Pat's Dec 27th Marathon Micro Thread
I'm leading up to the 3 Bridges Marathon local to Little Rock on December 27th. My goal was to get back to run sub-4 (in the last 4 years twice sub-4, plus a number of others around 4.0x). But when I realized this week that I had a chance at doing a BQ in 2016 as I age up, pushing the goal to 3:55 became very real. So I want to dialog with you here to get your input on pushing to this goal. (FYI, I'm taking 2015 off full IM so that I can give more summer time to my wife. I'll run some 70.3's. Also I'm going to run my first 50K trail run in February - a fun run...I have some ideas on how to train for that first...Rich wanted me to get with you after the December marathon)
I'm running the intermediate marathon plan now. All going well. No issues (I was a runner before triathlon and its fun to get back to that). Last two 5K tests in the last 4 weeks have been solid 38. Earlier this year I had my 3rd fastest 5K, pushing the vdot above 39, then I sank into training in the hot summer months leading to IM Boulder.
I decided this week after figuring out that I had a chance at a BQ to push my training paces a bit to index at about a vdot of 39 with a Z2 marathon pace at the 3:55 goal (8:58/mi).
Yesterday's 18 miler was a progressive run of 8 @ Z1, 6 @ Z2 and 4 @ Z3 (run is here http://tpks.ws/ArTT). The first break is to take a picture of the starting line for the 3 bridges marathon (the race director, a local 100+ marathon runner died this week after having a heart attack at a marathon last weekend - big emotional hit for this large running community), and the other two breaks were to fuel up and hit the restroom half-way and for water at one other point.
The run felt good overall except that I really did not have it in me to push Z3 for the last 4 miles. Pretty flat with a few rolls. Z2 or better was hard but not a problem, but a mile at Z3 was not there. I was pretty well hydrated but could have done a little better (the training run i I ran on part of the race course and was two out-and-back 9 milers from the middle).
This week begins week 18 of the intermediate marathon plan. I'm up to a few more miles and pushing some speed work at the track (track opportunities are Tuesday/Thursday with a local elite runner and I love the track). Again, just want to keep up a dialog with you to gain your insight and do all it takes to hit the BQ goal. Even if I don't go to Boston in 2016, just hitting that mark will be a huge first for me at 59 going on 60.
Comments
Are you doing any cross training right now? Also I think it's very important to break down your nutrition plan training accordingly, even if just to set a routine and make sure that your training is more effective. Please let me know what that is…
I am not doing any cross training (recommendations?). Last 50 mile bike ride was two weeks ago and that was the first in weeks. I am doing yoga a couple of times a week to stretch and for core strength. I put my club membership on hold to save a few bucks, but could start that up again depending on your recommendations. Otherwise its been running 5-6 days per week with the last couple being up to 42 miles/week.
Let me get a sweat test done to gauge fluid and figure out the nutrition plan/needs. I sweat heavily so that is the primary, but in the winter that slows down greatly. I can carry a few PowerGel's but most of my intake on a marathon is usually focused on keeping fluids and electrolytes in and getting carbs from the fluids. Even though the marathon is small there are quite a few well spaced aid stations. I did not weigh before my 18 miler, but was about 175 the day before (my fluids were front loaded at my stops, carrying only a 20oz bottle). After the run I was 173.x and that was with a chocolate milk in me so I did lose a couple of pounds and that would have had an effect on the end of the run. (losing a few lbs has been difficult since IM Boulder as I have gained about 5 since August).
Looks like tomorrow is a track day with Z5 work. Should be fun. Usually spend these focusing on even pacing and cadence. Hitting the numbers has not been an issue.
http://3bridgesmarathon.com/
Thanks for the feedback. Most appreciated.
Good week thus far. Hit or beat my spadework targets on Tuesday and Thursday at the track. Hit all other workouts. Feel great. Stiff today but some yoga will help with that.
http://tpks.ws/clFL
The long run (above link) was a progressive pace 16 miler. The course is rolling except for a bridge over the Arkansas River (the Clinton bridge at one end exits at the President William Clinton Presidential library in Little Rock). Winds were gusty from the south-east so the first 6 miles were into a constant sunny wind with gusts above 10 coming from the SE. I also finished my last 2.5 miles into that wind. Kept the pace nice for the first 6 miles but about 30 seconds faster than my Z1 pace (just felt good/fun). The first loop back to my car was just over 11 miles and I only had fluid for the first 6. All my fountains had been turned off/drained since the weather turned cold this week, so I was w/o fluids for miles 7 through 11.5. Turnaround at the car was welcome (I drowned myself) and picked up another bottle and was off. Started out well, but through the last ~2.5 miles I turned into the wind. The sun had gone away and it was now cloudy with that wind at about 42 degrees. I got cold, decoupled my heart rate a bit and just could not get things moving in the last 2.5. Overall race day pace (Z2) is 8:58 so I guess I did ok. BTW the slow miles on the first 11 were me stopping to check a fountain and not an issue running (pace on graph shows).
