Keeping the running more on the tempo pace has worked, mixing a few intervals in when if feels right. Biked 80 with 7k climbing on Saturday, ran 10 miles on Sunday, both a bit more than the get faster plan prescribed. In aggregate I have been at 100% for the last weeks. Looking forward to Amzof and been having fun. Was a tough 3 weeks in late March/early April getting sick and a bad hamstring. in retrospect, being sick may have been a blessing as gave time to heel
Swimming 3x per week with the workouts listed has gotten me a bit faster quickly as well (still a very slow swimmer so lots of wood to chop).
The main issue I face for my larger goal of IM Chatanooga in late September is a family trip to Sicily (total gluttony) from July 2 through July 13. I need help in how to plan around that. Should I ramp up training heavily the few weeks before the trip so some of the time off would be recovery? Should I try and find a 70.3 that happens right before I leave? Should I just stick to plan before trip? I suspect while away I will at best get a few runs and a few swims in. How problematic is this?
Ken, awesome....can't wait to hear about AmZo. In the meantime, I am not super worried about that trip...you'll have 10-11 weeks when you get back, which is our "typical" race build. So it's more a function of how to handle the next six weeks. My personal bias is to find a race between now and departure and have you train for that...we use that as a carrot...and so you can go on vacation relatively free of training stress as you won't be mid-plan. My only other suggestion will be to plan in a big bike weekend before you go...like two solid days of 5 hour rides....just to have that under your belt.
Let me know about the race option and riding dates (if they work).
Amzof was great, was 3 minutes faster than last year and most times were 10 minutes slower do to being about 15 degrees warmer than last year. It was in the 80s and humid
Had 230 average watts on the first bike loop and 165 and the 2nd loop. Interestingly my speeds were just not much slower on the 2nd loop which I just can not understand.
If was all going great when on the last run look I tripped, when I got up my leg just cramped. Sounds like a text book example of going out a little to hard.
Doing a big bike weekend not a problem but will not be this week as legs are jelly. So before my trip should I target an olympic or a half distance?
Ken, let's go for a half if you can, you have the fitness for sure. As for your AmZo power differential, you should take a look at the VI. My guess is you rode Second loop much smarter than first loop (cuz you were tired)...a good lesson as you could probably run a great deal faster (and not cramp) without going nuts on the first loop! Let me know what you see....
Has all been going well for me, am injury free, having fun and progress has been respectable. I am now on the EN IM plan and need some advice given some scheduling issues that have come up.
Please keep in mind with any thoughts you may have: my race goal is IM Chattanooga on 9/27 and nothing else.
So here are the issues:
Going on a family trip to Sicily from 7/2 to 7/13. Will be lots of moving around froim town to town and touring so imagine workouts will be limited to an hour or so and likely not every day. Running likely the most possible, but can probably get an occasional swim in. Bike aint happening.
Just learned I will be in California on a business trip on Tues 6/23 through Thursday 6/25. No bike or swim possible, but lots of time to run in mornings. How should I adjust this week (7 of 20)? I can get a bike or swim in Monday and/or Friday, though would likely need to be one or the other
There is a local Olympic Tri on Sunday 6/28 I was considering doing, but thinking this may not now be optimal now if a long ride before my trip is needed. Thoughts?
Also am registered for New York Triathlon on 7/19 (the week after I return from my 11 days of carb loading). I can defer this to next year if this is best. Thoughts?
6/20 and 21 = Longer Ride Weekend to make up for upcoming travel...call it 4-5h on Sat, and up to 4 on Sunday. Not effort on Sunday, just time baby time. Mon - Your long swim of the week. Tues - 45' FTP Run Wed - Long Run for the Week. Thu - Short 45' Zone 2 run with Strides (or rest, your call). Fri - Bike about 2.5 hours, nothing really hard, just getting it done with a few 2' efforts in Z4. Short run off bike if you can. Sat - OFF / Prep Sun - Race
Then next week you have 4 days until your trip, I would just bike or swim...whatever you want.
