Stephan, you killed it. Literally....Day One was perfect....Day Two usually sucks (not in the chafing / foot way, but still) and the run is hard, but honestly I thin the current weather was the factor that really hurt you the most.
So HR lower on bike b/c fatigued and you can't do the work to get the numbers up. HR higher on the run b/c you are stiff, tired and inefficient....probably a bit dehydrated too...so expected again.
But, the good news is you have a great nutrition plan, clearly solid fitness too....two very big wins!!!
I think you are right, the 130-132 range is great...of course, heat can push that up slightly, but anything higher than 4-6 beats than normal should be a red flag for you.
HI Coach, I copied a thread that I shared with my IMLOU folk. It is a picture of my performance manage last year to today. It shows my build up to IMWI and to now. Did know if you could read these and tell me anything. My
So, I did my first insert of a picture. Sorry it is so big. Took me forever to figure out how to do it. It does seem that my chronic training load is much higher than last year. I have been averaging about 16-17 hrs the last 4-5 weeks, and before that I was averaging closer to 10 hr weeks.. My swimming is usually the first thing to go, and I clipped a couple of shorter runs last week because of the two two big ones of 14 and 15 miles in one week, Monday and Thursday. That left me with only 31 miles rather than the 40 plus assigned last week.
Update from this weekend and today:
Saturday I hit a solid 90 miles doing the loops and a little extra on the IMWI course. It was really cold and a little windy. The next day, day of the race, it was warmer and less windy. Perfect day. I put in about 70 miles and stopped several times to cheer on and watch the bicyclists go up Midtown, down Garfield, through Mt Horeb, and across messerschmidt (spelling). I had a blast and climbed several new hills. The roads off the course are really nice. I actually like them better than the course as there are fewer cars, and lots of steep hills. I had an all around blast. Got to see John on his fat tire bike going up Midtown. He didn't know who I was but he smiled at me. I did learn that you can make ENers upset when you shout, Race Smart at them as they are big gearing up a steep hill. OVerall I felt really good even though i was fatigued from a hard week.
My goal this week is to complete every single assigned workout. This morning I got in the notorious Monday swim that I skip a lot. Felt good.
SB, hard to tell without knowing some of the numbers, but I like what I see...I like three builds (first two with rest) vs one long steady build.
As you noted, yes, as the fatigue sets in, frequency is your friend. I am at the point now that I forced myself to get in a bigger Monday ride just in case my week goes hell...I mean, WHEN.
I am glad your Sunday ride was fun, those are more important than you know...can't be too serious all the time!
Watch the long run this week...feel free to split it AM/Pm if you are beat....just keep the fires burning for a little...bit...longer!
Hi there, thought I would check in since we didn't get to talk at the webinar. I am in a weird space this week. I have been following the plan and find that all my workouts feel like I have no strength or mojo. I could barely hold 50 percent ftp on my bike ride, running IM Pace today for 7.7 miles felt like I was slugging along, and the "recovery swim" today was super slow, yet I felt tired. argh. I'm assuming this is just all the weeks before coming home to roost so to speak. I can't wait until I get my mojo back.
Still haven't written up a race plan yet, but I will be sticking to what I practiced with nutrition, pace, and heart rate. I have that dialed in pretty good. The only question I have is that once I have run the first hour at the average HR I had during the last 90 minutes of my ride (I'm guessing it will be between 125 and 130),, can I begin to feel ok with the heart rate going up into the 30s and closer to 40. In my last race at IM Wisconsin, it was the reverse, I started in my 140s, and ended in the mid 120s. I won't make that mistake again.
Also have to wait and see what the weather will bring.
slowly getting back into this. Changed over to Run Durability1 as you suggested and am doing week 1. Still not 100% back psychologically, but like the lower volume of this plan. Much more manageable, healing relationships at work and spending more time with family Definitely had some people at work who resented how little I attended to them in the couple months leading up to IMLOU. Getting my work mojo back as I lose my workout mojo.
Couple questions regarding adding running races to the run durability throughout the winter: 5 mile races or 5k races? I tend to like the 5 milers better since they are longer. Have several Turkey Trots, and then the YMCA winter running series for Dec, Jan, Feb. If I stick to the same distance I can see how I'm doing with VO2 that way. Just thinking about long term impact of hard 5 miles verse hard 3 miles for run durability and injury reduction for this 50 year old. I know that there isn't much intensity for run durability early on. Should I skip the races?
My zone 1 is 9:37, zone 2, 8:15 so, I shot for around 9 minute miles. What should I be watching for as I go forward with this plan regarding HR and pace. I would imagine that i won't see as much cardiac creep when I maintain a solid pace.
