Going Primal and Can't Go Back?
I recently purchased the Primal Blueprint from Mark Sisson (Amazon here) and have been following the eating habits. For the first time I have really started to notice how making quality choices about the food I eat really affects me throughout the day. I enjoyed a great five day run of eating, and then hit my usual binge meal on Saturday. Being a kids party, I had waaaaay too many pieces of tootsie roll candy (wtf is that stuff anyway), and was all set to go back to being good today when....I woke up feeling ill. Totally ill. Like I had poisoned myself. It's been 18 hours and i am kind of getting over it, but am wondering, are my new eating habits really affecting how my body handles this processed food?
I don't eat a lot of red meat, for example, sticking to fish and chicken and pork...so when do have a burger (read: hang out with rich) my digestive system has trouble. Can the same be said for this other crap?
Thanks!
P
Comments
Yes, that is happening to me more and more. I don't know what changed in my body--but the healthier I eat over time, the worst I feel after eating junk foods--and these days it's refined sugar, especially . I cannot handle it, and like you say, it literally makes me sick. I feel as if my body is totally rejecting those foods. This whole experience has gone into overdrive since the hypothyroid diagnosis. Now breads, pastas (and I only eat whole grain) are also only tolerated in small amounts. Fruits, veggies, clean proteins are what sit well. The junk makes me feel so bad, I now readily stay away from them--don't even want it. But when I do get the urge and give in, ugh, it's just not worth it.
What I have done to satisfy the urge to have a treat is to go the smoothie route to create all kinds of lo-cal "soft serve" ice creams with frozen fruit, protein powder, and a choice of almond milk, whole grain drink from TJs, coconut water or a combo. Flavors like chocolate banana, cherry vanilla, very berry strawberry, etc. I make it thick and eat it with a spoon. A treat with no ill-feeling fallout.
I also notice a difference eating something like a hamburger from Stop & Shop at a party, as opposed to the meat we've get from the CSA. The CSA meat sits much better. For years, I have/will not touch anything treated with antibiotics, hormones, et al, if I can help it. I swear if I eat any meat from a big box store, that does not sit well either. (My CSA, Chestnut Farms, drops in Arlington Center, FYI, if you're ever interested in joining.)
I believe that's true. When I slowly transitioned from herbivore to onmnivore, I had to be very careful about what meat I ate, and how much of it.
After eating fairly healthily for the past year or so, I definitely can't eat sweets in nearly the quantity. I used to love mashed potatoes with lots of butter. Now? Can I please have baked sweet potato fries with a little thyme and olive oil?
Wow,Patrick, something similar happened to me Friday evening. Have been eating very well with lots fruits and veggies. Friday after my swim, stopped in whole foods, picked up some pasta & cheese ( WF version of MAC & cheese) and some BBQ pork- why? who knows, i was hungry, getting late and had nothing prepared at home. Ate it- then when I went to bed, really thought was going to get sick, couldn't sleep. Had to work yesterday, just felt lousy. Thanks God it wasn't that busy, after all OR cases were done, they let me go home early. I came home and crashed. Lesson learned.
Will pick up that book, been meaning to. Thnaks for sharing
Linda- What is CSA?
I dunno about sweets and other crap, I eat really healthy, but I haven't become such a purist that a small bit of bday cake on occasion won't upset my system. I do know that sugar or fat in any great quantity is going to do unpleasant things to my body. But as long as I maintain an "in moderation" approach I'm OK.
its also interesting in that I grew up eating lots of american sweets.. but since I got married to a japanese woman I mostly have eaten japanese sweets these past 6 years and now i feel american sweets are too sweet... I can't eat them or if I do its very little. Its interesting because I think we develop an immunity to the effect of food.. similar to alcohol, in that the more we eat it the more we need of it, or the less we notice it so we take in more..
The other piece I think is fat consumption. Fat really slows gastric emptying. So if you've been eating alot of plant matter and little fat, then a big greasy cheeseburger is going to feel like it's sitting in your stomach for a long time.
I'm interested in what Penny has to say about this too...
CSA is "Community Supported Agriculture." You get your food food directly from the farmers who produce it. It started with local farmers and veggies. The meat CSA operates on a similar community based principle, offering a number of shares each six month cycle based on the number of animals they have. The shares are distributed once a month at pre-arranged locations.
A few reasons why I buy my meat from the CSA:
The risks:
We're one family doing one small bit to get out of the circus that is our nation's unhealthy food system. It's one small thing we can do. Although when I pick up my meat each month, there are hundreds of other people there doing the same.