Lessons learned were to keep consistent with fluids (duh), and on race day don't wear shorts even though I'll sweat a bit more. I think the added warmth over shorts will help the later part of the run when I've been out for a while and keep me from getting too cold.
Also I weighed myself before (172.2) but did not get the after weight. On the way home I got a call from EN'er Heather Blackiston. Saw her and another IM friend (and former pro cyclist from here in AR) out for a COLD ride along the river trail. Heather called when I was halfway home and our friend Greg had gone down and broke his arm. I turned around to scoop him up and take him to the emergency. Nasty x-ray. So by the time I got home I completely forgot to weigh myself again to check the fluid plan. I'll do it again next week.
This week beings week 19 of the Intermediate marathon plan. Only 4 runs on the plan this week. That will be tough. Time to make that 18+miler next weekend a good one. Another progressive pace run. Good.
I hear ya. You made me smile as I went to bed last night.
Change in subject. Injured myself during the Tuesday track work. Long story but with cold weather we shifted the track workout from 5am to the evening. Good warmup and strides then an acquaintance went down (ended up breaking his pelvis). So had to re-warm up after getting him to a vehicle. After re-warming began the 200's, but something gave in the 2nd rep. By the 3rd I saw that no good was going to come of continuing (hurt bad) so I quit. Took yesterday off with Yoga only for 30 minutes. Today tried an easy Z1 run and got further than I thought I would (~3.5 miles) before I had to walk. I definitely see improvement, but going to take it real cautious. This is a chronic area for me for years -- right butt where the hamstring attaches. Not the first time this has happened so I'll need to ease back into things.
I'll keep you posted. Still have plenty of time before the Dec27 race.
And thanks for the input (nutrition). On target and much appreciated.
So, I think that's the plan. Evaluate the run mid-week next week. Since last year I've taken up yoga so that will be part of the plan too. Put the tri bike on the trainer to stay loose. I have not been in the pool since Boulder, but I could reinstate my membership.
The nutrition plan I know pretty much. I'll need to shorten the run loops since all the water fountains on the race route are now shut off for the season due to cold. Like your 8-miler. Loops that are only as long as my fluids (Gatorade Endurance, with periodic PowerGel's with caffeine) hold me, then back to the car to reload and out again. I just picked up a Nathan 2 liter backpack for trails but I'm concerned that is too much weight for this training period, plus I'm not sure how to gauge fluid ingest rate sucking through a tube. The upside would be that if I could hit my training pace numbers with that extra weight, then race day would be easier.
The 18 miler is off for this weekend. I'll need leg distance once the butt heals, but we can figure that out. Still plenty of time to train for that BQ.
As always your thoughts much appreciated.
Ok. I was in a pissy mood yesterday. Better today. I ran easy 3 days last week (3, 6 and 3 miles) with minimal success and no speed. By the 3rd day I was in a lot of pain so I'm thinking that I need to nix the run for a while until I'm pain free. I'm combining bike and yoga for now. Still have not restarted my club membership for the swim, but I will do that tomorrow and ease back into master's class. Still going to the chiropractor for ART (Monday 8am is next).
The bad mood was just getting tired of the time off at the holiday and waaaayyyy to much sitting in front of the TV which is a literal PITA, it sometimes hurts so much to sit on that hamstring point. I want to get out an run but just can't now. So far I've missed 12 days and 2 long runs. The race is December 27th and I am now resigned that it will be what it is since the first goal must be running pain free. The best I can do right now is push the intensity in other things to keep my fitness up, keep up the care on the hamstring issue in my butt.
Thanks for listening.
http://tpks.ws/yFnU
Tomorrow is an 8 miler (I think). Will see what today brings, but if not overly painful through the day, then I'll try a progressive pace in the neighborhood hills. Again ease back into it. Goal is 16-20 this weekend with a progressive pace then evaluate the 3Bridges marathon on Dec 27.
MS: 2 x [1 mile @ z4/TP, 2 x 400 @ z5/IP, 200 @ z5/IP] all w/ full recoveries; Remainder of time @ z2/MP.
And could only sigh. No guts to get to a track and pound that out (yet). I love the track and hitting those kind of numbers. So I ran with Virginia (which is slow but nice to run with wife).
I'm keeping up with stretching, hydration (was up 4 times last night to pee), and overall motivation. Looking forward to 16 or 20 on Saturday. Not sure which one, but two weeks out is plenty of time to taper.