Also, do I maintain pace even on hills, etc.... or do I need to back off on hills and keep my heart rate consistent? Treadmill workouts are more fun with rolling hills, but it is hard to change the pace.
I didn't want to say anything but they paid me to put you on the RDP cuz they missed you. Seriously though, glad you have the big picture in mind here. I think that in addition to the win at work, your body will thank you. I am always amazed at how much I ache when I start back up with the training again...makes me wonder how I ever do an IM!
5 milers are okay but I wouldn't run one hard quite yet. Maybe enjoy the Turkey Trot but you can pick up the effort for the other "run series" that you mentioned...
As for how you know RDP is working..what a friggin insightful question. Can't believe I haven't included that guidance yet. First, you should see your HR drop for that same pace (so early 9 min miles are at 150....later 9 min miles are at 145, etc). If you were running by HR you'd see the pace drop a bit as well.
More importantly, running should just be second nature. Wake up, lace'm up...get to work!
Hi Coach, finished up Run Durability 9 mos out, moving to 8 mos out.
As we talked about, i ran the two turkey trots for fun with my wife and family. Ended up being @ around my TRP so it was all good.
I haven't run hard except on tuesdays with the 2 x1 mile. Mostly do those on the treadmill. I've been skipping my swims but doing everything else. Need to start picking those up again.
I have two questions:
1) The first of my monthly 5 mile YMCA race series is this coming Saturday, December 5. Should I run that hard or keep it at the TRP and just do it for fun. I could go either way. Would I just count that as my 30 minute Saturday run, or lengthen it to a long run and then do a shorter run on Sunday with the bike on Sunday? When do you want me testing my pace? Maybe OS Jan?
2) I'm still deciding on whether to do a half ironman this year or not. Do you think it makes any difference whether I do two olympics rather than an olympic followed by a half ironman, when it comes to IMWI run execution? There is the new milkman half ironman in Madison in June, as well as the Toughman Wisconsin Half that I can do . The problem is that our local race conflicts with those dates and it is an olympic distance race. That would be fun for me, but I want to do what is best for my run execution and IM race, so could forgo it to get the half iron in.
Stephan, awesome you got some family run time in there!! Those are the best miles. I say that you can start to run harder on the Sat races, but build...so first one has last two miles hard...next one has last 3, etc...no need to drag race 5 miles out of the gate....that's a bit much. I am not saying duck walk the first half..just run within your means.
No testing until January really...just track your efforts now.
As for race day, your Race Simulations (camp week as #1 of those) are far more important....if we can nail those dates / times, then 2 x OLY is fine!!!
Running Durability 8mos out is going good. I'm hitting everything and even having fun in the process. Starting to feel more comfortable at that pace. The weather in Wisconsin has been incredible for running. No Ice or Snow, been outside most of it. My avg weekly last year was a little under 20 miles, with a couple big weeks in the 30s. This month I have been averaging about 25 miles per week. I plan to bump that up to a big week of about 35 or so by doing the 8 day straight challenge before the beginning of the Jan OS. My last swim felt decent like I was still in ok form. The bike has been definitely dropping in form and fitness. But I'm sure that will pick up once I go back to 3x a week in the OS.
Do you want me to follow the OS as written, or am I to tweak it for the run durability emphasis I am in? I got a little confused with the three year plan and then your recent changes. For example, will the 28 straight days be a part of this outseason, or do I need to put that in at some point?
I also have the second of 3, 5 mile YMCA race on Saturday, January 9th. This month you had me NOT race the December 5 mile which was fine. I would like to use that as my test run to determine VDOT. Would that be ok to swap Wednesday run with Sat. Run?
Stephan...what a glorious Dec for running for sure! And yes, swap those runs for your testing, and stay loose with a short run on Friday...move Sat bike to Sunday for that weekend.
The changes in RD mean you stick with the General OS plan...we can see where you are at come FEB if we want to line up the challenge for running, for now let's see how you handle the early weeks of the OS with the added bike!
Stephan, you are welcome to give the Adv OS a go -- the deal breaker will be how you feel at week 8...if the training load is such that your weekends are no bueno or you are just really tired in general, then promise me you'll dial it back for the second half / final 6 weeks of the OS. Deal?
I'd like to set up a phone conversation with you some time to review the Run Durability work I've been doing since November. I have been keeping the numbers in the outseason tracker for both Nov and Jan OS eventhough I didn't start OS work until Jan and stuck to the Run Durability Plans for Nov, Dec.
What I would like to know from you before we talk is what kind of data would you be interested in learning from me to help me gauge progress and have a meaningful conversation with you about my running?
I have all the data on TP, Strava, etc.... Just not sure what to do with it.