7/2 to 7/13 = Run Frequency Block -- Set up a basic rhythm as follows: (A) 30' to 45' easy run with strides. (B) 45' run with 4 x 3' (2') at 5k effort. (C) 60' Zone 2 Steady run, last 15' in Zone 3. If you sleep in or take a day off, totally fine!
7/19 = NYC Tri, I say when you come back load up the Adv Short Course plan and do that until race day...it's one week, it's a good re-entry to training racing after your trip and you'll be sufficiently motivated when you are done to get back into the real stuff...of course, if you decide otherwise that's cool, just let me know here!!!
Yes, time to bump it up...but you'll need about 5 days to get into a nice routine with your body again...so don't push too hard or get too worried about the numbers until the weekend. I think I can smell the garlic from here in RI...
Feeling pretty good and been following the full schedule again.
The New York Tri went well given the citywide air quality and heat alerts. Once again perhaps a bit to hard on the bike and paid a bit on the run but less so than in the past!
2 questions for you
1) Am looking at past the swim times for IM Chatanooga, given the fast swims overall, I supposed to alter the EN program to have less swimming and more bike/run (especially given the bike is an extra 4 miles)? I was thinking I would be a 1:20 - 1:25 would be a typical IM swim, but at Chatanooga seems an hour may not be a problem.
2) On bike power testing, I am finding that the terrain it is done on makes a huge difference and was hoping to get your guidance on how to set training zones. On a flats I can hold 200 watts for 20 minutes, if there is some climbing I can get this 20 minute average to 250 watts. How should I set my zones? (I am really working hard at improving my power on flats and easing up on hill)
Ken, congrats on the race. No need to adjust the plan for a faster swim / 4 mile longer bike...both are negligible and the plan will have you ready.
Ken, our only stipulation is that it's a consistent test area. So you can track your progress / changes as your fitness ebbs and flows across a season. I think the hilly area is fine...let's get that number up!!! It will also give you a solid Zone 2 number to try and use in your Race Rehearsals.
If you haven't done so already, please check out the the Chattanooga race page for learning, etc. Lots of great info there!
Real life has entered the process once again next ! Next week is week 14/20 of the IM plan and I will be taking my daughter down to college in Austin, Texas. I will have tremendous access to great running, open water swim and my friends spin studio where the classes are an intense 45 minutes (I could do back to back classes) . I think I can count on being able to do 2-3 hours of training time for Friday, Saturday and Sunday.
Monday through Thursday of that week I can fit in 2-3 hours. Should I do a bunch of 2-3 hour bike rides before leaving and save the swimming / running for trip?
Ken super cool! I like the idea of the early rides, and then long run and swims there...something like this:
Mon - Swim + 2 hour ride. Tues - 3 hour ride, strong last hour. Wed - 45' steady run with strides (if you need to you can put the monday swim here instead of on monday) Thu - 3 hour ride, strong last hour. Fri - short 45' run for acclimation, OWS if possible. Sat - OWS long here if possible. Sun - Long Run Day, then compression home, Monday swim only or off.
You could swap sat/sun depending on the on the ground resources. No spinning please unless lightning tornado threatens you.
Be ready from a hydration perspective given the heat, etc!
OK, am in week 16, generally following the intermediate plan for IM Chatanooga.
Just completed the recommended 2.5 hour run. It went fine and exactly as planned relative to pace, perceived exertion and heart rate.
I have noticed over the last few weeks increasing soreness in both Achilles tendons. Having the classic symptoms of pain when I first get out of bed, loosens up during a run and then hurts later in the day.
Should I modify any of the running intensity or volume from the recommended intermediate IM plan going forward? As we know have come so far and do not want this to blow me up. No clue if I am being too paranoid or not, but can say with all my numerous running ailments over the last 51 years this has never been one of them.
(I have been sidelined for months at a time in the past due to plantar fasciitis so certinly have this in the back of my mind)
Ken, so glad you reached out. Your work is done. Done on the run. You need to stay fit and keep the run train rolling, but you don't _have to_ run long at all. Rather, I'd prefer that you keep the runs under an hour, whenever possible.
