UNDERSTANDING HEEL TO TOE DROP ... I DONT!!

Juan Vergara

Quite honestly I do not (yet) understand the implication of higher/lower heel to toe drop to better select which shoe better fits my needs. After having been running k-swiss for a while, their shut down forced me to go in another direction and decided to try the new "haus favorite HOKA" which I've been running with for a couple weeks and love the feel. I went for the lighter weight HUAKA (9,3oz) which has a 2mm offset and given MY PERSONAL OBJECTIVE, which is to RACE 'TILL IM 80 (Endurance!!!) I wonder if I should, at least train, with higher offset (i.e.. STINSON LITE 6mm) and use the "almost flats" just for racing and shorter runs?? 

 Wisdom and experienced advice is welcome!!!

Al Truscott

Juan...moving between a higher and lower heel/toe drop might cause injury risk or at least soreness in calf area. As with saddle height, my body can easily feel a 4 mm difference. When Ive gone back and forth between 0 and 4 mm, I start to get calf soreness. I think it also messes with my gait. So I Stick with 4 mm shoes only these days. If i want something special for racing, I go with lighter weight.

BTW, I tried Hoka Cliftons. The heels wore out in less than 100 miles.

William Crawford

I train and race in shoes that have a similar heel to toe drop. The different drops encourage different types of foot strike and I want to keep my training and racing form as consistent as possible.

I have different shoes for training and for racing different distances, but each has a very similar heel to toe drop. The difference is the support (weight) of each shoe. In other works, my marathon shoe is heavier than my 5k shoe, but the heel to toe drop is almost the same in both.

Jan Schorpion

Juan, I also just switched from KSwiss this past week. Have ran in KSwiss blade lights for the past 4 years and just switched to sauciny kinvara's. Have ran in them 3 times now and I love the feel of the shoes. They have a 4 mm drop and i can tell I need to be focused more on my form again. I also feel the soreness in my calves like Al mentioned, but that's to be expected. I think the body is very injury prone to small changes and with the amount of running you do, minimizing risk for injury is very important. Therefore I think it's best to stay with a similar shoe or amount of foot drop and you can always vary the amount of cushioning you have in your shoe

tim cronk

Juan good question... I been running in Newtons for years ( 2-4mm offset) Distance and Gravity..... Little over a year ago I tried the Newton MV4 and those things killed my calves..... Recently started running in some Zoots with a 8mm offset and felt it immediately but I'm really starting to like them.... So I dont really have an answer, like most things its individual , I'm in the process of trying different shoes , some like the Altra have 0 offset up towards 8mm of the Zoots.... Like everything its subjected to marketing and fads.... Best thing to do is run in them all and keep the ones you like! Try to block out all the hype and noise ....

Juan Vergara

Thanks for the input!!
My doubt (still) is what do one gains / looses from lower / higher drop???
If I understand correctly lower drop facilitates front/mid-sole landing but it increases preassure on the calf and aquiles.
And vice versa??? Is that it???
Any other "benefits" / "trade offs"?

Robert Sabo

I run in newtons for many years. I just got a pair of Altras to wear during the day and maybe to run in. The calf and Achilles issue is because your Achilles will shorten from wearing shoes and running sneakers with a drop. When you change to a smaller or to a zero drop your Achilles is stretched and may get inflamed til your body grows accustomed to it. Therefor you will need to slowly merge the lower drop shoe not your workouts over a few weeks. The theory behind lower drop is you use your foot more naturally relying on the spring of the tendon and ligaments of the foot.

John Withrow

I have a slightly different philosophy on shoes than many people. I have a whole bunch of different shoes all with slightly different characteristics that I rotate through. I "think" that running in the exact same pair of shoes every single day can "possibly" lead to some of the overuse injuries from the exact same foot strike/repetition every day. So I rotate through a bunch of different Hoka's that all have different drops and cushioning level. Primarily they are Stinsons, Bondi Speed S2, and Clifton's. But I also rotate in my Conquests and occasionally my trail shoes and the Sinson Lites. I always race in my Cliftons, but like the bulkier shoes for the majority of my training. If you rotate different shoes with different drops, you will have "different" calf soreness for the first several weeks, but I don't get any calf (or other) soreness now with any of my shoes.