Thanks, and so far I've been sticking with advanced OS, but scale back from time to time.
I'd like to know: + Last weeks avg run miles per week across the year. + Avg weekly miles Jan 2015 vs Jan 2016. + Your IM race pace vs the run pace you are doing now (and Avg HR for both).
Also just your anecdotal feedback on how things are going!
Hi Coach, thought I would check in. I copied in a post I made on the OS run thread for wk 10. I've been having really solid running weeks overall, but this week things went south, and I backed off big time. Hope to pick it up next week.
From the post:
"I've also backed way off on my running this week. I don't think I can call it slacking but it feels that way emotionally. I've been sticking to the RD plan since November never skipping a run workout. The past months I've built up to @30 avg week volume. Last year I was around 21 avg. Up until this week, i had been feeling strong and motivated with my running. Last Sunday's long run went well with the 400s. I even had a decent 30 minute run on Tuesday at lunch and a solid output (but really challenging) on the bike that evening with the new FTP numbers.
Wednesday, I lost steam and didn't even attempt the run. I was feeling fatigued and my sleep was suffering. Thursday, I tried to go out and run for 30 minutes, and ended up run walking with my run barely in zone 1. My heart rate was super high and I was tired. Scary for me after so many solid weeks. I skipped the bike that evening and didn't run on Friday. My bike ride yesterday went really well, but I decided to skip the run and make this a recovery week. Since the bike went well, I was feeling more optimistic. I will see how today goes. I may shorten it or lower intensity if my heart rate is still high when I run. We shall see.
My guess is that my running body just needed a break this week, and the higher FTP numbers and the VO2 work last weekend took a little more out of me than I thought.
Decided I was feeling good enough to do the 90 minutes at a little faster than TRP, but skipped the 400s. Feels like my running energy may be coming back. Not 100 percent but much better.
Thanks for checking in...yes to the compounding effect of fatigue; consistent work is also tiring, so I am glad that you backed off such that you were able to recover. That is ALWAYS the best course of action every time. We need to make sure you are back to 100% before you try to do that...upside is the new numbers, proof positive that your hard work is paying off.
So the formula is hard work.....new levels / training zones...watch fatigue/rest if needed...resume hard work...repeat...repeat...
Hi Coach, starting the get faster and wondered if I need to modify it at all to keep the run durability going or just stick to the 4x a week running in the plan. I petered out a little at the end of the OS, but kept the run volume up for the most part. Don't want to lose the gains.
Stephan, I think we need to pick your poison. If you want to get some run speed in, then I would stick to the four runs and the focus on quality in this phase. You'll have time to run long again come IMWI build.
If you don't see the benefits of speed, or are worried about injury, then let's stick the RD plan.
Let me know if you choose Door #2 and I can help navigate that space for you!
Wanted to check in. Been struggling with motivation, but have been hitting most of my targets with a few exceptions. Work has been extra demanding lately and I have had to give more time there (i.e hard to sneak away at lunch for runs, plus stress has been playing a factor).
Last weekend tested my swim at Big Swell 2.4 wetsuit near madison. https://www.strava.com/activities/635436976 I was happy with a time of 1:12:00. That is around the time I have completed all of my IMs. I have done that with very little swimming. My rotator cuff has been really sour the last months and swimming is possible but it leaves my shoulder feeling more sore. My doctor says I haven't injured it seriously like in a tear but my muscles around the shoulder have atrophied. Last week I didn't swim at all, but plan to hit all three this week.
Got in my 26miles of running this week, but my paces are dropping with the heat and volume increase. I find hitting TRP much more difficult than earlier in the year. I do tend to shoot for the upper 120s lower 130s hr as that is where I find myself on z2 long rides and will be my goal for the IMMOO.
Here is my ride from yesterday. I ran 40 minutes before. I became quite tired the last 10 miles and started having heat spots on my toes. Overall, happy with the outcome. My stages powermeter has been acting up as it got wet, but it seemed to be working yesterday. When it goes out it forces me to watch my hr and think about effort and cadence.
https://www.strava.com/activities/643306606 Any feedback welcome. I stopped for an hour at Whitehall to visit someone who has parkinson's and is no longer able to ride as he once did. He is an icon in the Coulee Region as far as encouraging bicycling. It is sad to see him struggling.
Finally, I have a question. My son honored me by asking me to join him in a Half marathon race in Madison on Saturday August20th. That is three weeks before the big race. He had been the top runner in HS cross country, but has put on a lot of weight in college and hasn't been running at all. He has picked up his desire again, been losing weight and says he wants to run it at a 9 minute pace which is around my TRP. I'm just not sure how to work with this in my plan, but want to do it because he hasn't wanted to run with me in the past.
