How do I pace a duathlon?

jaleslie

How would you pace a 5K/25K/5K duathlon?  Race is in two weeks.  Should be cool/cold. Bike is quite hilly (rollers, some steep, but nothing prolonged).  I'm assuming TT bike rather than road bike?  I'm doing pretty much only B/R currently, fitness is pretty good for me right now.  Never done one of these, but thought it was good to keep me motivated before Jan OS.  

Thanks in advance.  JL

 

Brenda Ross

Hi Jeff, I was a duathlete for 8 years before I became a triathlete. The goal in a duathlon is to run the first run and the second run at a pace that is 5-10secs apart i.e. first 5km at a 8min mile and 2nd run at a 8:05 mile. Its a bit late now, but if you choose to do more, what my coach had me doing is bricks where one week I did a run first at race pace followed by a bike and then the next week a bike at race pace followed by a run. As for what bike to use - it all depends on what you have been training on. I would ride whatever you have been training on. Hope this helps.

Paul Hough

Try to run both segments at your 15K race pace. If you run the first at 5K pace you will be MUCH slower on the second. Even 10K race pace would be too fast with a hard bike in the middle.

Mike Roberts

Hey JL,

Those distances put the race between sprint and oly. When I'm in doubt, I always default to faster and dumber. If I blow up, it'll be later in the second run, so it won't be too much pain and there will be no "what if I went faster?" thoughts. So, if Dumb Mike were doing it, I'd run the first 5k at TP minus 15 seconds (or about 15 seconds slower than 5k pace), FTP pace on the bike (keep watts under 300 on the hills), then put them against the wall for the second run (speed up until you cramp and/or gag, then slow down 2-5 seconds per mile, hold on for dear life).

If you're looking for advice on how to run a smart, pain-free and thoroughly enjoyable race, ignore everything above.

Mike

MattAaronson

I'm with Mike. That is a short race. If you blow up there won't be much distance left. Running at 15k pace seems a bit slow to me. Maybe 10k pace or around that.

tim cronk

@JL - I've never done a duathlon but here is my thoughts..... What is your rough estimated total race time? 1.5 hrs give or take ? Threshold is the power/pace you can hold for 1hr.... Pacing should be just under threshold but it should feel like threshold.... Try not to PUKE!

Al Truscott

IMO, the runs should *feel* like a 10K pace. To translate to EN training terms, that means it should *feel* a little bit harder than the  TP intervals we do. At least the last half of the first run, and all of the second run. The first mile or so should be @ that TP pace, which will *feel* fairly easy, and the second mile 5 sec/mile or so faster than the first. Then lock into 10K pace/RPE.

During the bike, continuously ask yourself, "Can I go harder?". Excepting, again, the first couple of miles. Use that time to warm up your diesel.

IMO, for any endurance event (over about 10 minutes or so), best times will come from an even or slight negative split time-wise. I'd try to run both run legs in the same time (assuming they are on the same course).

Paul Hough

There is no way that anyone can race their open 10K race pace in a duathlon with the same total run distance AND a hard bike effort in the middle unless they sandbagged all their previous 10K road races. Racing your open 15K race across the 10K of this duathlon allows margin for the bike leg and and is designed for an even pace effort...the fastest way to finish a duathlon. The reality is that almost everyone will run the first 5K way too hard and PAY the piper with a slower bike split than they would otherwise have and a much slower second run leg.

Regardless of what Jeff decides to do, he should calculate in advance his target total 10K time for the duathlon at current 15K OPEN run pace and then after the race, add the actual splits and compare them to the 10K target. If you don't have a recent 15K open race pace, then take what you have (5K, 10K, etc) and convert it with running race calculator. Report back with your duathlon results please.

At Powerman Zof this year, I was amazed at the number of folks who ran the first 10K leg as if it were an open race, given a 150K bike leg and another 30K run to follow. But then again, the high DNF rate wasn't surprising.

Al Truscott

Paul - you're right. I think I was a little too careless in my wording. I was trying to emphasize several things:

• Go slower than you think you should the first mile or two on the first 5K By the end of that leg, it should *feel* like you're running a 10K, but your pace may be more like the TP we train miles at - which is closer to a 15K pace.
• Aim for the second 5K to be the same speed or a little bit faster than the first, in essence, a slight negative split
• The second 5 K should start out *feeling* like a 10K effort, with 5K RPE or harder by the last mile - but again, the pace will probably be like that TP we do mile repeats in, which is based on "how fast can you run for an hour?"

