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2015 Jan OS Week 5 Run Thread

morpheusmorpheus
in General Training Discussions

Not gonna sugar coat it....buckle up!

 If you thought we were working before, you might want to sit down.  But, just for a minute.  You have work to do.

 Put your big girl and big boy panties on, get your mind right and your calves compressed 'cuz we're turning it up a notch this week.

It'll be worth it!

 

good tips on running form in the weekly podcast, check it out... Tips on Running Form

Welcome to the couple of new guys dropping into the OS.  I know of Nate and Bruce but there may be others.  Many out there are dealing with Life on Life's Terms.  Here's to all you guys who are dealing with the bigger priorities than a workout.  We are here for you, even if it's a brief distraction, break away, a method of venting or punching the stress in the face.  

 

Have a great week.  Train hard, be safe, & have some fun!

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Comments

  • Betsy KantorBetsy Kantor

    Thanks Chris-looking forward to it

  • ezellrhezellrh
    4 and some change done and dusted after work. Crisp air was just the right temps for a long sleeve shirt and shorts. Got to watch the neighborhood wind down for the evening.

    Good luck everyone!
  • Daniel HuhnDaniel Huhn
    Had to flip things around this week due to work and did Wednesday's run today. I actually found myself increasing the speed on the treadmill on the mile intervals to faster than the specified pace. Yeh!! Work works!!
  • morpheusmorpheus
    within an hour after the FTP work on the bike.

    treadmill, 1.5%
    30' zn1 -5sec, then 5x strides.

    Legs were a bit fatigued 15' in but nothing too bad. The strides ALWAYS seem to wake my legs up. They seem to be very important for me if I'm to have a decent run on Wednesdays or Sundays.

  • MattAaronsonMattAaronson
    Really rough run tonight. After not running at all yesterday and doing only a 60' ride I thought I'd be able to hit today's LT workout hard. As is now typical, my route was 1.28-mile circuits of the mall parking lot across the street from my hotel. The short story is that I was targeting 4x 1.5mi @ LT pace (6:10-6:15/mi) with half-mile recovery jogs. I went out too hard on the second interval and had to bail after a half-mile, take 15 sec inactive recovery followed by a quarter-mile recovery jog before finishing out the interval. Somehow I re-set my head to allow myself to take it a lot easier on the next 2 intervals and nailed them both although was hurting pretty bad by the end. Very tough workout and a lot tougher than I expected it or wanted it to be.

    Overall 11 mi @ 6:38/mi avg

    Warmup 1.5mi @ 7:04
    4x1.5mi (0.5mi): 6:06, FAIL, 6:07, 6:10
    (the FAIL was 0.5mi@6:03, 15 sec rest, 0.25mi@6:51, then 0.75@6:05)
    Cooldown 1.5mi @ 6:52

    http://connect.garmin.com/activity/689476791
  • Gordon CherwoniakGordon Cherwoniak

    I'm like a drone, just another 25'. 

  • Betsy KantorBetsy Kantor
    No time for the run this am so had to do it this PM after work. It didn't feel too bad. 4mi/40 '- z1.5 pace with 4x 20"@ z5
  • jalesliejaleslie

    EZ brick run done after the bike.  Felt great....over-ran Z1 the whole time, just running easy and not pushing.  

    http://home.trainingpeaks.com/athlete/workout/RKZ5PVCS2TL44PSTJAHHGAXBMM

  • ezellrhezellrh
    There are few things I hate worse than running on the treadmill. However, insane wind and time constraints pushed me inside today. So, minimal work done. 5 miles total with 3 slightly hot of target TP.

    Good luck everyone!
  • morpheusmorpheus
    Roy- I'm with ya on the wind thing. Around here, the weather starts breaking in March and April. Yet, there is still a strong/cold wind practically every day. Makes me very glad I've adapted to being an indoor lab rat.
  • Betsy KantorBetsy Kantor
    Roy and Chris, I'm with you guys. I would rather run in rain and/or cold than wind.

    Having said that, I ran in a windless 50 degree full moon sky this morning. Somehow the time got away from me, however, and I only had time for two z4 miles. I would like to say that I will make up that 3rd mile tonight. But, I am second call and will probably get stuck in the OR very late.
  • Brian KellyBrian Kelly

    Cadence Confusion -

    I have been trying to up my run cadence from 82 to 90.  Before JOS I was running outside and increased cadence to 86 by adding a few beats per week. Also as per Coach P, at the end of each run I do 6 x 30 strides to help with the higher cadence.

    Now that I am treadmill bound, i have been increasing the MPH each week by 0.2 mph per week for each zone.  However what I have noticed is that while I am running faster my cadence remains the same. What's more, to get to 90 bpm I really have to crank the MPH up.

    The logical and absurd conclusion of this strategy is that come race day I will be sprinting!