That is week 17 and it has me doing a 3 hour run on Thursday. 90 minute swim Friday, 300 min bike saturday with 40 minutes running, and a 210 min Bike Sunday. The following week is the race rehearsal biggie.
It seems like that is the only week that i have a really long run scheduled (18 miles), I don't see any other weeks with that much mileage. Do you have some ideas? I will be in madison, so I could ride the loops after the morning race that saturday before going home. Thanks for any advice.
Great to hear from you. I am not surprised about the motivation thing...you have been drilling it for some time. I strongly strongly suggest you start taking a Monday or Friday off in the plan. The value of that rest (and resulting race performance) seriously outweighs any training in your depleted state.
In this heat, don't worry about pace...run the HR and the pace will solve itself. Even 10% too hard for a 45' run will have subsequent consequences. Running slower doesn't mean you are working less, it's just that your body can't handle the workout + the conditions.
You long bike looked good, but a bit too peppy at the start. Ideally you build that effort all day so HR goes up, and watts don't drop. You didn't do poorly, the HR was consistent...just lower.
Running with your son sounds EPIC. A must do. Week 18 is last chance at bike volume...so I say that you plan on some flavor of the following:
Mon - As planned. Tue - Wednesday bike / run here. Wed - Tuesday swim run here. Thu - ABP ride here....somewhere between 1-2hours as you can. Fri - As planned. Sat - Run with your son...and post race breakfast too. Just enjoy that and let it soak in. So cool. Sun - Ok, enough of the wishy washy stuff!!! Do your Saturday long ride here....I think it's pretty long...plan on Monday being swim only as you recover!!
Thanks Patrick: So, you don't think I need to get in 18 miles that Saturday (pre-run or evening run to get the miles in) or lengthen the previous week's 2 hour run a little to get it longer than 13 miles? My Schedule has me doing RR Run for 3 hours or 18 miles. Otherwise, I will never run more than 13 miles. Trust me, I'm happy not getting in an 18 mile run.
One more thing: Staying cool: I have been using LG arm coolers on the bike and like them. Do you swim with them under the wetsuit? Also, Do you know where I can get one of those racing bags online that you have been promoting for staying cool on runs. I figure I would keep the arm coolers on for the run and shove ice and water down them. But, I haven't tried a racing bag for ice before. Being 190lbs, the heat really gets to me when I run.
Stephan, let's have you do a "pre race warm up" of a few miles...then you can run with your son and enjoy the afterwards. I'd like you to get in close to 18 if possible, even if it's broken up a bit!
I keep the arm coolers in T1, rolled up (put them on the day before, roll them down into doughnut shape, put in bag). Then pull them over your wrists and roll them up safely as you ride!
You can get your bag online here: www.mile18inc.com -- note use the code TEAMEN to save on the purchase of two bags. They are awesome, esp for us big folks.
Coach here is my post from the forums, I would like your input on my swimming dilemma and motivation. Also, I'm confused about the advice these days for the run off the bike. Last year I did not follow the +30sec pace advice and followed average HR for the last 90 minutes of the bike. Is this still what you recommend. I like it better. Here are additional links to my bike/run brick on Sunday. It was hot and in the afternoon, I think similar to normal IMWI conditions. Thanks for any input. I need some coach mojo for my swim.
Hello All, thought I would check in. Sorry I won't' be joining you in Madison. I would really love to go and check out the new hill and meet some of you. I've had a mixed time of training.
The good, Starting to feel my grove on the bike and getting some good brick runs in. Getting a new power meter (Garmin Vector) and a new chain on my bike has made a great difference. Don't forget about bike maintenance with all the miles. Easy to wear out those chains and cassettes. I'm lucky because my backyard is Wisconsin hills and this time of year is great here. Here is my Saturday long ride minus a couple miles when my computer battery died. Felt good during the ride. I am noticing though that I've either lost fitness or the new power meter is not as generous as the stages was. I don't think my FTP is anywhere near 279 any longer. I'm guessing it is more like 250 based on what I can sustain over the 5 hours. Will think about testing tomorrow.
Sunday, I did some hill repeats on a tough hill that is about 1 mile long and 8% avg grade to begin preparing for the Barflow hill. Not sure what the official name of that new hill is. Had a good brick run afterwards.
My long run on Thursday went well. Finished the week with 33 miles, the most I have run so far in a week this year.
Swimming is where I'm nervous and would welcome input. I've been getting in one swim a week consistently. I'm able to complete the 4000 plus swims at my average goal race pace no problem. However, I have rotator cuff pain that will not go away. When it comes to trying to get two more swims in each week, I don't have the desire to do it and end up dropping those swims. How much damage am I doing to myself if I only get in one long swim a week? I'm worried about being more tired at the start of the swim, but I also don't want to hurt my shoulder.
