PSA: Endurance Nation and the Strava Paradox
I'm writing this post on Sunday, February 15th, during a 60-90' window between a 45' AM run and 2hr mid/late morning ride...which will demonstrate my point, as you'll see 
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I like Strava. It's fun to see a few years worth of historical data across a wide range of bike and run courses that I've been doing for years. I like to use it as a tool to improve, often glancing at what I did last week on a particular ride or run before stepping out this week for the same course. I like to compete, against myself and others, and Strava is a great tool for that.
I also enjoy the EN Strava feed on the right sidebar of the dashboard. I click through on that, check out how everyone across the country is is getting it done. And recently someone created an IM Wisconsin group on Strava so I joined that, and the members of that group including many EN members. So it's fun to check in on that IMWI group and see how Trent, Scott, Ian, Peter, Jonathan and a few others are doing towards our shared race.
But of course the primary metric that Strava uses to rank, or at least organize each of these groups is training volume. And so several inches above your name on the list is an EN athlete who's put up 12hrs this week to your 7hrs...in February...on a Team that supposed to be all about the OutSeason, low volume, high intensity workouts.
What gives?
First, I wanted to recognize that we all feel (raises hand) some small amount of pressure to put in some extra volume to improve our rankings on these lists. I have to admit that _just now_ I checked the EN leader board to see where my 2hr ride today will put me at the end of this week 
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Second, understand that we've done a lot here to empower you to become better self-coached athletes. That means identifying opportunities that are best for you to do more, less, something different than what the training plan calls for. We're all adults here and we should be capable of deciding for ourselves what is the best direction for us to take. And if you don't know or need help, we and the Team are always here to help you.
Third, it's only natural to look at numbers being put up and think (1) I'm not strong enough or (2) I'm not doing enough, or (3) I don't belong on the same team with these people. I can tell you that across 8 years and thousands of athletes having passed through this team, we've never had a single instance of one member putting down another member because they weren't "strong, fast, smart, doing enough."
The fact is that the guy who's putting up 15hrs/wk of training in February will be one of the first to offer help and encouragement to someone struggling to get 5-7hrs done. And we have many not-so-fast, only training 5-7hrs athletes who know a LOT more about endurance training than many people putting up 3x's their volume.
So, as a Team, I'm saying that we all put our hands in a pinky swear to:
- Not get wrapped up in the numbers or create some real or perceived pressure to do more than what you know is the right thing for YOU to do.
- Ask for help if you need it.
- Understand that if these tools make you feel a little self-conscious or not very confident about your place on the squad...get over it, frankly. EN peeps are good peeps and there's simply no reason for you to feel that anyone wants anything for you other than what's best and right for you.
Now...gonna saddle up and put up another 4k of gain after 6.5k yesterday, because mama isn't home, it's 75f on a Sunday, I spent V-day evening alone with my dog last night and he makes a terrible Sunday brunch partner 
Comments
#1 and #3 you read my mind..this is exactly what I though after viewed you GMR guys workout compared to mine!
#2 This morning I could change my workout (25 meter to 50 meter) in Garmin connect but it didn't populate the adjusted data in Strava nor did Strava allow me to edit the distance. Is this correct or am missing something? I ended up adding a manual entry which only populated time.
Dana
I can now only imagine the pressure (not helped by dashboard shout outs) that watching other doodes and dudettes put up big volume may have.
Use Strava for what it is, fun social networking that allows you to spark some FRIENDLY and HEALTHY competition with yourself and others. Unplug if it turns into something other than that for you. (and if you unplug, turn off the email notifications, it still stings getting the "oh no" email years later)
As you (Rich) have said many times, and I try to keep in mind, "focus on the process". Starva is a tool, and should not be a distraction.
It is human nature, and I do it myself quite often, get a little off track. However, in recent months I have been able to use Strava as a nice motivating tool to get me out the door, on the bike, or to the pool to allow me to stick to the program. When I see my friends who have more limitations to their days than I do, yet they are able to find the time to not only be following their training plans but also doing quite well, it reminds me that I should have no excuses and to keep on schedule.
And, in reference to checking the training numbers to see who is at the top- I think my hubby Jan will be the first to admit he is a bit guilty of this at times.
I prefer my competition live, in races we're all paying good $$ to do our best in. Strava is a good way to see what EN friends are up to, but I just don't feel I have to keep up with Timmie when he's working hard on getting ready for his season of ultra racing.
I AM a little ticked off that I get credit for the hours and hours I spent skiing down the slopes of SNowmass the past two weeks, despite the days showing up on my Strava dashboard.