Brad Marcus

Great topic and I don't fully understand the correlation in terms of benefits. I'm the extreme who has run with an 11mm offset in Brooks Ghosts for the last 3 years. Aside from my first year of running, which was the year prior, I've been relatively injury free. I've been VERY hesitant to change a thing, but like many companies, Brooks is always coming out with newer models, some good and some bad. I decided over the last few months to try to move to a lessor offset, and lighter shoe and see how this would affect my speed, endurance and ability to recover. I' tried a pair of Saucony with an 8mm offset and immediately felt tension on my Achilles / Heel, especially running uphill - makes sense. After a few weeks, it subsided. I pr'd a half marathan in those shoes a couple weeks later - correlation is impossible to tell for sure. My Brooks are a softer, heavier ride while my Sauconys are harder and quicker feel - think Cacillac vs performance car. But the bottom line is that I agree with Robert that I am using more of my muscle and tendon as opposed to relying on the lift on the shoe. I will try a 4mm next and see how it feels, but at the end of the day, I think we all need to be careful of injury. Also starting to think switching up shoes (offsets, tread patterns), as JW mentions may be a benefit.

Scott Alexander

I contemplated the methodology of having different shoes for different purposes, but simplicity rules! I'm a full HOKA man now, use em for all my running, road and dreadmill, training (long runs, track, hills, trail, etc) and racing.

I tried the Altras, but destroyed my Achilles.

Regardless of your shoe choice, you've got to allow time for adaptation, with initial soreness, and increasing distances SLOWLY.

William Jenks

My experience is similar to Tim's and Al's. For the last 4-5 year's, I've been running in Newtons (mostly gravity). I have a pair of MV2 flats that I OCCASIONALLY get out for a track workout...but one of the points of that workout is that it's short but I'm really emphasizing the forefoot form thing. With my "Distance" model, I have to wear my orthotics in order to not get calf/achilles discomfort, but I do not wear orthotics in the Gravities.... In the end I think the reason for this is that the drop is about 2 mm less in the Distance and my orthotics probably raise my heel by just about that amount. In other words, I think I wear the orthotics to even out the drop of the two shoes, rather than because I need the arch support and stability in one shoe and not the other.

I share John's idea that rotating shoes is a good idea. I used to be much better about it when I wasn't running in Newtons, though. I've gone back to it to a degree now with the Distance and Gravities (very different "squishiness" under the foot), but I would be happy to have another pair that I could throw in there without worry. I should look for some more shoes with 3-4 mm drops!

John Withrow

@Scott- I'm all Hokas all the time as well... I just have 4-5 different styles of Hoka's and just pick a different pair for each run.

@WJ and others, the simplest way to rotate shoes is to just buy a couple pairs of your favorite and rotate the new ones in before the old ones wear out. Even using different pairs of the same exact model shoes will be slightly different on your feet if they are at a different point in their useful life (i.e. A brand new pair vs a pair with 250 miles on them).

Anu Rao

I agree with John Withrow, I have been running for several years now and rotating through multiple shoes seems the best approach. It prevents stresses on anyone part of the legs from becoming an issue. used to be plagued with calf issues but this approach of rotating through multiple models of shoes has completely fixed that. And well lets face it, as a woman, I loves me some new shoes. I am training mostly in Hoka Kailua Tarmac and have another Clifton on the way, racing in Saucony Kinvaras. Had a couple of other shoes in rotation also.



All that to say, whatever shoe drop you try you have to break it in gradually. As with anything else there are no instant solutions, muscular adaptation takes time. I think shoes are one part of the answer, getting on the foam roller or using the stick regularly, hydration, keeping the muscles loose. Getting regular massages is another thing that has helped me.

Chris Davis

My experience has been that higher drop shoes forced my heel to strike sooner. I transitioned to zero drop shoes (Brooks Pure Flows, minimalist and flexible sole) and made a very concerted effort to get away from heel striking after a bout of plantar fasciitis. I overcompensated and became a toe runner. I liked the pureflow feel, but I knew that toe running was going to get me in trouble long term (and probably wasnt sustainable for long distances anyways). I then changed over to the Altra Torins (zero drop, rigid sole, big toe box) and really like them. I still find that I'm a slight toe runner, but the rigid sole and zero drop together keep me much closer to mid foot striking. Since I prefer the feel of slight toe running, my foot tends to land directly below, or maybe slightly behind my body. I think that if I were to transition to a mid-foot striker, I'd go with a slight drop so that my foot remains at the same angle relative to the ground.