I am sorry if there is some conflicting words on the site about pacing. You absolutely want to follow the bike avg heart rate into the early six miles of the run. It's the way to avoid accumulating too much heat.
As for your swim is there a certain number of days apart you need to swim. Like you to do Monday & Friday. In other words, if Monday to Monday is okay I'm wondering if Monday/Friday/Wednesday/Monday/Friday would work. Then again, it's just about setting expectations for the race. So much more of the day is on the bike and the run that if your shoulder's not prepared to handle it I'm not really ready for the cost.
It is worth noting that typically rotator cuff issues are associated with a lack of rotation or some technique issue. Maybe that's worth getting checked out at some point in the future?
Comments
So HR lower on bike b/c fatigued and you can't do the work to get the numbers up. HR higher on the run b/c you are stiff, tired and inefficient....probably a bit dehydrated too...so expected again.
But, the good news is you have a great nutrition plan, clearly solid fitness too....two very big wins!!!
I think you are right, the 130-132 range is great...of course, heat can push that up slightly, but anything higher than 4-6 beats than normal should be a red flag for you.
x2 to the back up salt pills just in case!
HI Coach, I copied a thread that I shared with my IMLOU folk. It is a picture of my performance manage last year to today. It shows my build up to IMWI and to now. Did know if you could read these and tell me anything. My
So, I did my first insert of a picture. Sorry it is so big. Took me forever to figure out how to do it. It does seem that my chronic training load is much higher than last year. I have been averaging about 16-17 hrs the last 4-5 weeks, and before that I was averaging closer to 10 hr weeks.. My swimming is usually the first thing to go, and I clipped a couple of shorter runs last week because of the two two big ones of 14 and 15 miles in one week, Monday and Thursday. That left me with only 31 miles rather than the 40 plus assigned last week.
Update from this weekend and today:
Saturday I hit a solid 90 miles doing the loops and a little extra on the IMWI course. It was really cold and a little windy. The next day, day of the race, it was warmer and less windy. Perfect day. I put in about 70 miles and stopped several times to cheer on and watch the bicyclists go up Midtown, down Garfield, through Mt Horeb, and across messerschmidt (spelling). I had a blast and climbed several new hills. The roads off the course are really nice. I actually like them better than the course as there are fewer cars, and lots of steep hills. I had an all around blast. Got to see John on his fat tire bike going up Midtown. He didn't know who I was but he smiled at me. I did learn that you can make ENers upset when you shout, Race Smart at them as they are big gearing up a steep hill. OVerall I felt really good even though i was fatigued from a hard week.
My goal this week is to complete every single assigned workout. This morning I got in the notorious Monday swim that I skip a lot. Felt good.
As you noted, yes, as the fatigue sets in, frequency is your friend. I am at the point now that I forced myself to get in a bigger Monday ride just in case my week goes hell...I mean, WHEN.
I am glad your Sunday ride was fun, those are more important than you know...can't be too serious all the time!
Watch the long run this week...feel free to split it AM/Pm if you are beat....just keep the fires burning for a little...bit...longer!
Hi there, thought I would check in since we didn't get to talk at the webinar. I am in a weird space this week. I have been following the plan and find that all my workouts feel like I have no strength or mojo. I could barely hold 50 percent ftp on my bike ride, running IM Pace today for 7.7 miles felt like I was slugging along, and the "recovery swim" today was super slow, yet I felt tired. argh. I'm assuming this is just all the weeks before coming home to roost so to speak. I can't wait until I get my mojo back.
Still haven't written up a race plan yet, but I will be sticking to what I practiced with nutrition, pace, and heart rate. I have that dialed in pretty good. The only question I have is that once I have run the first hour at the average HR I had during the last 90 minutes of my ride (I'm guessing it will be between 125 and 130),, can I begin to feel ok with the heart rate going up into the 30s and closer to 40. In my last race at IM Wisconsin, it was the reverse, I started in my 140s, and ended in the mid 120s. I won't make that mistake again.
Also have to wait and see what the weather will bring.
Hello Coach,
slowly getting back into this. Changed over to Run Durability1 as you suggested and am doing week 1. Still not 100% back psychologically, but like the lower volume of this plan. Much more manageable, healing relationships at work and spending more time with family Definitely had some people at work who resented how little I attended to them in the couple months leading up to IMLOU. Getting my work mojo back as I lose my workout mojo.