In the meantime I would go to www.athletestreatingathletes.com and watch the videos on calf / achilles care. If you can get 1-2 ART massage sessions on your calves that will help too.
If you are worried you can replace the run time with some swim time...but right now it's all about locking in heat management and nutrition comfort!
I got the massage, it helped. Archilles felt OK this morning and my OCD couple with a beautiful morning compelled me to do the long "scheduled:" run. Kept the pace moderate and clocked 16 miles on flattish terrain.
Felt OK, though the first 3 miles done very slow were a little stiff. Sorry about not shutting it down, back for another massage tomorrow
Thanks Patrick. Long runs officially closed down, I swear. I think I needed the confidence that came from getting the last one done.
Archilles still stiff. What is the least I should run over these last 2 weeks? Would like to do that and create as much rest as possbile
Another prior to Chatanooga is fine tuning the wattage I will be targeting on the bike. I have lots of data from many long rides over the past months. My FTP is 245, and doing 65% (159) of that is definitely possible. I often do that or a bit higher output on my longer rides always with a reasonable amount of exertion.
My issue with targeting 65% of number, is that I have never come off the bike rested enough to even come close to being able to run 26 miles. You think I should attribute that to not being tapered? Or do I target a lower wattage on race day? Part of me wants to play it safe and target 60% FTP.
Ken, I would literally aquajog after your swim sessions (you can load up on swims), for like 15 minutes. Make sure you are getting ART / massage and make time for it in CHOO as well as they'll have it in the expo, etc.
You should target 70%. Why? Well, first because no one hits that number they target...aim for 70, get 68. Aim for 68, get 65, etc.
Second, below 70% and you risk "under-racing" your day, basically getting stuck in a rut and it messes up your nutrition, and more.
Finally, remember that the killer isn't the % FTP, but rather your Variability Index. Most newbies get 70% by going too hard up hills and coasting down..that won't work. On a course like CHOO you have to float the upps (spin, keep watts down) and push the downs into the flats (except the downs with sharp turns!). You'll need the free speed and momentum on your side to have a good bike that sets you up for your run!
Please feel free to ask the Team in the CHOO forum or in the Power/Pace one...
Thanks Achilles now feeling a whole world better with just 3 days rest and confidence now rising as a direct result.
Shocked at the power advice you are giving but looking forward to it as I love the bike and have been working hard for months at bringing the VI index down. As has been emphasized will work to eliminate power spikes.
During race final rehearsal, I did 63% and felt I was working relatively hard, do you think the taper will allow me to do 70% with the same perceived exertion?
Thanks for your help so far. The EN experience has sure been helpful
Ken, before you go annihilate yourself, step back and look at your 5-hour power in your data (if you have TP.com). That number will tell you what you have been holding up until now (in addition to your intuition).
I say 70% assuming that your FTP is correct, and also hasn't nosedived. IOW, we tell everyone they can ride .7, as it's only 70% of their FTP.
If, however, you haven't tested in a few months...then odds are your FTP has moved slightly south by 5%, making .65 now really a .7 effort.
Can you speak to how your mid week intervals / FTP work has gone? Do you have any 5 hour data (TP.com or Strava?)
6 hour RR 149 / 154NP 5 hours 149/169 NP (rode a few hours with some friends explaiining the high VI) 5 h0urs 154 / 166 NP
I did do the NY Olympic tri in late July at 177/192 NP, It was 100 degrees out and was very happy with overall race performance
Mid weeks FTP work has gone well. Lots of hills where I live so hitting the numbers and adding up the aggregate time in z4 has how I have been going about it.
So with this where you think I should target for IM Chatannoga?
Ken assuming you didn't blow up and crawl home sucking your thumb, then I think 165 is a good target for the Steady Stuff (JRA / easy early stuff would be like 155 until your HR comes down)...if you aim for 165, you'll end up closer to 160...
