I am by no means suggesting that you dial the race back to Placid rather, I'm just pointing out that it's hard to plan for September only have increased in July 2
One of my biggest pet peeves is when athletes subconsciously undermine their performance by focusing on distant, future goals. You can absolutely excel at both events, but the first step towards that is committing fully to the event that is in front of you. Once you've done that race, you will know what you've done to your body and that will dictate how we will train you for your marathon.
As for your fiancé, yes I believe the intermediate MN plan would be perfect. Let me know if you have any questions about that.
Got it coach, thanks for the input. On a separate note, trying to figure out Marathon Nation for my fiance. I having some issues downloading the 12 Week Intermediate Plan- it says the file is invalid. Is there any way you can send me the info through email? (teammarchewka@gmail.com)
Also, I tried to register on the MarathonNation site, but it doesn't appear the "register" button is working.
Hey Coach, finished up LP this past weekend. Looking to move forward and recover/get into marathon training. How should I best approach this? Legs are obviously pretty heavy at the moment. Can you help me with a recovery plan? And setting up a plan for the marathon on October 16th...about 11.5 weeks from today. I think LP will be my last tri for a year or 2. Can we do the plan or communication through Marathon Nation? Thanks for your help and support at LP!
Congrats on LP!!! It was so much fun watching you athletes rock that Placid course! W Rich is presenting a webinar tomorrow at 5pm (central USA time) discussing post-IM transition. The webinars are also archived so you can watch later. I'm sure he'll give you good ideas here as well for your specific goal. Good luck with transitioning into Marathon training. Way to go in LP!!
Jordan, great race! There is the Post Ironman Transition Plan... You should load that.
To accelerate recovery I suggest a massage (light) and some light swimming or cycling (very short, under 30 minutes). All easy. We have about 4 weeks of recovery before we can get back to full training -- if we get it right you can have a great marathon. Get back to training too soon and you'll pay the price.
There's also a few post race resources under the Resources / Wiki / Self Coaching..... http://bit.ly/2adrzm1
Marathon Nation doesn't run the same as EN does with a forum and support...but I can answer your running questions over on our Facebook page: www.facebook.com/marathonnation
Thanks Coach. Loaded up the 4 week plan. Should I just stick with 30 min swims and bikes throughout the 4 weeks (i.e. Don't do 90 min bikes or hour swims as the plan suggests)?
Got the 4 week recovery plan loaded up post LP. Right now I am seriously focusing on recovery and trying to lose weight safely over the next 11 weeks. I don't have much weight to lose, but I want to do everything in my power to have a good race and shave some seconds. Anything I should take differently during the next 3 weeks recovery knowing I have a marathon in the future. Unless I hear otherwise, I will complete 3 more weeks of recovery then head into Marathon training. With 8 weeks to go, it appears I should buy a plan off Marathon Nation as all the EN marathon plans are 24 weeks vs 12? Then just follow that last 8 weeks of a 12 week plan? Shooting for 3 hours...assume advanced vs intermediate but let me know. Also, if I follow the above. Anything I should know only having 8 weeks left? Sorry for all the questions recently, I am just really psyched to be getting back to marathons and would love to hear your expertise on it all.
JM, the recovery is the most important thing you can do. Please know that the marathon plans are the same here as they are in Marathon Nation, so just use our plans and save the money. I can help you navigate using the final weeks as needed. The big question is do you want to do the balanced plan with a cycling workout or do you want to be 100% running. That's up to you.
Accelerated recovery means getting one or two massages and doing daily stretching and foam rolling. I would plan on spending some time in the pool and easy cycling to get the legs flushed.
By the time you finish a recovery plan you should be beyond just doing easy runs and you'll be ready for the mileage. Let's make sure we check in at the end of those four weeks so we can make decisions about starting the run plan based off of how your legs feel at the time. Sound good?
Quick marathon plan question. The 2 workouts below this week appear to be about last about 20 min max. Should I just be doing the main set or adding in additional miles?
Tuesday 60 min MS: 2 x 200, 3 x 400, 2 x 200, all at z5/IP w/ full recoveries between each. Full recovery means AT LEAST as much time as the WORK INTERVAL, if not 1.5 times. Be ready to start the next one.
Wednesday 35 min MS: 6 x 40" Up + 5" Sprint (2') Uphill run is done as bounding at a steady effort, exaggerated arm swing, takeoff + landing. Time hill to be at top to start sprint. Easy jog back down.
Looking forward to next week (week 20 of Intermediate marathon plan) and just wanted to get some advice on the 2 below workouts.
