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time length of intervals.

robin sarnerrobin sarner
in Coaching Forum 🧢

this has been discussed before.   but just wanted to get the coaches current thoughts.

for bike intervals:::    does 2 x 15 minutes of ftp work = 3 x 10 minutes or 5 X 6 minutes?

                               does 2 x 7 minutes of vo2 work = 1 x 14 minutes?

So, is total time at goal the main thing?         or does length of each interval matter much?

thanks.

Comments

  • Coach PatrickCoach Patrick
    Oooh, great question. I think indoors the time of the interval is everything; outdoors you can slick it and dice it as you see fit to make your road, terrain, safety work for you.

    Indoors I would say 2x15 with 5' rest after each = 3x10 with 2' rest after each, for example.

    I think the bigger question here is "What is your goal for the OS?" That will determine where you invest your time.

    For me I am working to get my FTP up to new heights. So I am riding fixed 2x12' intervals. This way every week I will see my progress or lack thereof. Once I hit my goal number at 2x12' I will begin to lift the duration of that interval...but first it's the FTP.

    Can you share some goals? Hope you are having a great holiday season!
  • MattAaronsonMattAaronson
    Sorry to reply to a micro thread but I can't resist. I think the length matters a lot for both FTP and VO2 max intervals. For example, the difference between 20x1'(1'), 10x2'(2') and 7x3'(3') @ 120% is fundamental and I doubt the physiological adaptations are the same.
  • Coach PatrickCoach Patrick
    Matt, you are welcome to comment! I don't think the difference is as fundamental as you think. If we put 200 lbs on a bench press bar and I tell you to:

    (1) lift it 8 times in a minute, then rest 3 minutes, and repeat three times....or...

    (2) lift it 3 times in 30 seconds, rest 90 seconds, and do that 8 times...or...

    (3) lift it 1 time a minute, and do that every 24 times...

    The net is the same: 200lbs moved 24 times. Sure if you move space the rest or the duration you can squeeze out incremental levels of change, but I don't think the person doing #1 is significantly less fit than #2 or #3. They are just better at the mode of work they have chosen.

    Take the 110% hack, for example, from the wiki. I perosonally find time a 110%, that I can do 4' or 5' intervals at, much better for my FTP work vs 120%. It's just 10%. It's the same amount of time I would have done for both workouts, but I like the duration that dropping 10% gets me...

    Now when I hit a plateau, I might consider changing the effort / duration equation to see if I can find some new stimulus, but it's incremental to me.

    Would love more input on this topic!
  • robin sarnerrobin sarner

    I am doing OS.   week 6.

    I agree with points about the total work accomplished.   but not sure about how the length of intervals affects.       I am guessing there is not much difference between doing 1 minute 120% intervals versus 2 minute intervals.        I would guess that the 100% work, and what you get out of it, is more affected by the interval length.

    so my goal is to get faster for the 5+ hours of a flat ironman bike.    obvious but can't hurt to restate.    specifically shooting for 3 watts/kg for the race which seems to the sweet spot for pointy enders.   so for my goal racing weight of 182 lbs, this is 248 watts.  for tremblant think I went 235 watts np.     my current indoor ftp may be 308.   maybe +5-10% for outside.       so I shoot to get my ftp to race at a percentage of it (up to 75%) (330x.75=248) and/or work on my five hour power.   

    my sense of myself is that I am maxed on the ftp and that working on the five hour power is where I need to concentrate.      sense could be wrong.  

    thanks

  • Coach PatrickCoach Patrick
    Thanks for the clarification. I think where you focus your time as a function of where you are in your year. If you are more then 15 or 20 weeks away from your race, you're better off doing the shorter work to get that FTP up closer to say 320 or 330. Once you are outside, you can spend more time doing three, four, and maybe even one five hour ride closer to your target of 240 and 250 normalized. But all of that stems from getting stronger on the bike which starts with the shorter fitness. If I were doing things more intentionally with you, I would help you pick a time duration for an FTP interval that you could complete the 320, 325 or even 330 level. I would have you get comfortable with that interval and continue to raise your fitness there as you extend the time. Almost reverse engineering it! That make sense?
  • robin sarnerrobin sarner

    yes makes sense.                have been doing the reverse engineering.

    in other words shut up and do the Out Season.     image   kidding.

    have enjoyed getting back to a dedicated Out Season.

    have worked up to four hour bike on Saturday during the Out Season.      am trying to get more long bikes (4-5 hours) under my belt for this OutSeason and ironman build.     not quite to Dave Tallo level but more for me.       

     

  • Coach PatrickCoach Patrick
    That's good. On nice long ride a week (like the one long run) is good to have. You don't have to kill yourself on it...but logging it makes a difference!!
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