    I can sustain 90 bpm at a lower speed but it feels like I am taking very small steps...so the question is are the smaller quicker strides better? or should I focus on speed?

    Thanks for your thoughts!

     

    PS I will drop this in the micro thread to see what Coach P has to say about it.

     

     

     

     

  • Larry PfefferLarry Pfeffer
    Wednesday run done. Did the 3 1 mile @z4 MS. Little time after so it was MS only for me.
  • morpheusmorpheus
    Wed Run went well.

    treadmill, 1.5%

    1.5mi warmup with increasing paces and some strides
    MS: 2x 1.5mi (3') @ TP 7:24 & 7:18
    then 3x 1mi (1') @ zn2 8:00
    brief cooldown.

    legs felt quick & light today.

    Hit the sauna immediately after and put the legs up high for 10'.

    Followed that with swim drills in some cold water.

    Have done this a couple of times when time allows. The combo seems to washout & recharge.

    Y'all knock it out!
  • Travis BearTravis Bear
    Wednesday's run was ok. It was not raining when I started but started pouring a mile in Pacific North West style.

    WU:2 mile @ 8:00 per

    Z4: 1.5 mile @ 7:10 per mile

    Z4: 1.5 mile @7:18 per mile. (About 10 pounds extra rain weight)

    CD:2 mile

    I'm starting to feel a little faster and stronger.
  • Phil MillsPhil Mills
    Late post on yesterday's easy 30', Z1 run. Nothing remarkable, just got it done.

    4 am trip the ER, for my daughter knocked out this morning' run. All is now well and I may be able to get it in this afternoon.
  • David HowardDavid Howard

    @Brian RE: Treadmill pacecount

    Your stride length vs pace etc on treadmill will not reflect outdoors running well. Last OS was the first time I did 90% of runs on treadmill and was really thrown off trying to make form changes.

    These variations are why I could get the Garmin(footpod) to track accurately (set stride length etc) only at a set grade and speed. I eventually calibrated it to 1.5% and my Z4 pace in MPH. [also used same TM every time as there was variation between machines]. 

    ....The Speedwork on the TM WILL improve your neuromuscular efficiencies and leg speed/turnover but the #s such as cadence and running dynamics aren't trustworthy for "real road" comparison. My 910+ FP and 920 will show cadence and will calculate a stride length factor. The 920 adds all sorts of running dynamics as well....but a simple footpod or watch that calculates cadence should show you the data you want on such as Garmin Connect. You should ignore the first mile or so then look at your cadence over flat ground once warmed up and going at a Z3/4 pace....that should be your baseline to improve on. Note changes at slower/faster speeds, note variability notice if your cadence changes as you tire and go up/down grades.

    Just as a added note....I've really been focusing now on my arm swing ...emphasizing the pump BACK to add speed/power to legs with surprising results -especially late in intervals when tiring....... and over last year shortening/quickening stride consciously when tiring especially 8+miles out in long runs (actual cadence recorded shows minimal change from baseline-unfatigued/goal cadence and actually -now-feels energizing vs. degenerating into long and floppy stride)

  • David HowardDavid Howard

    @Brian....yep some more image

    This may be in another thread/warrant another thread....but there is some argument as to the benefits of running cadences above 86-88. More turnover isn't without its drawbacks as well. The idea of high cadence = faster + more efficient  presumes a consistent stride length and no compensating inefficiencies (such as increased vertical osculation -up/down motion). In the 80s we where taught to run with long loping running strides with long ground contact time (because the Kenyon runners had such long strides)....but now we know that they also had a quick leg turn over, and now its all about reducing ground contact time-to a point- spinning your legs at 90+steps per second but at a reduced stride length requires wasted energy and results in no greater speed. These comments are controversial to say the least and even the high cadence proponents frequently disagree.... I've reduced knee issues SIGNIFICANTLY by changing my running to "as if I was running barefoot on hot asphalt" long before the minimalist/barefoot movement....but doing so increased my cadence to 80s "accidentally". Trying to adopt some of the Poise method (and others) I've come up to about 86-88 as my natural cadence at GRP. Faster cadence w/o coming up onto "sprinters toes" actually leads to slowing and higher HR...going to a pure forefoot running is unsustainable -for me. I no longer require motion control shoes and am a decidedly midfoot guy now but not enough to go with classic Newtons. If you are a forefoot runner you may find 88-90s "OK" but don't feel like something is wrong if 86-88 is your efficiency sweet spot.....for cadence  image.

  • MattAaronsonMattAaronson

    Posted By David Howard on 04 Feb 2015 02:11 PM

    Just as a added note....I've really been focusing now on my arm swing ...emphasizing the pump BACK to add speed/power to legs with surprising results -

     

    Totally agree with this approach. I did a bit of work with a running coach recently and he open my eyes to this.