@ Roy - so you got of Strava only to sign up with Zwift?? Reminds me of my 20-something daughter who got off Facebook, only to cruise Instagram.
I like to see the work my teammates are putting in each week. I also know that this team consist of athletes that cover broad spectrum of endurance, fitness, and experience. With that said, since I joined this team, I know that my work is my work. I get out of it what I put into it and I don't find myself comparing my work to others'. I can see where you can get caught up in the numbers game of Strava by trying to best the next guy/gal but for what, a rank, that means nothing. Strava is a good tool for accountability.
"we've never had a single instance of one member putting down another member because they weren't "strong, fast, smart, doing enough." " <------ This is beyond true for this team. <br />
And yes, those competitive voices all come from within, as NO ONE here would shame anyone for where they are at in their journey.
So it IS just like my daughter - she wanted to stop talking to her friends on line (preferring to do it in person), and now just looks at pictures instead.
So, i'm not gonna lie, since beach to battleship is so late in the year, most other folks were in recovery after their races while i was still building so i actually made it on the team leader board last fall and I took a screenshot of it for "proof". I don't really follow it but is occasionally fun when you know you're putting in the hours to check and see how you are doing compared to the "big boys"
A better way to say it might be that as I approached my first Iron distance race, I found some reassurance that I was at least doing the work that I was supposed to be doing. That knowledge gave me some added confidence that I should be able to do what needed to be done on race day.
I came to EN for the Training Plans and Knowledge.... I stay for the people , continuing education through the forums, being part of a Team that is more like a Family.
I'm in competition with only myself , on Raceday I'm in competition with everyone on the start line in my AG! We do not need to compete agains ourselves (unless its raceday) and I think that the well educated self coached EN athlete gets that.
I like many of Strava's features and enjoy the social aspects, but don't spend too much time or mental effort there. With very few exceptions, the EN plans work perfectly for me and, if anything, I'd like to extend the low-volume work from 12 weeks out to 10 or 9 weeks out. Low volume simply works better for my joints, my job, my family and my sanity.
Because I know that there are a lot of ENers in their high-volume IM builds any given time between March and November, trying to match their weekly volume while I'm not in an IM build is foolish. Again, for me. Right now, there are a bunch of us on Strava preparing for ultras, IMNZ and IMTX, which are aberations to the OS universe most of the team currently resides. And that IM build is the only reason you may see my name next to big weekly volume. Trust me, I look forward to dropping off that volume radar in the coming days and staying off it for as long as Coach R will let me.
Hey Tim, Rob and the Twitter thing was month ago. The short answer is that we're aren't doing anything on Twitter that replaces something we're doing for the members. IOW, the things we do on Twitter are purely external marketing activity with the goal of pushing EN out to the world via a different channel. So you or anyone else isn't missing anything but not participating.
If anything, I think that Strava increases the engagement of EN athletes with each other over a channel that EN would not be able to duplicate. I know I dig it when I upload a workout check back later and see lots of kudos and some comments. And I enjoy doing the same with EN athletes. I think it creates the feeling that others are checking out your hard work, patting you on the back, helping us all feel a little bit less like we did _another_ solo ride.
I think it's just fun, that's all. I don't over think it.
But what I wanted to do in this thread was recognize the potential for people to get caught up in the volume measurement and to address that now before the big numbers start coming up in April and May
Tim, I completely agree.
I haven't used the EN plans in a couple of years and have completely moved away from that threshold-style of training but I stick around for the continued education and for the people through the EN forums. That stated, it's getting harder and harder for me to stick around for those reasons because as each day goes by the forums become less and less active. Crickets are going to be chirping soon. I'm just not at all involved in the social media stuff. I've had a Facebook account for years but that's mainly to keep in touch with family and keep tabs on the Houston area tri scene. As mentioned in my last post Strava is just an easy to use training log website. I could gives a rat's behind about the social media aspect. Can't see me ever having an Instagram account as I can count on one hand how many pictures I take in a given year. Twitter does nothing for me.
Like you I get that EN is a business and it seems EN is at an all-time high with the number of members (90% of which apparently don't use the forums) so I guess it's working. My main issue with the Tweets, and FB posts, and Instagram feeds, and Strava kudos, etc. is that in a flash it's gone or at least very hard to find again. The forum is a great repository for information, debate, education, and awareness... both proactively and historically (the suckiness of the EN forum search function notwithstanding). That is completely lost with the social media sites. Can't put the Wiki on Twitter. EN is becoming a training plan company with a social media footprint for people to make drive-by comments to each other in 140 characters or less. I think that's a bummer.