Just as important, note your AVG HR for those rides as well so you have a corollary value...aka when I see 165, I should see about 140 HR. If I see higher than that number ( + or - a bit ) then something is wrong and I need to back off and fix it -- fluids, etc. All of this is in the Master Racing Execution stuff...
Thanks for the guidance. Heart rate on the bike has been pretty low, 130ish for longer rides in the target wattage that you have indicated, so I think we are good.
Keeping heart rate low on the run has been my challenge.
Ran once this week for 45 minutes and Achilles / tendons felt it the next day for sure. Couple days later and feeling again feeling somewhat better already. So the running shutdown until race day continues.
Okay! I have found that as my run economy deteriorates (and fatigue also builds) that my HR is unreasonably high. Warmer temps don't help either..but as I am resting, I am seeing my numbers come around for Hawaii on the run...so stay healthy!!!
Comments
Keeping the running more on the tempo pace has worked, mixing a few intervals in when if feels right. Biked 80 with 7k climbing on Saturday, ran 10 miles on Sunday, both a bit more than the get faster plan prescribed. In aggregate I have been at 100% for the last weeks. Looking forward to Amzof and been having fun. Was a tough 3 weeks in late March/early April getting sick and a bad hamstring. in retrospect, being sick may have been a blessing as gave time to heel
Swimming 3x per week with the workouts listed has gotten me a bit faster quickly as well (still a very slow swimmer so lots of wood to chop).
The main issue I face for my larger goal of IM Chatanooga in late September is a family trip to Sicily (total gluttony) from July 2 through July 13. I need help in how to plan around that. Should I ramp up training heavily the few weeks before the trip so some of the time off would be recovery? Should I try and find a 70.3 that happens right before I leave? Should I just stick to plan before trip? I suspect while away I will at best get a few runs and a few swims in. How problematic is this?
Thanks again
Let me know about the race option and riding dates (if they work).
Had 230 average watts on the first bike loop and 165 and the 2nd loop. Interestingly my speeds were just not much slower on the 2nd loop which I just can not understand.
If was all going great when on the last run look I tripped, when I got up my leg just cramped. Sounds like a text book example of going out a little to hard.
Doing a big bike weekend not a problem but will not be this week as legs are jelly. So before my trip should I target an olympic or a half distance?
Congrats on your race, awesome job!
Thanks for the props!
P
Has all been going well for me, am injury free, having fun and progress has been respectable. I am now on the EN IM plan and need some advice given some scheduling issues that have come up.
Please keep in mind with any thoughts you may have: my race goal is IM Chattanooga on 9/27 and nothing else.
So here are the issues:
Going on a family trip to Sicily from 7/2 to 7/13. Will be lots of moving around froim town to town and touring so imagine workouts will be limited to an hour or so and likely not every day. Running likely the most possible, but can probably get an occasional swim in. Bike aint happening.
Just learned I will be in California on a business trip on Tues 6/23 through Thursday 6/25. No bike or swim possible, but lots of time to run in mornings. How should I adjust this week (7 of 20)? I can get a bike or swim in Monday and/or Friday, though would likely need to be one or the other
There is a local Olympic Tri on Sunday 6/28 I was considering doing, but thinking this may not now be optimal now if a long ride before my trip is needed. Thoughts?
Also am registered for New York Triathlon on 7/19 (the week after I return from my 11 days of carb loading). I can defer this to next year if this is best. Thoughts?
Thanks
6/20 and 21 = Longer Ride Weekend to make up for upcoming travel...call it 4-5h on Sat, and up to 4 on Sunday. Not effort on Sunday, just time baby time.
Mon - Your long swim of the week.
Tues - 45' FTP Run
Wed - Long Run for the Week.
Thu - Short 45' Zone 2 run with Strides (or rest, your call).
Fri - Bike about 2.5 hours, nothing really hard, just getting it done with a few 2' efforts in Z4. Short run off bike if you can.
Sat - OFF / Prep
Sun - Race
Then next week you have 4 days until your trip, I would just bike or swim...whatever you want.