MattAaronson

I just looked up some of my old results to add some data into the mix. My one and only dualthon was in in May 2010. It was a ~2 mile run followed by a ~20 mi bike then a ~4.5 mi run. I did both runs at virtually identical VDOTs (the first at 42.94 and the second at 42.83). These runs were not flat and the bike was very hilly. I also ran a bunch of open road races that spring on flay and very fast courses. These were anything from 10k to 10mi. My VDOTs in those races were between 44 and 45. So my duathlon runs were ~1-2 VDOT points slower than my open road races. I would suggest more like 1 point, given the topography difference. Also that duathlon was my first-ever multisport race so my execution skills were non-existent! I didn't join EN until January OS of 2011!!

jaleslie

Thanks for all of the helpful advice (actually, I think MR wants me to die!).  I probably will not have power for this race, as I'm sending my PT in to be recalibrated tomorrow...they tell me it's out of whack (which hopefully explains why my FTP has not budged in a year (yet I'm faster consistently on same rides)).  But, this is just a "for fun" and "keep me motivated" deal, the bike is not that long, and so it's not a huge loss.  I will push the bike hard but not quite FTP level hard and keep my HR in the upper 140's or so (or the last run will just suuuuuuck (and be even slower than my usual slowness).  

I'll plug in my data into a run calculator thingy and get my 15K pace and use that as a guide, pushing the last 1-2 miles to tolerance/collapse (MR!).  

Thanks for chiming in.  Very helpful as always.  JL

 

Mike Roberts

JL, your original post only asked how to "pace" this "race." You conveniently omitted any mention of "fun" or "low HR." And you got some great advice here from others far smarter than me, and (as usual) I'm leaving with new perspective. That said, Dumb Mike would go into a race like this looking for a top 10-15 overall and, with 40 min of running and 40 min of biking, I would still be looking to push threshold, easing off the gas a bit only during the opening run. Pushing the envelope hurts like Hell, but it's also fun, frequently surprising, and occasionally rewarding, with the only downside being that you might taste your breakfast 2x or jog the last half mile. Of course, as the race distances get longer, Smart Mike has to sub for the dumb version or bad things happen.

jaleslie

Completed this local duathlon today.  Actually won my AG, but only had 5 in it!  11th OA.  Beat all the women!  

It was ~60degrees and blustry/windy.  Run course was 5K before and after the bike, an out and back route.  Uphill constantly going out and downhill coming back (thankfully).  My goal was 8:00 mile for the first mile, and then 7:45.  Did pretty well with that...splits on Strava.

Bike (25K) was very difficult out an back, with constant rollers, some steep (8-10%) frequently in and out of small chainring, headwind coming back.  We joked afterwards that it was either 25+mph or 8-10mph.  The only "flats" were the top of the rollers and the short "valleys".  Additionally, the route crossed under I-10 twice each way, with 90degree turns in the valleys, so free speed downhill was lost twice each direction.  

I'm happy with the run pacing....used the guidance of ~15K pace basically.  Not sure exactly what my vDot is currently, as I hate 5k TTs and basically just avoid them until I have to do one!  The bike pacing was a total crapshoot, as my PT is with Saris being recalibrated.  Not sure how much it would have helped me today anyway. I'm sure I was overshooting FTP up the steeper sections and then just recovering and trying to take advantage of free speed on the other side before the next roller came along.  This course was more like a roller coaster than anything!  Stayed aero on all but the steepest sections.  Wish I had worn something a little tighter...I thought my windproof run vest was pretty snug, but the flapping noise at >20mph said otherwise.  

Pleased with the day, not sure I could have gone any faster (without risk of puking) with my current body/fitness.  The last mile I had trouble maintaining <8:00/mi pace (GAP shows I slowed down the last mile).  I was definitely about out of gas, which I guess is the goal!  </p>

Took a gel 30mins before, and another towards end of bike.  Drank 24oz perform on the bike from Speedfill A2.  

Thanks for the advice.  

Mike Roberts

Beautiful. AG win says it all. Congrats! But . . . the "risk of puking" is something to embrace, not fear/avoid.

Al Truscott

First out of five is better than any of the alternatives! I like the level of your competitiveness: "I beat all the women."