Couple questions regarding adding running races to the run durability throughout the winter: 5 mile races or 5k races? I tend to like the 5 milers better since they are longer. Have several Turkey Trots, and then the YMCA winter running series for Dec, Jan, Feb. If I stick to the same distance I can see how I'm doing with VO2 that way. Just thinking about long term impact of hard 5 miles verse hard 3 miles for run durability and injury reduction for this 50 year old. I know that there isn't much intensity for run durability early on. Should I skip the races?
Here is my first long run in Run Durability.
http://tpks.ws/GbBAQI didn't want to say anything but they paid me to put you on the RDP cuz they missed you.
5 milers are okay but I wouldn't run one hard quite yet. Maybe enjoy the Turkey Trot but you can pick up the effort for the other "run series" that you mentioned...
As for how you know RDP is working..what a friggin insightful question. Can't believe I haven't included that guidance yet. First, you should see your HR drop for that same pace (so early 9 min miles are at 150....later 9 min miles are at 145, etc). If you were running by HR you'd see the pace drop a bit as well.
More importantly, running should just be second nature. Wake up, lace'm up...get to work!
On the hills, please stick with a steady HR!
Hi Coach, finished up Run Durability 9 mos out, moving to 8 mos out.
As we talked about, i ran the two turkey trots for fun with my wife and family. Ended up being @ around my TRP so it was all good.
I haven't run hard except on tuesdays with the 2 x1 mile. Mostly do those on the treadmill. I've been skipping my swims but doing everything else. Need to start picking those up again.
I have two questions:
1) The first of my monthly 5 mile YMCA race series is this coming Saturday, December 5. Should I run that hard or keep it at the TRP and just do it for fun. I could go either way. Would I just count that as my 30 minute Saturday run, or lengthen it to a long run and then do a shorter run on Sunday with the bike on Sunday? When do you want me testing my pace? Maybe OS Jan?
2) I'm still deciding on whether to do a half ironman this year or not. Do you think it makes any difference whether I do two olympics rather than an olympic followed by a half ironman, when it comes to IMWI run execution? There is the new milkman half ironman in Madison in June, as well as the Toughman Wisconsin Half that I can do . The problem is that our local race conflicts with those dates and it is an olympic distance race. That would be fun for me, but I want to do what is best for my run execution and IM race, so could forgo it to get the half iron in.
No testing until January really...just track your efforts now.
As for race day, your Race Simulations (camp week as #1 of those) are far more important....if we can nail those dates / times, then 2 x OLY is fine!!!
Hi Coach,
Running Durability 8mos out is going good. I'm hitting everything and even having fun in the process. Starting to feel more comfortable at that pace. The weather in Wisconsin has been incredible for running. No Ice or Snow, been outside most of it. My avg weekly last year was a little under 20 miles, with a couple big weeks in the 30s. This month I have been averaging about 25 miles per week. I plan to bump that up to a big week of about 35 or so by doing the 8 day straight challenge before the beginning of the Jan OS. My last swim felt decent like I was still in ok form. The bike has been definitely dropping in form and fitness. But I'm sure that will pick up once I go back to 3x a week in the OS.
Do you want me to follow the OS as written, or am I to tweak it for the run durability emphasis I am in? I got a little confused with the three year plan and then your recent changes. For example, will the 28 straight days be a part of this outseason, or do I need to put that in at some point?
I also have the second of 3, 5 mile YMCA race on Saturday, January 9th. This month you had me NOT race the December 5 mile which was fine. I would like to use that as my test run to determine VDOT. Would that be ok to swap Wednesday run with Sat. Run?
The changes in RD mean you stick with the General OS plan...we can see where you are at come FEB if we want to line up the challenge for running, for now let's see how you handle the early weeks of the OS with the added bike!
OK,, one more question. I did intermediate all last year. Should I bump it up to advanced?
Hi Coach,
I'd like to set up a phone conversation with you some time to review the Run Durability work I've been doing since November. I have been keeping the numbers in the outseason tracker for both Nov and Jan OS eventhough I didn't start OS work until Jan and stuck to the Run Durability Plans for Nov, Dec.
What I would like to know from you before we talk is what kind of data would you be interested in learning from me to help me gauge progress and have a meaningful conversation with you about my running?
I have all the data on TP, Strava, etc.... Just not sure what to do with it.
Thanks, and so far I've been sticking with advanced OS, but scale back from time to time.
I'd like to know:
+ Last weeks avg run miles per week across the year.
+ Avg weekly miles Jan 2015 vs Jan 2016.
+ Your IM race pace vs the run pace you are doing now (and Avg HR for both).
Also just your anecdotal feedback on how things are going!
Looking forward to it!
P
Hi Coach, thought I would check in. I copied in a post I made on the OS run thread for wk 10. I've been having really solid running weeks overall, but this week things went south, and I backed off big time. Hope to pick it up next week.