Should I just do the 2 below workouts for distance (Wednesday) and Time (Thursday) at MP? Or follow what is suggested in the plan? Based on our phone call a few weeks back, it sounded like I should be doing these types of workouts at MP.
Wednesday 100 min 10-mile run MS: 9 miles @ z1/LRP, last 1 mile at z4 / TPace. Should be done on rolling terrain.
Thursday 60 min MS: 3 x (5' @ z2/MP, 4' @ z4/TP, 3' @ z1/LRP); Remainder of time @ z2/MP.
Also, my fiance is using the intermediate plan but from Marathon Nation. However, I have noticed that in her plan is a little different. It doesn't have additional time after interval runs or tempo runs. Just wanted to give you a heads up.
Lastly, I am hitting all my runs perfectly (mid week runs perfect at Z2/sometimes even around 640 and averaging 7:25ish (MP + 35 seconds) for my long Saturday runs). Is there anything I should change vs the plan over the next 5 weeks? (Stay at intermediate? Keep longest run at 20 miles? etc)
Thanks for checking in. Yes to MP on the Wed long run..call is 2 miles at TRP, then 8 miles at MP.
For Thursday the Jury is out. I am okay with you doing a bit more Zone 3 time (HMP) for intervals. So this one would be 3 x 9’ @ z3/HMP with 3’ recoveries in Z1.
I think we keep rolling with the weekends as are. We can’t ask for more than what you are doing…to mess with it anymore might tip you over the edge. I would focus on nailing the heart rate number (so you know where you want to be on race day) and the nutrition…especially the last 1/3 of these runs.
I am in week 21, trying to look ahead and see what final questions I have. Things have been going perfect! Just hit 18:35 for my training 5k this Tuesday. Work is working! I just had questions about the mid week runs until the plan is over...starting with week 22. With my Ironman fatigue, I want to do enough but as you said not push me over the edge. Do you think the below workouts are appropriate for my situation? I assume for the 8 mile and 6 mile runs I should do something similar to last week where I start with 2 miles at TRP then the remaining at Z2? I am a little more unsure if I should do the other workouts (Tuesday/Thursday) as stated or if you could tweak them? Hopefully these are the final questions up until race day, 24 days to go! Thanks for your help!
Week 22
Tuesday 80 min MS: 2 x (7' @ z2/MP, 3' @ z1/LRP, 7' @ z4/TP, 3' @ z1/LRP)
Wednesday 80 min 8-mile run MS: 4 miles @ z1 / LRP, last 4 miles at z3 / HMP. Solid effort run!!!
Thursday 60 min MS: 2 x [1 mile @ z4/TP, 2 x 400 @ z5/IP, 200 @ z5/IP] all w/ full recoveries; Remainder of time @ z2/MP. Full recovery means AT LEAST as much time as the WORK INTERVAL, if not 1.5 times. Be ready to start the next one.
Week 23
Tuesday 75 min MS: 2 x (6' @ z2/MP, 4' @ z1/LRP, 6' @ z4/TP, 4' @ z1/LRP)
Wednesday 80 min 8-mile run MS: 5 miles @ z1/LRP, 1 mile @ Z4 / TPace, 1 mile @ z1/LRP, 1 mile @ Z4 / TPace.
Thursday 60 min MS: 4 x 800 (4') @ Z5/IP; Remainder of time @ z2/MP.
JM, thanks so much for the update. Continue to monitor recovery and take a day off as needed. You are in a great place but are never that far from fatigue hitting you like an armored car. Here are my edits for you!!!
Week 22
Tuesday - 80 min MS: 2 x 15’ (5’) @ z3/HMP, remainder is TRP
Wednesday - 80 min MS: 8-mile run as 2 miles @ TRP, remainder in z2/MP.
Thursday - 60 min MS: Entire run @ TRP, with 6 to 8 repeats of strides at the end ( 30” bursts @ 5k pace).
Week 23
Tuesday - 75 min MS: 3 x 10' (5’) @ z3/HMP, remainder of run is @ TRP.
Wednesday - 80 min MS: 8-mile run as 2 miles @ TRP, remainder in z2/MP.
Thursday - 60 min MS: Entire run @ TRP, with 6 to 8 repeats of strides at the end ( 30” bursts @ 5k pace).
Week 24
Tuesday - 45 min MS: Easy/Steady run at TRP, with 5 x 3’ (2’) @ z3/HMP.