I like a thread. I like these forums, I do my best to post. I know it's important to put in some effort if you're going to get anything out of it. But I must admit, as a new member, I often feel like I'm talking to myself. People are lazy, they want instant gratification and you can see by the fact that they can't put their Fkg phones down to DRIVE, WALK, GO TO THE RESTROOM, that they are too sensory addicted to take the time to post in a threaded forum like this one. It's the world we live in. I have paged through some of the older threads...09 and 10 and found some really good stuff. Thankfully, it's all still here!
I love the aspect of Strava that allows me to see other EN athletes workouts. I'm easily able to understand why most people are doing the workouts they are doing. Cronk/Simmons are training for ultras.....Mike Roberts (and a couple of others) are training for IMNZ in a couple of weeks. So they are putting in crapload more hours than me. I'm not "worried" about that at all. I'm not trying to match their volume right now. Heck, even when in an IM build, if I'm following the plans as written (which in itself is a challenge some weeks) I couldn't do any more anyway.....nor should I. When I checked last night, I was ~29/150 on the EN Strava volume team weekly time totals. Frankly, I was a little surprised to see that, given I'm in the middle of Jan OS. I have no desire to try to move up the board just for the sake of the board. I think most self-coached EN athletes see this the same way...for what it is. My "placing" on the leaderboard just tells me I'm doing fine right now.
What I LIKE about Strava + EN is that it's an easy/quick way for me to see what EN Yankee is having to deal with compared with me in South Texas and how EN Yankee continues to get it done (in Hoth), when I would be living under a heating blanket. It motivates me to get off my lazy butt MANY days and do a workout I don't want to do but should be doing. During the IMTX build last year (my first full), it was INVALUABLE for me to see what the EN vets were doing and have them encourage me and give me kudos on my (slower) workouts. It was exactly what I needed and helped more than I can express. Yes, the same info is often available in the weekly workout threads, but it's just easier to see the data/workout in one place. It also saves the time of having to post the workout to the weekly threads.....but, I continue to do this for those who don't use Strava and to comment on how certain workouts went well/poorly/sucked/etc. I don't view Strava as "social media".....it's data media for tri/cycling/running geeks who like to share/learn/encourage each other. When I see SS do 2x20' at FTP with no dropoffs/soft-pedaling blips/etc., it makes me say....I need to suck it up and get that done too!
The other aspects of Strava (KOM, etc.) I don't really pay much attention too.....because I'm not going to be competitive (yet!). But for those who are interested in that stuff, as long as you're not sabotaging yourself chasing things that are not relevant to your next race, why not? This is all just for fun/fitness anyway IMHO.
If you're not using Strava and haven't joined the EN group within Strava, I think you're missing out...give it a try. Garmin will directly upload to Strava for you.
1) anything can be a competition if you want it to be. Some benefit from that, others don't. I've never looked at the leaderboard, I just like to track my stuff and to be able to hi five folks for their workouts. For me, it seems cleaner than having everyone go in the dashboard and say "I just rode my bike!" Which there was a ton of a few years ago...
2) when Endurance Nation started in 2007, there was no Twitter. None of you were on facebook. Instagrams founder was like 13. Point being, the world has simply changed. People are more active than ever online, but now they do it through smart phones not through laptops or desktops. We see this in our web statistics, people are more active on the site but they don't post as much as they used to. My personal rule of phone is that if you want something to be awesome, you have to lead by example and participate. If, like Bob, you are not participating and are not involved, I think you should expect very little. This is true for almost everything, not simply online forums.
Behind the scenes here we are committed to both attracting new members and supporting and sustaining the ones that we have. We are balancing the need to develop new channels and new content as we continue to support everything that we've already built as a team. Threads like this are part of the discussion, and we appreciate your candid feedback and input!
My goal is QOM on anything flat or downhill on any of my routes. Whatever makes it interesting, right?
I have been waiting for this thread to come out for a while now.
Coach R, thanks for leading and getting us started in the right direction on this topic.
I will never be the fastest on the EN Strava page, rack up a bunch cool KOMs nor lead in hours worked in a week. That said, I truly enjoy watching my teammates (my family) hit those milestones which leads me to the real reason I use this tool:
On any given day, I can go through and find several, hard working peeps that just rolled their sleeves up, dug deep and put out an amazing work session. I thoroughly enjoy recognizing those individuals on a daily basis via short but focused comments. That's good for them, its good for EN and honestly, its good for me.
That aspect of Strava can be powerful in maintaining a strong team and should continue to be leveraged as such.
It does not take away from my focused use of the EN plans, forums and tools......in fact, for me, it reinforces the value and effectiveness of the Haus.......