From the post:
"I've also backed way off on my running this week. I don't think I can call it slacking but it feels that way emotionally. I've been sticking to the RD plan since November never skipping a run workout. The past months I've built up to @30 avg week volume. Last year I was around 21 avg. Up until this week, i had been feeling strong and motivated with my running. Last Sunday's long run went well with the 400s. I even had a decent 30 minute run on Tuesday at lunch and a solid output (but really challenging) on the bike that evening with the new FTP numbers.
Wednesday, I lost steam and didn't even attempt the run. I was feeling fatigued and my sleep was suffering. Thursday, I tried to go out and run for 30 minutes, and ended up run walking with my run barely in zone 1. My heart rate was super high and I was tired. Scary for me after so many solid weeks. I skipped the bike that evening and didn't run on Friday. My bike ride yesterday went really well, but I decided to skip the run and make this a recovery week. Since the bike went well, I was feeling more optimistic. I will see how today goes. I may shorten it or lower intensity if my heart rate is still high when I run. We shall see.
My guess is that my running body just needed a break this week, and the higher FTP numbers and the VO2 work last weekend took a little more out of me than I thought.
UPDATE FROM Sunday Run: https://www.strava.com/activities/516134715
Decided I was feeling good enough to do the 90 minutes at a little faster than TRP, but skipped the 400s. Feels like my running energy may be coming back. Not 100 percent but much better.
Thanks for checking in...yes to the compounding effect of fatigue; consistent work is also tiring, so I am glad that you backed off such that you were able to recover. That is ALWAYS the best course of action every time. We need to make sure you are back to 100% before you try to do that...upside is the new numbers, proof positive that your hard work is paying off.
So the formula is hard work.....new levels / training zones...watch fatigue/rest if needed...resume hard work...repeat...repeat...
Ps nice workout!
Hi Coach, starting the get faster and wondered if I need to modify it at all to keep the run durability going or just stick to the 4x a week running in the plan. I petered out a little at the end of the OS, but kept the run volume up for the most part. Don't want to lose the gains.
If you don't see the benefits of speed, or are worried about injury, then let's stick the RD plan.
Let me know if you choose Door #2 and I can help navigate that space for you!
Hi Coach,
Wanted to check in. Been struggling with motivation, but have been hitting most of my targets with a few exceptions. Work has been extra demanding lately and I have had to give more time there (i.e hard to sneak away at lunch for runs, plus stress has been playing a factor).
Last weekend tested my swim at Big Swell 2.4 wetsuit near madison. https://www.strava.com/activities/635436976 I was happy with a time of 1:12:00. That is around the time I have completed all of my IMs. I have done that with very little swimming. My rotator cuff has been really sour the last months and swimming is possible but it leaves my shoulder feeling more sore. My doctor says I haven't injured it seriously like in a tear but my muscles around the shoulder have atrophied. Last week I didn't swim at all, but plan to hit all three this week.
Got in my 26miles of running this week, but my paces are dropping with the heat and volume increase. I find hitting TRP much more difficult than earlier in the year. I do tend to shoot for the upper 120s lower 130s hr as that is where I find myself on z2 long rides and will be my goal for the IMMOO.
Here is my ride from yesterday. I ran 40 minutes before. I became quite tired the last 10 miles and started having heat spots on my toes. Overall, happy with the outcome. My stages powermeter has been acting up as it got wet, but it seemed to be working yesterday. When it goes out it forces me to watch my hr and think about effort and cadence.
https://www.strava.com/activities/643306606 Any feedback welcome. I stopped for an hour at Whitehall to visit someone who has parkinson's and is no longer able to ride as he once did. He is an icon in the Coulee Region as far as encouraging bicycling. It is sad to see him struggling.
Finally, I have a question. My son honored me by asking me to join him in a Half marathon race in Madison on Saturday August20th. That is three weeks before the big race. He had been the top runner in HS cross country, but has put on a lot of weight in college and hasn't been running at all. He has picked up his desire again, been losing weight and says he wants to run it at a 9 minute pace which is around my TRP. I'm just not sure how to work with this in my plan, but want to do it because he hasn't wanted to run with me in the past.
That is week 17 and it has me doing a 3 hour run on Thursday. 90 minute swim Friday, 300 min bike saturday with 40 minutes running, and a 210 min Bike Sunday. The following week is the race rehearsal biggie.
It seems like that is the only week that i have a really long run scheduled (18 miles), I don't see any other weeks with that much mileage. Do you have some ideas? I will be in madison, so I could ride the loops after the morning race that saturday before going home. Thanks for any advice.
