45 It is what it is. At least I can sit on the bus as long as I want.
- The Oatmeal is my normal thing and I have run within 30 minutes of eating it. I have experimented with applesauce, bagels, oatmeal and it makes no difference. I was thinking oatmeal just to have something warm!
- I will cut down the warmup like you suggest, I was just going off the EN marathon guidelines. I was actually wondering if I should warm up at all.
- I guess I am torn on target pace. I have been training as if I can ran at a 6:37 pace. On one hand I want to be conservative and make sure I qualify, but on the other hand I am curious to see how close I can get to my true marathon potential. I don't want to waste all this hard work! Maybe I should split the difference and target 6:45
Re: pacing...start easy for 1 or 2 miles then settle into your groove. On any given day that might be 6:40 or it might be 6:45. If you are unlucky it will be 6:50. If you are lucky maybe high 6:30s. But make sure you are "settled in" and not "working hard". It should feel really good. If you feel really good at 6:45 pace at mile 5 but 6:40 is "work" then settle into 6:45 for the day. Don't be working hard early. If your training paces and key workouts are suggesting a 6:40 target then put a 6:35 "speed limit" early if you're feeling really good, to make sure you don't cook yourself (the marathon is littered with people who run a 1:25 half and finish over 3:00). By mile 14-16 whatever pace was your "groove" may now start to feel like real work, and so hang onto it although it sure won't feel any easier. In fact anytime after the half your "groove" may start to drift slower by a few sec/mi and that's when you have to concentrate to maintain pace and start feeling the increasing difficulty and pain. That's how I'd pace it if I were you. That's how you'll maximize your result.
Good luck Peter. It has been fun following you on Strava. It has almost become a daily thing where I go on Strave and check " how fast did Peter run today' . I'm sure the BQ will be yours on race day
This isn't about a BQ and we all know it. If Peter wanted to jog it in for a BQ that would be different. This is about racing to max potential. Peter, when you're hurting at mile 22 or whatever, your "one thing" better not be "I can slow down and get my BQ". No way man. Suck it up!!!
Thanks guys! Although I don't want to take a BQ for granted, you are right, I do want to push myself! I have every intention of burying myself and leaving it all out there. I will have to think of some good "one things."
Looks good Peter. I think you are going to get your sub 3:00 and then some.
No comment on pre-race nutrition because that is such a personal thing and I assume you have experience with your choices and KNOW they work.
I agree with Matt about 15' warm-up. Seems wasteful to me too. Maybe 5-7 minutes with strides. Most of the time I don't do any and use the first mile or 2 to warm up and get the diesel engine going.
Suggest you change one of the fields on screen 2 so you can see the cumulative effect of current efforts.
Screen 1:
Distance Lap Pace
Heart Rate Current Pace
Screen 2:
Elapsed Time Lap Pace
Heart Rate Average Pace
Goal pace: my experience is the average pace on my Garmin for marathons is 4-5 seconds faster than my official final pace. Tangents and GPS error are the cause and you need to account for that if you rely on the Garmin for gauging your status in the late miles. So if you need a 6:52 to make 3:00, your Garmin will likely read 6:47-48 and you're right on the bubble.
If the 6:52 (6:47) is a stretch for you, be careful of trimming 5 more seconds, it may bite you. But, and I mean a big BUT, from the training and paces I have seen on Strava I think you are faster than 6:52 (6:47) and that going that 5 seconds faster will work for you as long as you pay close attention to RPE from mile 6 to mile 18. It should be comfortably hard til then. What you do after mile 18 or 20 depends on how well you did getting there.
The last thing I want to say and leave you with is the fact that this is going to hurt, a lot! Spend time in the days leading up to the race that you will have to suffer if you want the big carrot. Know it, embrace it. Remind yourself in the morning and during the early miles that it will come. And when it does, you'll be ready, eager almost for how bad it will feel. Then when you're done and have your prize you will realize it wasn't so bad after all.
I find average pace for the whole race a bit dangerous because it is information that you can't do anything with late in the race. Moving the overall average by 2 sec/mi after you're 10+ miles into the race could lead to a massive blow-up.
Personally my Garmin for running races is set up as follows (only 3 fields per screen since I use a 620):
For most of the race: cadence, lap pace, HR For late in the race: cadence, elapsed time, HR
Another thing I have done is use the bottom half of a "Pace Tat" plus the on-course clocks to understand how I'm tracking at some of the later miles.