Hey Coach P, my legs have been feeling extremely fatigued since the 20 miler on Sept 24th. Saying this, I have been able to hit every workout pace perfectly and got in a lot of miles last week (48 miles Tuesday through Saturday). I took Sunday and Monday off before the big mileage week to try and help my recovery and I think it helped a little but my legs felt very heavy during my 16 mile long run last weekend (although still hit the right pace).
Any advice for the next 13 days? I feel like my fitness is perfect to hit my goal race pace, I just don't want to over do it in the next 13 days.
Thanks for checking in. Let's dial it back big time for you for Thursday / Friday....no running really...then back on schedule this weekend.
You've done great work so a short rest then a good weekend should improve the TSB and take off the edge of that good work. The key is that you get back out there this weekend so you don't get too rested...deal?
Deal! Thanks again for your response. I know you are crazy busy this week with the camp and getting ready for Kona so I definitely appreciate the response. I still haven't done the Wednesday workout (will do in about 6 hours) - 2 miles at TRP and then 6 at MP. Since I did a hard workout yesterday, I am planning on just doing 8 at TRP then resting til Saturday unless I hear otherwise from you today.
Feeling a lot better coach! This week I have the following planned below...
Monday (Today) - Rest
Tuesday - 45 min MS: Easy/Steady run at TRP, with 5 x 3’ (2’) @ z3/HMP.
Wednesday - 6-mile run MS: 6 miles @ TRP
Thursday MS: 30' @ z1-2/LRP + 8 x 20" Strides
Friday - Rest
Saturday Do 2x30" @ race pace. with 2' recovery
Sunday Race Day!
I feel pretty good about the workouts above (but let me know if you still think they are good). The only thing somewhat worrying me right now is how tight my hip flexors are. I have been on top of stretching and trying to heat them to loosen them up a bit, but any insight would be appreciated.
Very common to be super tight right now. You might enjoy some light cycling tomorrow and then stretching out before the race. Remember that the first couple miles of the race are meant to help you use it to your piece, so don't force it. Does motion help you get on track. I'm sure you already have a race plan in place, but if you don't here is our guidance: http://bit.ly/2efqpWc
Got it done Coach! I can't thank you enough for all your help.
I assume I should just load up the post race recovery/transition plan for now and follow that similar to what I did post LP?
Right now the current 2017 plan is to run the Charlevoix Marathon on June 24th (B Race - May run 3:30 pace to get my fiancee and by then wife to Boston or try to get under 3 hours for more cushion for myself) and the Chicago Marathon October 8th (A Race - Hope to qualify for Boston again) and then several 5k-10k races during the year. As I am not doing triathlons anymore, I don't think I will stay with Endurance Nation but was wondering if you provide coaching through Marathon Nation somewhat similar to what EN does here (building a season). Let me know.
you are a beast! your splints were relentless and the outcome even more impressive. That is no small feat running that type of race after Lake Placid. Your next season sounds pretty good and yes, absolutely get into the recovery.
I do provide plans over marathon nation, as you know, and do consults as well as needed. How about you and I talk about next year and what I might be able to do for you via a call?
Comments
I am by no means suggesting that you dial the race back to Placid rather, I'm just pointing out that it's hard to plan for September only have increased in July 2
One of my biggest pet peeves is when athletes subconsciously undermine their performance by focusing on distant, future goals. You can absolutely excel at both events, but the first step towards that is committing fully to the event that is in front of you. Once you've done that race, you will know what you've done to your body and that will dictate how we will train you for your marathon.
As for your fiancé, yes I believe the intermediate MN plan would be perfect. Let me know if you have any questions about that.
Also, I tried to register on the MarathonNation site, but it doesn't appear the "register" button is working.
Thanks for your help!
Rich is presenting a webinar tomorrow at 5pm (central USA time) discussing post-IM transition. The webinars are also archived so you can watch later. I'm sure he'll give you good ideas here as well for your specific goal. Good luck with transitioning into Marathon training. Way to go in LP!!
To accelerate recovery I suggest a massage (light) and some light swimming or cycling (very short, under 30 minutes). All easy. We have about 4 weeks of recovery before we can get back to full training -- if we get it right you can have a great marathon. Get back to training too soon and you'll pay the price.
There's also a few post race resources under the Resources / Wiki / Self Coaching..... http://bit.ly/2adrzm1
Marathon Nation doesn't run the same as EN does with a forum and support...but I can answer your running questions over on our Facebook page: www.facebook.com/marathonnation
Thanks!
Accelerated recovery means getting one or two massages and doing daily stretching and foam rolling. I would plan on spending some time in the pool and easy cycling to get the legs flushed.