7/2 to 7/13 = Run Frequency Block -- Set up a basic rhythm as follows: (A) 30' to 45' easy run with strides. (B) 45' run with 4 x 3' (2') at 5k effort. (C) 60' Zone 2 Steady run, last 15' in Zone 3. If you sleep in or take a day off, totally fine!
7/19 = NYC Tri, I say when you come back load up the Adv Short Course plan and do that until race day...it's one week, it's a good re-entry to training racing after your trip and you'll be sufficiently motivated when you are done to get back into the real stuff...of course, if you decide otherwise that's cool, just let me know here!!!
I can do all this and thanks for the thoughts.
When I get back from my summer food orgy, I know myself and am confident I will have zero problem getting my head back into things.
Given that does doing the NY Tri the first week back help or hurt the Chatanooga IM goal? I guess your answer could be it is not so relevant as well.
Thanks
Back from the 10 day carb load in Sicily. Was able to run and swim a reasonable amount. Lots of hiking. THat said no question a few pounds gained.
I feel good. NY Triathlon this Sunday and have been on the Advanced Short Course plan this week as reccomended.
Time to ramp it up for IM Chatanooga. Do I just jump into the IM plan come Monday?
The New York Tri went well given the citywide air quality and heat alerts. Once again perhaps a bit to hard on the bike and paid a bit on the run but less so than in the past!
1) Am looking at past the swim times for IM Chatanooga, given the fast swims overall, I supposed to alter the EN program to have less swimming and more bike/run (especially given the bike is an extra 4 miles)? I was thinking I would be a 1:20 - 1:25 would be a typical IM swim, but at Chatanooga seems an hour may not be a problem.
2) On bike power testing, I am finding that the terrain it is done on makes a huge difference and was hoping to get your guidance on how to set training zones. On a flats I can hold 200 watts for 20 minutes, if there is some climbing I can get this 20 minute average to 250 watts. How should I set my zones? (I am really working hard at improving my power on flats and easing up on hill)
Ken, our only stipulation is that it's a consistent test area. So you can track your progress / changes as your fitness ebbs and flows across a season. I think the hilly area is fine...let's get that number up!!! It will also give you a solid Zone 2 number to try and use in your Race Rehearsals.
If you haven't done so already, please check out the the Chattanooga race page for learning, etc. Lots of great info there!
IM Training going well
Real life has entered the process once again next ! Next week is week 14/20 of the IM plan and I will be taking my daughter down to college in Austin, Texas. I will have tremendous access to great running, open water swim and my friends spin studio where the classes are an intense 45 minutes (I could do back to back classes) . I think I can count on being able to do 2-3 hours of training time for Friday, Saturday and Sunday.
Monday through Thursday of that week I can fit in 2-3 hours. Should I do a bunch of 2-3 hour bike rides before leaving and save the swimming / running for trip?
After this it should be close to smooth sailing!
Any ideas appreciated
Mon - Swim + 2 hour ride.
Tues - 3 hour ride, strong last hour.
Wed - 45' steady run with strides (if you need to you can put the monday swim here instead of on monday)
Thu - 3 hour ride, strong last hour.
Fri - short 45' run for acclimation, OWS if possible.
Sat - OWS long here if possible.
Sun - Long Run Day, then compression home, Monday swim only or off.
You could swap sat/sun depending on the on the ground resources. No spinning please unless lightning tornado threatens you.
Be ready from a hydration perspective given the heat, etc!
Just completed the recommended 2.5 hour run. It went fine and exactly as planned relative to pace, perceived exertion and heart rate.
I have noticed over the last few weeks increasing soreness in both Achilles tendons. Having the classic symptoms of pain when I first get out of bed, loosens up during a run and then hurts later in the day.
Should I modify any of the running intensity or volume from the recommended intermediate IM plan going forward? As we know have come so far and do not want this to blow me up. No clue if I am being too paranoid or not, but can say with all my numerous running ailments over the last 51 years this has never been one of them.