Having a dinner for all the local IM Boulder crew on Saturday evening (Heather Blackiston, David Wonn, and 3 other non-EN locals and their guests). That should be fun...run 20 then host a dinner party.
Actual (target)
6:24 (6:43)
6:12 (6:09)
6:36 (6:43) - really tried to slow down
6:08 (6:09)
Overall 6.5 mile @ 8:55 pace. Sore in butt, but was able to deal with it throughout. Never acute. Pleased. Yoga and stretch today.
http://tpks.ws/AuKG
The 3 Bridges marathon is Saturday December 27th. 4 weeks post injury I'm still not 100% and unless by an act of God I get the legs, I don't have 26.2 @ 8:58 in me. Thanks for all your help. I'll make another BQ try but not this winter. It was promising before the injury, but not now. I will probably run some at 3 Bridges or maybe even all, but at a MUCH slower pace (more on that in a moment).
I started yesterday with a new PT after speaking with a local friend and elite runner. She uses this person and I saw him yesterday for the first time...promising...I think this will be good. Healing progresses. I can hit speed workouts, but pay for it later in the day with hamstring soreness. Where I lack is the stamina to keep a strong tempo beyond about 11-12 -- that's when the soreness catches up with me and cripples my pace. I was there before the injury but that's history now.
The next goal I want you to help me with is a mid-February 50K trail run ( http://www.sylamore50k.com/default.aspx). Rich wanted me in my season plan to look you up regarding an "short" ultra to gain your input/experience. I've never done more than 26.2 (done ~15 in 7 years). Got hooked on trail runs last year doing a 25K for starters. The 50K will be a fun-run pace for me and nothing more -- just LSD and enjoying the day. Lots of hills and single track. A group of friends are already training on a plan of generally 6x6-miles road during the week, 8 road Saturday, and long on trails Sunday (currently at about 16 on Sunday). They will be using the 3 Bridges marathon for some as that week's long run (of course modifying the week to shorten other runs) -- hence my comment above about doing LSD on 3 Bridges and just enjoying the training day.
Here is what I'm thinking and where I need your input. Of course continue to heal with PT. I have seen real progress and just can't run FAST for sustained times yet. I thought of integrating JOS when it starts for weekday work with maybe one longer (6-miler) during the week. This keeps me off my legs running and starts my bike legs. Also I think I'll heal better on the bike than running so I believe the change will be good. Then skipping the JOS weekend rides till after mid-February and focusing on LSD Saturday and Sunday on trails. The long runs begin two weeks after 3 Bridges and are 20, 22 and 24 on the trails.
BTW I'm skipping full Ironman this year to give time back to my wife. I will do a couple of destination half IM's but have yet to pick any out. I really wanted to run this winter.
Your input appreciated! And if we don't speak...Merry Christmas.
We have an Ultra Plan you can review here: http://members.endurancenation.us/Resources/Wiki/tabid/91/Default.aspx?topic=Ultra+50-Miler+Plan+(Beta)
Basically it works on the principle of a split long run (Sat / Sun) which I am a huge fan of. Since you are considering the Jan OS, I would start off like this:
Weeks 1-4: Mon/Fri OFF. Tues/Thurs bike hard, with a short 30' run off them. Wed is a steady run between 6-8 miles (with friends?), then Sat/Sun with Friends.
Weeks 5-8: Same as above, but add in Friday run of about 6 miles (Friends?).
Weeks 9-12: Extend the Friday Run to like 8, Saturday becomes a 3rd bike, Sunday long with friends, and Monday easy follow up of 6-8 miles on your own.
Thoughts?
Yes I think that's the rough plan for my first ultra. I have 8 weeks till the 50K, so I'll begin to rough out the plan details based on your outline above.
I began to ease in today after Saturday's marathon with 30 minutes up to 80% on the bike then 30 minutes of yoga (i'll run Z1 for 30 later today). I had to tell my PT yesterday that even though the hamstring was tight and a little sore during the race, that yesterday (Tuesday) I felt no worse for the marathon, and even felt better than last week. So the marathon did no damage in my book, and the PT is helping week by week.
Overall the marathon race report was ugly compared to where I wanted to be, but much better than my DNF (due to flu) last year. The race passes the start/finish at mile 19.5 and although I was slow and getting cold (it rained almost all day @ ~50 degrees) I did not feel so bad that I would decide to DNF. The race finish is a 6.5 mile loop through a very flat peninsula between two rivers (the name of the park). In the last 4 miles I developed a side stitch and a knee issue (medial side), but by 24 these were mostly gone so I jogged in. At this point, any finish was a win.
Next stop Sylamore 50K trail run on February 21st. Thanks for your help. I'll keep you posted here.