After ToC, I'm looking to go VERY primal, with a few allowed binges (Primal Blueprint allows 80% on, 20% off). We'll see how my GI tract handles it. I've never been really tolerant to red meat; let's just say it works its way thru my system very fast and somewhat-violently.
My ex-gf started going paleo/primal near the end of our relationship, and our last few dates she couldn't stomach a lot of anything food-wise. Ex, Chipotle restaurant chicken meals had too much sodium, etc.
Last fall when I started that lean protein and veggie diet (no carbs, but season was over and I wasn't doing much of anything), I had cravings for 3 days bad, then on and off for 2 weeks, then none. I was raised on candy. That was very hard for me. Fruit became a HUGE treat.
Fast forward to about midway through OS. The workouts were getting longer and I knew I needed to add more carbs . OK, it was coming up on Easter, so I started with jelly beans. Since I had very few at a time, I was OK. But that one day I ate more than a few- UGH! I have since cut back on candy to almost nothing (gotta have a piece of chocolate every day for the heart health
 
. It has been real trial and error to figure out what I can tolerate.
One small piece of cake at a shower/ whole grain bread (2 small slices)/ sweet potato muffins- No problem.
A medium plate of risotto with peas/ breadsticks- not bad
Not sure if it is because I am not overdoing it, or sticking to healthy choices- but so far, it's OK.
But tootsie rolls are one of those candies that I can't stop until they are gone- so I never start.
I don't eat red meat. I do eat chicken and fish, but I eat a lot of squash and eggplant these days. Lots of EVOO for cooking.
The body definitely adjusts. At first the WTF reaction is your brain screaming for the old comfort food. But the later on WTF is the rest of the body wanting to know why you are sabotaging things.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=carbs-against-cardio
Kinda reinforces the Primal stance - NO processed carbs.
I have been the same weight (+/- 2 lbs) since Dec 2007. I weigh less today than I did when I graduated college in...well...a few years ago. My cholesterol is off the charts good, as is my triglycerides etc etc etc. My BF has been about 5-7% for all that time as well. I love my veggies and fruit, and yep, love my cow, chicken pig lamb fish and everything else! The book "The Paleo Diet" and the corollary "The Paleo Diet for Athletes" made a lot of sense when I read it. Haven't looked back since then.
Thanks for this!
Hi All:
After reading this thread, I am inspired. I have ordered the book. Instead of hijacking this thread, I have started this one asking questions about how to incorporate into EN training and any tips and tricks for the FNG (Frigging New Guy) on the diet. If I can get some feedback, I would appreciate it.
John
James,
I read the Paleo Diet for Athletes and was too inspired but have trouble getting the lean free range meat and poultry that they recommend. Do you have free range meat available or have you substituted?
George
George - I would suggest finding the biggest farmers' market you can and see what they have. My family buys bulk pork, lamb, and beef that's organic, pasture raised, and super tasty. We've found all three of the farmers at various farmers' markets. It's often cheaper to buy in bulk, so talk to the farmer and see if they have deals on whole animals (or half/quarter for a cow). If you are worried about eating it all, find a friend or two and split it up. We bought a second freezer to store our own...very handy to have a freezer full of healthy meat (if that's your thing). Example - Sunday we didn't have anything planned for dinner, so I thawed a pound of ground beef, pound of ground lamb, mixed it with some garlic, feta, rosemary, and fresh oregano (from the garden!!) made it into burgers, topped it with some simple tzatiki (cucumber, yogurt, salt, and pepper), and had a great main course.
As for the rest of this thread, I'm definitely a dedicated omnivore, but slowly improving my eating choices. I was a vegetarian for a long time in my 20s, and I definitely had the CoachP experience. If I ate hamburger or steak I felt really sick. Think I'll read the book too.
Be careful of extrapolating data that talk about things like avoiding weight gain, heart disease, and diabetes to what is good for endurance training and performance.
Undoubtedly, evidence is accumulating against high glycemic index and glycemic load diets in those health-related areas.
If you've never read Omnivore's Dilemma, I'd highly recommend it. It's an incredibly interesting walk through the various food chains in America- from big business, to organic, to local. Definitely got me started on the paleo-type diet. He's a pretty big proponent of eating locally raised and grown foods.
I heart The Omnivore's Dilemma (OD). By the time you get through Chapter 4, I challenge anyone to say it hasn't changed them in some way--and for the better. Don't have time to read it? Get it out on CD from the library and listen in your car. Rather watch a movie? Watch Fast Food Nation. Not as good or thorough as OD, but the movie opens your eyes--and both open your brain. Before going Paleo-this and Primal-that, figure out where your food comes from, how manipulated we all are, how to make better choices, THEN refine the intake. IMO.
