Home› General Training Discussions

Fast Before Far

Knighton1Knighton1
in General Training Discussions

Just how deep
does “Fast Before Far” go?  Is there a point of diminishing returns, a fast saturation point, or a point
for which fast is what is (in a given season)? 
I would imagine there will be different answers based on a plethora of
variables, such as one’s genes, age, ability, length of time in the sport, etc.  Barring that, does EN have any data on this?  Is there a magic number of weeks/months to
build your “fast” before transitioning into your “far” such that doing so
maximizes that particular year’s fast without leaving too much on the table?   


Which twin would be
faster in their targeted IM physiologically (without regard to other variables, mental or
otherwise)?


1.     Stay in the fast-type plans (OS, Get
faster, etc.) all year till 12 weeks out from an IM, then transition to IM plan

2.     OS plan, HIM plan, HIM race, Get
faster, IM Plan, IM Race.


Comments

  • Coach RichCoach Rich

    Posted By Chris Knighton on 02 Jan 2015 01:07 PM

    Just how deep
    does “Fast Before Far” go?  Is there a point of diminishing returns, a fast saturation point, or a point
    for which fast is what is (in a given season)? 
    I would imagine there will be different answers based on a plethora of
    variables, such as one’s genes, age, ability, length of time in the sport, etc.  Barring that, does EN have any data on this?  Is there a magic number of weeks/months to
    build your “fast” before transitioning into your “far” such that doing so
    maximizes that particular year’s fast without leaving too much on the table?   


    Which twin would be
    faster in their targeted IM physiologically (without regard to other variables, mental or
    otherwise)?


    1.     Stay in the fast-type plans (OS, Get
    faster, etc.) all year till 12 weeks out from an IM, then transition to IM plan

    2.     OS plan, HIM plan, HIM race, Get
    faster, IM Plan, IM Race.



    Hi Chris,

    Not sure I completely understand your question? I can tell you what the reality is:

    • At some point in the season I have to switch you from out "FAST" family of plans (OS, FP, GF, etc) over to our FAR plans, the plans we use to get you ready to race. These are the HIM and IM plans, usually.
    • For HIM athletes, I put them in about the last 7-10wks of the HIM plan, based on a number of factors.
    • For IM athletes, I put them in the last 12-16wks of the IM plan. I would say I very, very rarely put our athletes into less than 10-11wks of the IM plans. These < 10wk peeps are folks I know very well, I know their history, know they know what they're doing, stuff like that. 
    • Most HIM athletes, due to the scheduling/timing of their first HIM, fall into your #1 category above. I'd say they are in this category because of the reality of the calendar. That is, at some point (~8-10wks out from their race, per my note above) I need to switch gears over to training them for an HIM. 
    • Most IM athletes, due the reality that most IM athletes race an HIM in route to their IM, fall into your #2 category. Again, I'd say this is less about theory/coachy-coachy stuff and more about the simple reality that (1) racing an HIM means I need to switch gears and build HIM endurance #x weeks before the HIM, and (2) transition from this over to racing an IM means I need to convert that HIM fitness to IM fitness, by adding volume to your week and subsequently building your endurance. 

    So I guess what I'm saying is:

    • While it's interesting to discuss the theories of stuff like this, the above is reflection of reality and the calendar really determines what you do and when.
    • I'd say the results of the Team, at both the HIM and IM distances, points in the direction that ^this^ works.

    All of that said, I think the bigger fundamental difference between how we do and how other coaches / self-coached athletes do it is that I absolutely guarantee that a large percentage of the HIM and IM world woke up this past Monday, or yesterday morning (Jan 1), or next Monday, January 5th with their heads in the space of "I am now training for IMXX...in August, Sept, October, or November."

    This headspace setting was accompanied by the attendant "I need to build my endurance for these events NOW" = massive trainer miles, late winter marathons, LSD training, etc, the results of which, again, speak for themselves year after year in (1) burned out athletes come about May or June, (2) athletes who continue to be slow despite months of endurance specific / volume-centric training, and (3) athletes who continue to underachieve on race day due to their inattention to the details of race execution. 

  • Knighton1Knighton1
    Coach-

    Thanks for the response, I'm sorry I wasn't very clear. I get what you're saying and I'm on board 100%.

    To show you where my mind is, I have IMFL scheduled for 2015 and I am not training for it right now as per your reasons above. After IMTX, I spent the last half of 2014 on the GF, Short Course, and Bike Focus and reaped huge benefits, so I'm sold on staying in the fast mode for as long as possible. I'm in the OS now and am debating on whether to do a Juneish HIM or just race shorter races keeping the fast focus going. The question for me comes to whether doing a HIM will in any way jeopardize potentially getting faster between now and 12 weeks out from IMFL. Will sticking to short course/fast plan stuff in an effort to build speed and power trump dropping into a HIM for 7-10 weeks and if so, how much gain will be potentially lost doing the HIM?
  • TH3 FRBTH3 FRB

    Rich gave you the reality answer - if you intend to race HIM/IM you need to start getting the volume beginning at some point out from race day. Assuming you plan out the start of your OS sufficiently in advance I think the reality answer addresses your question regarding diminishing returns. Although the "get fast" work we do is very effective there is still a point where you'll begin to plateau. I don't suspect you can string together 6 months of OS workouts and continue to see the same consistent gains from start to finish. The coaches have evolved the OS plans to be 14 weeks and I think that's probably a good target in terms of needing to switch the training stimulus to continue making progress. Plus from a mental health standpoint, 3 months is a reasonable limit to tolerate the same routine before you want to change it up if for no other reason but to avoid mental burnout.

    Personally, I like using a HIM as a mid-season "A" race to see where I'm at before jumping into my IM specific training.  I know my training hasn't been 100% ideal for the distance but I freelance some additional volume in near the end of the OS with longer weekend rides  to help prepare.  I think the most important consideration though is ensuring that you factor in the 2-3 weeks needed for full recovery and still have the 10-16 weeks you need to layer the "far" on the fitness you've already built and taper.

  • kimmydctkimmydct
    Chris- I had a similar situation / question. I'm doing IMCHOO sept 27 and have seen great results with OS/SC/GF plans as well and also wanted to stay if GF type plans as long as possible. ( And save some SAUs). I ended up opting to skip a HIM for those reasons (as well as some others) with the caveat I need to be doing some run mileage beyond what's in the GF type plans. I plan to do that with Half marathons vs. HIM. (A lot cheaper too!). Running is my limiter so that makes sense for me.

    That being said, given what you've just told us and Coach R, you can submit your info for your season roadmap and see what makes sense. Good luck!
  • Knighton1Knighton1
    Joel & Kim -

    Thanks for the responses. Joel, that's sort of where I was going with my question about plateauing and doing longer OS type work.

    I'm awaiting my roadmap from Coach R.




Sign In or Register to comment.