  • Stephanie HartmannStephanie Hartmann

    apples and oranges, don't worry about it. one has almost nothing to do with the other.

  • David HowardDavid Howard

    LOL I just read what I posted  ...90+per second... that would be too fast!  image    actually I was in my head thinking ...cadences >190 not >90 (depending on your count. 

    See my run today  ....I have a high cadence ~180  or "90" and did play with my fwd lean which realy adds to my cadence at speeds >8:00/ml  I as yet do not know if this really is "better" vs adding trail leg focus and keeping rates around 180.....trial and tracking is in order!  But again....don't trust treadmill #s.

    http://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/690099162

    Yep ....I over pushed ,,,,Z4 VDOT is 8:10.... but it was sunny and so nice out -no shirt even!   and I'll be tapering for the 24hr MTB race next week so I'll recover then.

  • jimmy augustinejimmy augustine
    6.4mi in 54min and change. Got 3x1 at z4 and a mile at z2. Really nice run. Running a little quicker across all distances vs feb of 2014. Good stuff.
  • Gordon CherwoniakGordon Cherwoniak
    Just plugging along 25', wishing I could get more in but the foot is just holding its own.
  • Brian KellyBrian Kelly

    @David

    Thanks for the reply and advice.  I guess I will just have to wait to get outside before I really know what my steps are.

     

  • MattAaronsonMattAaronson
    Major Garmin fail tonight. I went out for the second consecutive day of hard workouts, planning 9 mi with 6 mi @HMP targeting 6:20-6:25/mi. Despite not feeling great during yesterday's LT workout the run tonight started really well. I was ~4mi into the 6mi of HMP running with pace ~6:15/mi when I hit the lap button and got a total 100% Garmin freeze. Bummer!! Being the geek that I am, I immediately terminated the workout and jogged a quarter mile back to my hotel. I managed to reset the watch and surprisingly some data was salvageable...the watch recorded the total time and distance and all but the last lap. Oh well. I feel like I got a good workout in any case and tomorrow instead of doing 5 easy I'll do 9 to make up the total mileage.

    Overall 5.34mi @ 6:31/mi avg.

    http://connect.garmin.com/activity/690177223
  • AnnSloanAnnSloan
    posted accidentally on week 4 -

    my calves were awesome....today.
    my splits were great - 9:16,9:13,9:13
    wore my foot pod and liked my cadence....97 per foot. wow..never would have guessed that for my fast. was lower for my easier paces.

  • Phil MillsPhil Mills
    Managed to squeeze my run in this evening at the Y track. Work meeting ran late so I now had 30 minutes to complete a 45 min run. Yikes! Wasn't sure how my run would fare on only 4 hours of sleep, but it turned out to be a great run, possibly the best this OS. The first of the 2x.5 mile went smooth, so I stretched it to 1 mi. Jogged the shortened rest periods. All told, got the MS done in 37 minutes.

    1 mi WU
    1x3(2')@Z4 - 7:39, 7:43 & 7:39 Goal 7:42
  • ezellrhezellrh
    4.5 miles @ EP done and dusted after work. Wind was screaming so it was fun.

    Keep at it everyone!
  • morpheusmorpheus
    "Wind was screaming so it was fun." Said no one ever.....except Roy.
  • MattAaronsonMattAaronson
    After last night's Garmin technology-fail caused me to truncate my run to 2/3 the MS and just over half the 9-mi mileage target, I decided to do this morning's run longer and higher intensity. It was REALLY mentally tough given a strong wind and the third consecutive run doing 1.28-mile laps of the mall parking lot across the street from my hotel, but I buckled down and got it done. My target was not to target a particular pace but rather target each of the 7 laps to be faster than the lap before it, i.e. a progression run but without specific targets. I started with a warmup-pace then settled into an RPE consistent with MP. I didn't concentrate on pushing harder on each of the first 5 laps because as I got into the running groove I naturally speeded up a few sec/mi each lap. Then on the second last I put a bit of effort into it and on the last lap I kept the same effort and really focused on my running form. On uploading I now see my last 2 laps were strong indeed and in fact within a few sec of target HMP 6:20-2:25/mi. And it didn't feel brutally hard like a tough HMP workout so that is really encouraging. Good run but, very mentally tough to convince myself to do all 7 laps of the parking lot!!

    Overall 9.0mi @ 6:42/mi avg. Done as 7 laps of a 1.28-mi "course" (mall parking lot perimeter):

    Lap 1: 7:04/mi
    Lap 2: 6:51/mi
    Lap 3: 6:43/mi
    Lap 4: 6:41/mi
    Lap 5: 6:36/mi
    Lap 6: 6:28/mi
    Lap 7: 6:26/mi

    http://connect.garmin.com/activity/690499148
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