(I have been sidelined for months at a time in the past due to plantar fasciitis so certinly have this in the back of my mind)
In the meantime I would go to www.athletestreatingathletes.com and watch the videos on calf / achilles care. If you can get 1-2 ART massage sessions on your calves that will help too.
If you are worried you can replace the run time with some swim time...but right now it's all about locking in heat management and nutrition comfort!
I got the massage, it helped. Archilles felt OK this morning and my OCD couple with a beautiful morning compelled me to do the long "scheduled:" run. Kept the pace moderate and clocked 16 miles on flattish terrain.
Felt OK, though the first 3 miles done very slow were a little stiff. Sorry about not shutting it down, back for another massage tomorrow
Archilles still stiff. What is the least I should run over these last 2 weeks? Would like to do that and create as much rest as possbile
Another prior to Chatanooga is fine tuning the wattage I will be targeting on the bike. I have lots of data from many long rides over the past months. My FTP is 245, and doing 65% (159) of that is definitely possible. I often do that or a bit higher output on my longer rides always with a reasonable amount of exertion.
My issue with targeting 65% of number, is that I have never come off the bike rested enough to even come close to being able to run 26 miles. You think I should attribute that to not being tapered? Or do I target a lower wattage on race day? Part of me wants to play it safe and target 60% FTP.
Please advise and keep in mind I am 51 years old
You should target 70%. Why? Well, first because no one hits that number they target...aim for 70, get 68. Aim for 68, get 65, etc.
Second, below 70% and you risk "under-racing" your day, basically getting stuck in a rut and it messes up your nutrition, and more.
Finally, remember that the killer isn't the % FTP, but rather your Variability Index. Most newbies get 70% by going too hard up hills and coasting down..that won't work. On a course like CHOO you have to float the upps (spin, keep watts down) and push the downs into the flats (except the downs with sharp turns!). You'll need the free speed and momentum on your side to have a good bike that sets you up for your run!
Please feel free to ask the Team in the CHOO forum or in the Power/Pace one...
Thanks Achilles now feeling a whole world better with just 3 days rest and confidence now rising as a direct result.
Shocked at the power advice you are giving but looking forward to it as I love the bike and have been working hard for months at bringing the VI index down. As has been emphasized will work to eliminate power spikes.
During race final rehearsal, I did 63% and felt I was working relatively hard, do you think the taper will allow me to do 70% with the same perceived exertion?
Thanks for your help so far. The EN experience has sure been helpful
I say 70% assuming that your FTP is correct, and also hasn't nosedived. IOW, we tell everyone they can ride .7, as it's only 70% of their FTP.
If, however, you haven't tested in a few months...then odds are your FTP has moved slightly south by 5%, making .65 now really a .7 effort.
Can you speak to how your mid week intervals / FTP work has gone? Do you have any 5 hour data (TP.com or Strava?)
Here is my last 3 weeks of long ride info
6 hour RR 149 / 154NP
5 hours 149/169 NP (rode a few hours with some friends explaiining the high VI)
5 h0urs 154 / 166 NP
I did do the NY Olympic tri in late July at 177/192 NP, It was 100 degrees out and was very happy with overall race performance
Mid weeks FTP work has gone well. Lots of hills where I live so hitting the numbers and adding up the aggregate time in z4 has how I have been going about it.
So with this where you think I should target for IM Chatannoga?
Ken
Just as important, note your AVG HR for those rides as well so you have a corollary value...aka when I see 165, I should see about 140 HR. If I see higher than that number ( + or - a bit ) then something is wrong and I need to back off and fix it -- fluids, etc. All of this is in the Master Racing Execution stuff...
http://members.endurancenation.us/Resources/RacingMemberCentral/RaceExecutionDetails/MasterRaceExecutionPage(HalfFull).aspx
Thanks for the guidance. Heart rate on the bike has been pretty low, 130ish for longer rides in the target wattage that you have indicated, so I think we are good.
Keeping heart rate low on the run has been my challenge.
Ran once this week for 45 minutes and Achilles / tendons felt it the next day for sure. Couple days later and feeling again feeling somewhat better already. So the running shutdown until race day continues.