If you are having trouble with free-range meat, I've found that eating buffalo (aka Bison) is a great way to make sure you get "healthy" red meat. It won't eat corn - a Bison really doesn't like to be told what to do. It's a really lean meat, and other than it not having gobs of fat everywhere it doesn't taste that different from other red meat. I have a bison farm not far from me but before I decided to go out, get a freezer and buy half a buffalo, I stopped by the butcher at my grocery store.
Surprise! They actually sell the stuff at the counter - it's not out in the case but they have it available. I thought that was weird, but I'm just happy they have it available.
So check with your butcher the next time you are shopping. It's worth it.
Linda: I totally agree. It's frightening how our food supply has changed since we were kids. I just read In Defense of Food (same author as O. DIlema). I liked it better that OD because he lays out a decent case how almost ANY diet is better than the "traditional" American one - so pick one and go with it. Eat a lot of greens, some meat (if that's your thing), some nuts, and stay away from anything your grandma wouldn't recognize as food.
I happen to be more primal myself, while my wife loves real whole grains (not what passes for it in processed food). She's gotten in awesome shape and will likely BQ in October. Since I've started primal at the begining of the year I've gained weight (boo for this sport) but lost body fat and gained good strength. As I ramp up into the Chi Marathon (and IMWI '11), I'm coming from a much better place.
Penny, I don't see that you got a response, but this is what I've summarized from what I've read. Anyone else is more than welcome to correct/add.
The premise for both seems to be meats, fruits and veggies - the more organic the better. No grains, whole or otherwise.
Paleo: No beans of any type. Allows normal carb food/calorie intake for exercise.
Primal: Don't recall their position on beans (peanuts are ok). Sweet potatoes are alright (bonus). All carbs gained through fruits and veggies. Don't recall about food/calorie intake for exercise.
They seem to be pretty similar to me, but I understand there's an acclimitization (sp?) period involved with switching your primary carb source, which can be lengthy and be quite harmful to high-intensity tri training.
A roadie I ride with, his wife switched him to primal, and he was losing weight fast (he was a bit overweight already), but he has no energy on our rides (but I haven't seen him the last few weeks, so he might have adapted better by now).
Primal just came out with a cookbook, which I ordered. Personally, I have to see recipes in text to create them, otherwise I get bored and stray (ex, I love my rice krispy treats and beer).
I'd be interested in learning the professional standpoint on it, for the EN haus, with high-intensity workouts.
I've asked my nutritionist about it, and personally I want to move MORE - but not exclusively - towards primal nutrition. Just seems to take out too much enjoyment in life for me to exclude completely.
The other difference between Primal and Paleo is their position on dairy.
Paleo - absolutely no dairy.
Primal - it's up to you / he's not sure. There's a good blog post by Mark basically saying that he doesn't know. Some people do great with dairy, others do great going without, and he feels conflicted about what to recommend.
That's one thing I've always been conflicted about as a recommendation in Paleo. The case for no dairy makes sense from the "our ancestors didn't eat it" perspective, but he doesn't really provide any supporting evidence as to why it's bad otherwise (unlike grains, which he supports with GI and blood pH arguments).
Mike
Didn't even think about dairy, because I've been very dairy-free (not 100%) for over a year now.
Penny- I have the primal Blueprint, I can send it to you when I'm done. PM your mailing address if interested.
I believe Primal is no beans as well as Paleo.
I find some of the stuff interesting, but not sure if i will fully go on board. I have cut back a lot on dairy, but I like my greek yogurt as a source of Calcium and protein, and i don't have the GI issues with it I get from Milk, I use lactaid products, but I reach a limit.
Just reading as much as I can to find right balance for me.
Ya, I sorta think the same way as Graffeo. Just because the Paleo people back in the day didn't have cheese . . . why can't I have some? Just because my dad back in the day only had a fax machine . . . does that mean I can't use email?
Is it really THAT bad for you, in moderation?
The thing that sticks out to me is that Paleo let's me plow into fruits. Eat as much as you want. Primal has you limit your carbs, including fruit. After playing with Primal and reducing carbs I completely bonked on a long bike last week. Have to play around with this a bit more.
There has to be some middle, healthy ground here. Like Tracy, and after reading A LOT, I don't think I am going to dive 100% into all this. Met with my dietician this morning and I will cut way back on certain things based on Paleo and Primal. But to eliminate things completely? Where is the fun in that? I look at it like the Atkins Diet - No pasta? No potatos? No pizza? No popcorn? I'd rather be celebate.
Great thread. Thanks.
Good luck all!
P