Great to hear from you. I am not surprised about the motivation thing...you have been drilling it for some time. I strongly strongly suggest you start taking a Monday or Friday off in the plan. The value of that rest (and resulting race performance) seriously outweighs any training in your depleted state.
In this heat, don't worry about pace...run the HR and the pace will solve itself. Even 10% too hard for a 45' run will have subsequent consequences. Running slower doesn't mean you are working less, it's just that your body can't handle the workout + the conditions.
You long bike looked good, but a bit too peppy at the start. Ideally you build that effort all day so HR goes up, and watts don't drop. You didn't do poorly, the HR was consistent...just lower.
Running with your son sounds EPIC. A must do. Week 18 is last chance at bike volume...so I say that you plan on some flavor of the following:
Mon - As planned.
Tue - Wednesday bike / run here.
Wed - Tuesday swim run here.
Thu - ABP ride here....somewhere between 1-2hours as you can.
Fri - As planned.
Sat - Run with your son...and post race breakfast too. Just enjoy that and let it soak in. So cool.
Sun - Ok, enough of the wishy washy stuff!!! Do your Saturday long ride here....I think it's pretty long...plan on Monday being swim only as you recover!!
One more thing: Staying cool: I have been using LG arm coolers on the bike and like them. Do you swim with them under the wetsuit? Also, Do you know where I can get one of those racing bags online that you have been promoting for staying cool on runs. I figure I would keep the arm coolers on for the run and shove ice and water down them. But, I haven't tried a racing bag for ice before. Being 190lbs, the heat really gets to me when I run.
I keep the arm coolers in T1, rolled up (put them on the day before, roll them down into doughnut shape, put in bag). Then pull them over your wrists and roll them up safely as you ride!
You can get your bag online here: www.mile18inc.com -- note use the code TEAMEN to save on the purchase of two bags. They are awesome, esp for us big folks.
Coach here is my post from the forums, I would like your input on my swimming dilemma and motivation. Also, I'm confused about the advice these days for the run off the bike. Last year I did not follow the +30sec pace advice and followed average HR for the last 90 minutes of the bike. Is this still what you recommend. I like it better. Here are additional links to my bike/run brick on Sunday. It was hot and in the afternoon, I think similar to normal IMWI conditions. Thanks for any input. I need some coach mojo for my swim.
http://tpks.ws/XczAj bike
http://tpks.ws/S9iSm run
Hello All, thought I would check in. Sorry I won't' be joining you in Madison. I would really love to go and check out the new hill and meet some of you. I've had a mixed time of training.
The good, Starting to feel my grove on the bike and getting some good brick runs in. Getting a new power meter (Garmin Vector) and a new chain on my bike has made a great difference. Don't forget about bike maintenance with all the miles. Easy to wear out those chains and cassettes. I'm lucky because my backyard is Wisconsin hills and this time of year is great here. Here is my Saturday long ride minus a couple miles when my computer battery died. Felt good during the ride. I am noticing though that I've either lost fitness or the new power meter is not as generous as the stages was. I don't think my FTP is anywhere near 279 any longer. I'm guessing it is more like 250 based on what I can sustain over the 5 hours. Will think about testing tomorrow.
Satruday long ride, http://tpks.ws/bX9a9
Sunday, I did some hill repeats on a tough hill that is about 1 mile long and 8% avg grade to begin preparing for the Barflow hill. Not sure what the official name of that new hill is. Had a good brick run afterwards.
My long run on Thursday went well. Finished the week with 33 miles, the most I have run so far in a week this year.
Swimming is where I'm nervous and would welcome input. I've been getting in one swim a week consistently. I'm able to complete the 4000 plus swims at my average goal race pace no problem. However, I have rotator cuff pain that will not go away. When it comes to trying to get two more swims in each week, I don't have the desire to do it and end up dropping those swims. How much damage am I doing to myself if I only get in one long swim a week? I'm worried about being more tired at the start of the swim, but I also don't want to hurt my shoulder.
I am sorry if there is some conflicting words on the site about pacing. You absolutely want to follow the bike avg heart rate into the early six miles of the run. It's the way to avoid accumulating too much heat.
As for your swim is there a certain number of days apart you need to swim. Like you to do Monday & Friday. In other words, if Monday to Monday is okay I'm wondering if Monday/Friday/Wednesday/Monday/Friday would work. Then again, it's just about setting expectations for the race. So much more of the day is on the bike and the run that if your shoulder's not prepared to handle it I'm not really ready for the cost.
It is worth noting that typically rotator cuff issues are associated with a lack of rotation or some technique issue. Maybe that's worth getting checked out at some point in the future?
Let me know what you think!
~ Patrick