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Swim T Pace Conversion to Tempo Trainer

I swim tested today and my average pace is 2:14 per 100 yards.  I like to use a tempo trainer to pace my swim.  Do you know how I would convert the 2:14 to a time on the tempo trainer? 

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  • Posted By Rosanne DeTorres on 09 Feb 2015 07:45 PM


    I swim tested today and my average pace is 2:14 per 100 yards.  I like to use a tempo trainer to pace my swim.  Do you know how I would convert the 2:14 to a time on the tempo trainer? 

    Might be a silly question...but what is a tempo trainer?

  • It's a gizmo you wear in your swim cap. The idea is that you stroke every time it beeps...It's what my Total Immersion swim coach used to teach me how to swim the most efficiently (not just pace but pace with the least amount of strokes)
  • Rosanne....I'm no expert, but have a TI coach who has given me guidance on spl, although I still have trouble remembering it all.  I believe the answer to the question you raise cannot be answered without knowing your wingspan.  That's what my TI coach needed (along with my typical spl for various distances and elapsed time).  I think they (TI coaches) have some spreadsheets/calculators that can tell you what you "should" be seeing for spl for a certain pace/distance based on your height.  A 6'0" guy and a 5'0" girl can't expect to have the same spl for the same pace, etc.  Ask your TI coach for guidance if you can (I email mine from time to time with such questions).  

    This resource might help and is a strategy my coach recommended and is better than anything I can explain from what I know: 

    http://totalimmersion.net/blog/whats-the-best-tempo-for-my-stroke/

    Just experiment with what you are doing now, focusing on finding your ideal TT setting for a certain distance and goal (e.g.  My IM pace TT setting is currently around 1.30, with about 18-19spl in a 25y pool.  If I'm doing fast 100's, I'll use 1.10; and for 50fast/50easy I'll use 1.0 (and just ignore the beeps on the 50 easy).  

    In my training sets, I'll adjust the TT to quicker paces to force myself to swim faster....but it only works if my spl doesn't increase much.  At a TT setting that is too fast, I will actually swim the distance slower because my form will break down or I'll fatigue and my pull will become too weak.....this is noticeable and gives me feedback on what TT settings are realistic for me right now).

    I'd like to (over time) decrease my IM distance TT setting to 1.25...1.20...1.15...but maintain the same spl as I'm currently seeing, thus getting faster.  (stroke length is the same, but turnover is faster, and therefore I'm faster).  But, this is REALLY hard to do! 

    My TI coach emailed me some spreadsheet info with guidance for TT settings FOR ME based on my height and pace and they are spot on.  I just tweak the TT settings a little up or down depending on what the goal of the set is, etc.  

    My coach even recommended a simple exercise (which is painful and frustrating) of trying to do 10x100 at a TT setting that for me is not difficult to swim a 1:47/100 at 17spl.  I give myself about 10" of rest and then do the consecutive 100s, trying to stay at that same spl on 1:47.  If I can't do more than a few at that TT setting without increasing spl, then I'll slow the TT a little.  If I can maintain the spl but not the speed, then I'll increase the rest interval a little.  Once I can do all 10 at 1:47 without increasing spl, then I make the tempo just a little faster (like 0.03) and repeat (not that same day!) this exercise until I can do 10 in a row with 10" rest at the new TT setting.  Wash, rinse, repeat. As you do this day after day, week after week, you are gradually getting faster....by definition!  It's just like doing mile repeats or FTP sets on the bike.  It's also very similar strategy to Coach Rich's 50/50 sets (which are also painful).  It also seems very similar to what real swimmers do in training.....100's "on the 2:00" or 100's "on the 1:30", etc.   

    Not everyone is a fan of TI philosophy, and I'm not sure what to believe, as some very good coaches think spl and TT stuff is a total waste of time.  But, for me, a data geek who needs measurable reassurance, it gives me something very concrete to use to convince myself that I'm getting faster (like a powermeter or GPS watch) and forces me to focus on consistent effort.  If you know what your spl and TT settings are "supposed to be" for you for distance "xx" yard set, you can hold yourself accountable for executing that set every time and you can objectively tell when you're not either swimming efficiently or with enough effort/focus.  

    Hope that helps and sorry it turned into a short novel.  

      

     

  • http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/articles/general/articles/pre_hines_01_dps.asp

     

    http://www.swimsmooth.com/strokerate.html

    I used to have a calculation but I can't find it. The one with wingspan etc. taking into account your push-off the wall.

    image

  • TI is generally a good place/system to start, as it gives you some tools for addressing the fundamentals of swimming technique, such as body position. However, your post highlights one of the deficiencies of their philosophy, which is a dramatic over emphasis on distance per stroke. A few thoughts:

    The race doesn't care about your distance per stroke. It's about going faster. For example, I can take 18 strokes per 25yd and you can take 15. But if I'm swimming 32" 50's to your 1:10's...who cares? There is clearly A LOT more going on here other than distance per stroke.