When it stops becoming "All about you" and more about supporting the standards, methodologies and culture of EN way, we all get stronger....
The one change I wish Strava would make is require time in every discipline (swim, bike, run) for a tri club. A couple of the clubs I belong to have cyclists who routinely put in 10+ hours per week cycling, maybe 1-2 hours running, and usually zero swimming. To be on the leaderboard for a tri club, it should require time in every discipline, say at least 30 minutes. It's a tri club, not a cycling club.
I like to use Strava for the fact that I do not have many tri-friends and so I enjoy seeing the effort being put in by many others. The few tri friends I do have are all new to triathlon and I have been trying to convince them to join Strava, but no luck so far. Prior to EN I also did not use Strava, so maybe they all should just join EN.
What frustrates me about strava is the email I received today. "You lost your CR to XX". Ok thats fair, I am not the fastest by any means but did enjoy the fact that I held one record. So I look at this persons segment and it is a 1.1 mile segment done in 4:10. That is a 3:40 min/ mile. I look at the workout in which he set this record and it is 9.9 miles at a 3:59 min/mile. Obviously done on a bike!!!
This was my 3rd OS with EN and the first one where Strava played a key role. I really enjoyed seeing everyone's rides and runs show up in the activity feed. It made it very easy to give kudos and comments and personally i found it incredibly motivating. I was able to push myself harder than i thought i could. I found myself posting less in the Nov OS forum threads and instead using Strava as my primary vehicle to connect with the team. At no point in the OS did i ever sense a pecking order or any behavior that could be considered as remotely condescending. Everyone supported everyone else in their own personal journey to be the best that they can possibly be and that is what makes this place so awesome.
I think Shaughn summed it up very well. Strava is a great tool and it serves a purpose. At the same time it does not take away from what we have inside the haus, it only builds upon it and offers members another way to connect, interact and get to know one another.
Patrick, I more than realize that "the times they are a changing" and I'm usually the first one to buy a new TV or Xbox or iPad or whatever. I love and embrace technology. I get what you guys are doing with social media and it certainly makes sense. My concern, and I'm obviously not the only one, is the EN website and forums are getting lost in transition.
All of us came to EN primarily for the training plans and the training philosophy. We wanted to get faster and we heard great things. All that was true. I never expected to be here for more than a season or two. The EN community through the EN forums are really the glue that holds it all together, IMO. It's the backbone and nerve center of what you and Rich built. We just can't have the same level of communication and discussion over Twitter or Facebook that we have here. It's not practical or plausible.
I don't have an answer as to how you can direct traffic to both here and social media. My guess is you cannot. People will choose one over the other, and it's quite obvious which path is being chosen. I just think, in the long run, that's severing the backbone of what makes it all hum. I'm confident I'm not telling you things you don't already know but without the sense of community we have here it's just a company that makes really good training plans.
I guess that's all part of the 140 character or less world that we live in. All of our who/what/where/when/why/how nuts & bolts discussions are going to turn into "Hey Cronk, good job on ur wko 2day. Cya ltr."
Bob and ROY X2.... That is what I was saying as well.... The Dashboard has slowed WAY down and so has Forum participation... That is due to duplicating everything do you really wanna have the same discussion on STRAVA and EN ??? And then on FB.... and then TWEET about it? and then post your WKO pics to Instagram?...... I dont know what the answer is.... This dinosaur may actually breakdown and open a FB account for other reasons .... But that will be the absolute last place I would like to discuss peeing on the bike or posting half naked pictures of my broken clavicle!
And while I do think the Twitter Trichat is kind of cool, I haven't learned much that i didn't already know from the boards. I kind of see that as a way to attract new EN members rather than a substitute for the board.
Feeling old. I only use Strava because it's automagically populated from TP or Garmin Connect... they all seem to populate one another. I have another team that logs there too. But I don't spend a lot of time there. I can see where the rather instant connection is appealing to people. We have a chat room here, yes? Does anyone use it?
I have this other place I put everything... manually Nutrition/sleep/time&HR for a nutrition person. Been using it for a year with my nutrition guy. Not changing that.
FB is for family (they all live far from me) and scheduling workouts with clubs...they organize weekly running/cycling/brick events. Special events so if I want to do that, I need to log on, accept invites etc.
Twitter is for news. Steady stream of work related stuff with some tri newsletter stuff mixed in. I don't use any of them to log into any of the others. I have an instagram account where I can go and see the same crap that people post to facebook, so I generally don't bother with it.
I keep things separate. Does anyone else keep things compartmentalized like that?
I like this forum. But people can't be forced to maintain a substantive exchange of ideas.