Peter, one thought as you head into the hardcore part of your taper next week: the hay is in the barn. Really it is. Your primary focus now should be avoiding sickness and injury. Even this weekend's run is not critical -- although in 2013 I did a 16-miler at this point in my training, this year for various reasons I missed my long run entirely at this point 14 days from the race. In fact after the "20 miler" (mine was 20+) I did 21 days before the race, I didn't do a single run over 10 miles until the race. My last 3 week's of mileage (excluding the race itself) was 32/38/19 (I peaked at 60 with all other weeks above 50). The 32 was supposed to be close to 50 but as I said, I missed the long run and didn't try to make it up. So if you feel anything "off" or any injury, feel confident in backing down. It's all about showing up to the start line healthy now.
Thanks. I plan to run 16 miles tomorrow but I will definitely keep this in mind, I will run a route so that I am never more than 2 miles from my car. After tomorrow I have no run planned that is longer than 10 miles. Its all coming together!
Now the hay is really in the barn! I did the 16 miler and it was a huge confidence booster. I hit the 2x2 mile @ Z4 at the end and I still had gas in the thank. I just want to do this thing now!
Good luck Peter. My .02 cents is that CIM is an even effort type of course because of the rollers, don't be too tied in to the mile by mile pace. It might work better to have some goals as to where you want t be at 5 miles, 10 miles and 15 miles in terms of elapsed times.
I ran nearly even splits when I ran this race, but the mile splits were not that even. Be very careful on the early downhills. Also the course is slightly crowded in the early miles, avoid weaving. The nice thing about CIM is the last 5 miles are flat and easy to get into a zone pace wise and hang on if things have got rough.
They do let you stay on the buses if I recall right, so at least you don't have to freeze for long.
Good luck, it is a fantastic course. I will be out there, maybe miles 10 and maybe 20 depending on the ease of getting back into downtown to see the finish.
I can't believe it is a week away... I have been a bit distracted the past few days because of the Holidays. My diet has also been a bit derailed by chocolate pecan pie. I hate this taper period! My plan for this week is to refocus my diet, do the last few taper workouts, and avoid sick people. Tuesday is 4x0.5 @ Z4, Wednesday is 6 miles easy, and Thursday is some strides and thats is it!
Ha yeah sick people everywhere this time of the year. Purel lots of it!
BTW, Am meeting some other runners for dinner at Paesano's in downtown ay 5pm on Saturday. Not sure where you are staying but you are most welcome to join us. Will PM you my number.
Thanks for the invite. I am gonna be staying way out in Rocklin so it might be a bit much to drive downtown and back the night before. Pass on the good luck to all other runners!
I have now completed 34 of the 36 training runs. Tomorrow morning I do 3 or so easy miles with some strides and then Saturday is a quick shakeout run of just a couple miles. The weather is looking perfect, mid to upper 40s at start and dry with pretty calm wind conditions. I just entered my last few predicted workouts into training peaks and I should have a TSB of 8.2 on race day which I am feeling good about, didn't taper too much or too little.
Comments
For full marathons I do 5 gels and have a 6th just in case I need it for the last few miles.
Gel at miles 5, 9, 13, 17, 21, (24)
One thing to remember about the course is rolling in the first several miles, gentle rollers, but something to keep in mind. If I recall right the website has the five mile breakdown with more detail. Be smart on the downhills, Don't go out too fast, your quads can take a beating. CIM has some good pacers, but for the first few miles run your own race, if then it turns out the pacer is running the pace you want and not too fast then stay with them.
I will most likely be there to cheer my husband on, he is also trying for his BQ. He needs under 3:25.
Race Plan:
Race is December 7th at 7:00 AM
Friday the 5th:
Drive up to the big Sac ( 350 mile drive
Saturday the 6th:
Do the shakeout run in the AM.
Check in at race as early as possible.
Sacramento Convention Center Halls (C, D, E)
1400 J Street
Sacramento, CA 95814
Open 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM
Big breakfast, drink water and perform all day, extra salt at breakfast
Medium lunch (low fiber) - Hopefully some sort of Mediterranean pita sandwich
Light dinner of just chicken and pasta. Watch movies and lay on couch.