    These are observations about stroke counts that I've made over the years, as # of strokes per 25yds:

    • >25 = you've got a lot of work to do. This is not good.
    • ~22-25 = you're getting there, still needs work
    • <20 = you're almost there</li>
    • 17-19 = you're pretty much there
    • 15-17 = if you're an adult onset swimmer I can pretty much guarantee this is an artificial number for you. That is, you've got a good bit of gliding going on because you've been told that DPS is everything...but you are likely still going slowly at your shiny low DPS.
    • <15 = you are absolutely gliding too much. Not good, at all.</li>

    As a former competitive swimmer, my DPS is probably 16 if I'm trying, 18 if I'm not, more often ~17. But it's pretty much the same regardless of my speed. That is to say I'll do 17 strokes per length for anything from 1:08 to 1:20+ 100's. What's changing is how much power I'm applying to the water, how hard I'm pulling, with each stroke. 

    Swim Golf: ^this^ is why we introduce the concept of Swim Golf in the Swim Clinic eBook. Swim Golf =

    • Your stroke count for 50yds, add to...
    • Your time in seconds for 50. 
    • For example, 23 strokes down and 24 strokes back for a 48" 50y = 47 + 48 = 95 swim golf score.

    SG is a valuable metric because it captures two elements: (1) efficiency, as measure by stroke count, but also (2) speed, as measured by seconds. Time is important because captures body position, power application, fitness, etc. 

    It's also important because, at the end of the day, that's what we're trying to do: swim faster while using the same or less energy. 

    I'm moving this to the General Discussion forum where more people will see it. 

  • I'm living proof that what Coach R says is true.  Adult-onset swimmer taught by TI in the 90's.  My family member swim coach saw me last year and said my stroke rate was too low and I was overgliding, which created dead spots in my stroke where forward momentum effectively ceased.  I was clearly a TI graduate.  I was swimming 15 strokes per 25yd length, down to 13 if I focused on the glide.  Strokes per minute were in the 40's.  All bad, according to my family member (with Coach R's reply above confirming it).  The chart that Stephanie provided a link to says I should be at least 60 SPM.  But you specifically asked about the Tempo Trainer, and here's where it helped me:

    To figure out a better stroke rate, I did a Swim Smooth Ramp Test (Google it). Or you can just mess around to figure it out. I set the TT to 45 SPM, took a stroke at every beep, saw how it felt. Lots of glide, big pulls, lots of shoulder strain. Then I tried 55, 65, 75. I was flailing above 80. Once I found a range of five paces that were comfortably fast but allowed me to fully rotate and reach (which for me was 60, 62, 64, 66 and 68 SPM), I tested them several times by swimming a 100 at each pace, recording the time and whether it felt fast-smooth without flail (yes, I had a piece of paper and a pen). Faster SPM doesn't necessarily = faster times, as you will eventually get sloppy at a higher rate and your times will slow down. There is a sweet-spot rate that's smooth, fast and allows full reach/rotation, and it may surprise you. I eventually settled on 63, a far cry from mid-40s.  It took some time and patience to carry the new pace over longer distances, but Garmin Connect shows that my average stroke rate over the last year has gone from 7s and 8s (that's one arm, so basically 15 strokes per length) to mostly 9s and a few 8s (i.e., 17-18), but my threshold time went down 5 seconds per 100 (that's 3.5 minutes in an IM, so not insignificant), the net result being that my SWOLF scores eventually came down to new lows.  Most importantly (for me), the higher rate creates a constant, rolling rhythm that prevents me from taking big, beefy pulls, which means my shoulders don't hurt like they used to.  I frequently fall back into old, bad habits and swim in the 50s SPM, so every week or so, I'll set the TT at 63 SPM just to keep me honest. 

    There are lots of ways to skin the swim cat, and the ^^ may not work for others and may not even be an advisable approach.  But it's worked for me.  And because 3.5 minutes will buy me an empty T1 tent and uncrowded roads for the first 30-40 miles in the race, I'll take it. Now I just need to find some power and foot speed. 

     

     

  • When you find that foot speed please share. TI was great for me because my stroke rate was a little high. It's all so individual. Generally speaking I needed to learn to complete my stroke. I don't really glide.  You're right about finding that sweet spot. As my fitness improves I breathe less often too and suddenly things are smoother. When things are smoother and I find some rhythm it can go well. Still rare to have a swim session where I feel that way. I swim in a 75 meter pool also. Exhausting.

  • @Mike: yep. One of the exercises I do at my local clinics is:

    • ~2-3x 50's of SWOLF after a warmup, before we start the drills. I tell them to swim these at a steady, comfortable pace
    • Then I'll tell them to do a SWOLF while swimming as fast as they can. This really drives home the fact that faster arms don't always mean faster swimming, as most of the folks will only go marginally faster but with a much higher stroke count. 

    We then do drills, drills, drills, and come back to this exercise, noting the changes. 

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