Set out race gear night before:
Altra The One2 Shoes
Socks
Shorts - My sexy 2" splits
Singlet
HRM
Garmin Watch
Running Buddy for gels
5 double latte gels
safety pins for bib
race bib
Gloves, Arm Warmers, Hat
Sweat Shirt
Warm up pants
Things to do:
Mix up perform in 2 throw away bottles
Charge garmin
Setup garmin showing:
Screen 1:
Distance Lap Pace
Heart Rate Current Pace
Screen 2:
Elapsed Time Lap Pace
Heart Rate Current Pace
Set to Auto-lap every mile
Race day:
3:15 AM:
Wake up
Eat 2 cups of oatmeal with 1 tbsp peanut butter, 1 tbsp honey, banana, coffee, and perform
Use bathroom
Get dressed
Grab pre-mixed perform in throwaway bottle to sip on
3:45 AM
Leave to go to pick up spot A
J Street, between 13th St. and 14th St., south side, next to the Convention Center
5:00 AM
Bus leaves at this time, should have arrived with plenty of time.
5:45 - 6:00 AM
Bus arrives at start
Finish drinking perform by 6:00 AM
Stay in bus until 6:30
6:30 AM
Go pee one last time
Take gel
Drop off morning clothes bag
15 minute jog with 4 30s pickups at race pace
6:50 AM
Line up near front of race. (Based on last years result I should be around #200 to finish). Dance around on toes. It will be freezing.
7:00 AM
Go!
Pacing Plan:
Goal is to go sub 3:00 hours which is a 6:52 pace. With GPS errors and not running the perfect line I will target 6:40 on my Garmin to be my settled race pace.
Miles 1-5: Mostly downhill with some rollers. Do not got out too quick, but at the same time do not give up too much time by not taking advantage of the early downhills. Shoot for 6:45 - 6:50. Make sure I stay in front of the 3:00 Crowd, so if they go out hot I guess I will too!
Miles 6-10: This section is mostly flat with small rollers. Settle into race pace in this section. Target 6:40
Miles 11-15: These miles contain the "San Juan Hills". 100 ft elevation gain at mile 11. Do not make anything happen here. Watch heart rate and take it easy up the hill. The rest of this section is pretty flat so otherwise keep up with the 6:40
Miles 16-20: Small rollers with a decent net loss of elevation. Keep up at least the 6:40 taking advantage of the downhills. If feeling good these miles would be an opportunity to push the pace, perhaps even 6:30. I am a pretty good downhill runner.
Miles 21-Finish: Very flat at this point. Try to just hang on and not slow down.
Goal is to be at around 1:28 at the half way point.
Nutrition:
1 double latte gel 30 minues before start
4x double latte gels at miles 5, 10 15, and 20. I will use the Race Buddy to hold them.
Nuun at the aid stations except when taking a gel, which will be taken with water.
- Maybe before bed a powerbar or Clif Bar or something like that to top up your glycogen stores
- You really want to wake up at 3:15am for a race that starts at 7am? You want to be at the bus stop an hour before the bus leaves? Esp if it's freezing as you suggest?
- 2 cups of oatmeal sounds like a big slug to put in your stomach before a running race. If that is your usual routine then you can handle it. Personally on race morning (for a running race) I stick to gels and shot bloks. But then again, you'll be awake for 3+ hours before the race.
- 15 min is a lot of warmup for a marathon. You want to deplete as little glycogen as possible while getting the blood flowing to your legs. Maybe as little as 5-7 minutes with a couple of pickups.
- 1:28 for the half split sounds about right for a high 2:50's finish time. In Chicago 2013 I was 1:28:36 at the half for a 2:57:47 finish time
- If you are seeing 6:40 on your watch all day you will be well ahead of schedule...around 6:48 is the right target if you just want buffer to insure against running a suboptimal course. At 6:40 you're banking time and/or on track for a much better race than you expected.
- Unfortunately I am staying an hour from the bus stop, and the bus leaves at 5:00 AM. So by leaving at 3:45 I will get to the bus with 15 mintues to spare at 4:45
- The Oatmeal is my normal thing and I have run within 30 minutes of eating it. I have experimented with applesauce, bagels, oatmeal and it makes no difference. I was thinking oatmeal just to have something warm!
- I will cut down the warmup like you suggest, I was just going off the EN marathon guidelines. I was actually wondering if I should warm up at all.
- I guess I am torn on target pace. I have been training as if I can ran at a 6:37 pace. On one hand I want to be conservative and make sure I qualify, but on the other hand I am curious to see how close I can get to my true marathon potential. I don't want to waste all this hard work! Maybe I should split the difference and target 6:45
Good luck Peter. It has been fun following you on Strava. It has almost become a daily thing where I go on Strave and check " how fast did Peter run today'
. I'm sure the BQ will be yours on race day
Looks good Peter. I think you are going to get your sub 3:00 and then some.
No comment on pre-race nutrition because that is such a personal thing and I assume you have experience with your choices and KNOW they work.
I agree with Matt about 15' warm-up. Seems wasteful to me too. Maybe 5-7 minutes with strides. Most of the time I don't do any and use the first mile or 2 to warm up and get the diesel engine going.
Suggest you change one of the fields on screen 2 so you can see the cumulative effect of current efforts.
Screen 1:
Distance Lap Pace
Heart Rate Current Pace
Screen 2:
Elapsed Time Lap Pace
Heart Rate Average Pace
Goal pace: my experience is the average pace on my Garmin for marathons is 4-5 seconds faster than my official final pace. Tangents and GPS error are the cause and you need to account for that if you rely on the Garmin for gauging your status in the late miles. So if you need a 6:52 to make 3:00, your Garmin will likely read 6:47-48 and you're right on the bubble.
If the 6:52 (6:47) is a stretch for you, be careful of trimming 5 more seconds, it may bite you. But, and I mean a big BUT, from the training and paces I have seen on Strava I think you are faster than 6:52 (6:47) and that going that 5 seconds faster will work for you as long as you pay close attention to RPE from mile 6 to mile 18. It should be comfortably hard til then. What you do after mile 18 or 20 depends on how well you did getting there.
The last thing I want to say and leave you with is the fact that this is going to hurt, a lot! Spend time in the days leading up to the race that you will have to suffer if you want the big carrot. Know it, embrace it. Remind yourself in the morning and during the early miles that it will come. And when it does, you'll be ready, eager almost for how bad it will feel. Then when you're done and have your prize you will realize it wasn't so bad after all.
Run Strong Peter, we'll be watching you!
Personally my Garmin for running races is set up as follows (only 3 fields per screen since I use a 620):
For most of the race: cadence, lap pace, HR
For late in the race: cadence, elapsed time, HR
Another thing I have done is use the bottom half of a "Pace Tat" plus the on-course clocks to understand how I'm tracking at some of the later miles.
http://www.strava.com/activities/221905573
Did you start or finish the run at 3:44 AM? Either way, awesome run
I ran nearly even splits when I ran this race, but the mile splits were not that even. Be very careful on the early downhills. Also the course is slightly crowded in the early miles, avoid weaving. The nice thing about CIM is the last 5 miles are flat and easy to get into a zone pace wise and hang on if things have got rough.
They do let you stay on the buses if I recall right, so at least you don't have to freeze for long.
Good luck, it is a fantastic course. I will be out there, maybe miles 10 and maybe 20 depending on the ease of getting back into downtown to see the finish.
I can't believe it is a week away... I have been a bit distracted the past few days because of the Holidays. My diet has also been a bit derailed by chocolate pecan pie. I hate this taper period! My plan for this week is to refocus my diet, do the last few taper workouts, and avoid sick people. Tuesday is 4x0.5 @ Z4, Wednesday is 6 miles easy, and Thursday is some strides and thats is it!
BTW, Am meeting some other runners for dinner at Paesano's in downtown ay 5pm on Saturday. Not sure where you are staying but you are most welcome to join us. Will PM you my number.
I have now completed 34 of the 36 training runs. Tomorrow morning I do 3 or so easy miles with some strides and then Saturday is a quick shakeout run of just a couple miles. The weather is looking perfect, mid to upper 40s at start and dry with pretty calm wind conditions. I just entered my last few predicted workouts into training peaks and I should have a TSB of 8.2 on race day which I am feeling good about, didn't taper too much or too little.
The final thing is to be mentally prepared for the suck that will come but if you are waiting for it, it will make you smile to feel it and own it.
Have fun crushing yourself and the clock!
Here is the report:
http://members.endurancenation.us/Forums/tabid/57/aft/17455/Default.aspx
Thanks for all the advice and encouragement!