By the time you finish a recovery plan you should be beyond just doing easy runs and you'll be ready for the mileage. Let's make sure we check in at the end of those four weeks so we can make decisions about starting the run plan based off of how your legs feel at the time. Sound good?
My schedule is online here: http://meetme.so/patrickmccrann -- Please remember to include your phone number.
Rapid recovery to you!
~ Coach P
Tuesday
60 min
MS: 2 x 200, 3 x 400, 2 x 200, all at z5/IP w/ full recoveries between each.
Full recovery means AT LEAST as much time as the WORK INTERVAL, if not 1.5 times. Be ready to start the next one.
Wednesday
35 min
MS: 6 x 40" Up + 5" Sprint (2')
Uphill run is done as bounding at a steady effort, exaggerated arm swing, takeoff + landing. Time hill to be at top to start sprint. Easy jog back down.
~ Coach P
Should I just do the 2 below workouts for distance (Wednesday) and Time (Thursday) at MP? Or follow what is suggested in the plan? Based on our phone call a few weeks back, it sounded like I should be doing these types of workouts at MP.
Wednesday
100 min
10-mile run
MS: 9 miles @ z1/LRP, last 1 mile at z4 / TPace.
Should be done on rolling terrain.
Thursday
60 min
MS: 3 x (5' @ z2/MP, 4' @ z4/TP, 3' @ z1/LRP); Remainder of time @ z2/MP.
Also, my fiance is using the intermediate plan but from Marathon Nation. However, I have noticed that in her plan is a little different. It doesn't have additional time after interval runs or tempo runs. Just wanted to give you a heads up.
Lastly, I am hitting all my runs perfectly (mid week runs perfect at Z2/sometimes even around 640 and averaging 7:25ish (MP + 35 seconds) for my long Saturday runs). Is there anything I should change vs the plan over the next 5 weeks? (Stay at intermediate? Keep longest run at 20 miles? etc)
Thanks as always for your help.
Thanks for checking in. Yes to MP on the Wed long run..call is 2 miles at TRP, then 8 miles at MP.
For Thursday the Jury is out. I am okay with you doing a bit more Zone 3 time (HMP) for intervals. So this one would be 3 x 9’ @ z3/HMP with 3’ recoveries in Z1.
I think we keep rolling with the weekends as are. We can’t ask for more than what you are doing…to mess with it anymore might tip you over the edge. I would focus on nailing the heart rate number (so you know where you want to be on race day) and the nutrition…especially the last 1/3 of these runs.
Onwards!
~ Coach P
Ps thank you for the feedback on the MN plan
Week 22
Tuesday
80 min
MS: 2 x (7' @ z2/MP, 3' @ z1/LRP, 7' @ z4/TP, 3' @ z1/LRP)
Wednesday
80 min
8-mile run
MS: 4 miles @ z1 / LRP, last 4 miles at z3 / HMP.
Solid effort run!!!
Thursday
60 min
MS: 2 x [1 mile @ z4/TP, 2 x 400 @ z5/IP, 200 @ z5/IP] all w/ full recoveries; Remainder of time @ z2/MP.
Full recovery means AT LEAST as much time as the WORK INTERVAL, if not 1.5 times. Be ready to start the next one.
Week 23
Tuesday
75 min
MS: 2 x (6' @ z2/MP, 4' @ z1/LRP, 6' @ z4/TP, 4' @ z1/LRP)
Wednesday
80 min
8-mile run
MS: 5 miles @ z1/LRP, 1 mile @ Z4 / TPace, 1 mile @ z1/LRP, 1 mile @ Z4 / TPace.
Thursday
60 min
MS: 4 x 800 (4') @ Z5/IP; Remainder of time @ z2/MP.
Week 24
Tuesday
45 min
MS: 4 x 1/2 mile (2') @ z4/TP
Wednesday
60 min
6-mile run
MS: 6 miles @ z1/LRP
Week 22
Tuesday - 80 min
MS: 2 x 15’ (5’) @ z3/HMP, remainder is TRP
Wednesday - 80 min
MS: 8-mile run as 2 miles @ TRP, remainder in z2/MP.
Thursday - 60 min
MS: Entire run @ TRP, with 6 to 8 repeats of strides at the end ( 30” bursts @ 5k pace).
Week 23
Tuesday - 75 min
MS: 3 x 10' (5’) @ z3/HMP, remainder of run is @ TRP.
Wednesday - 80 min
MS: 8-mile run as 2 miles @ TRP, remainder in z2/MP.
Thursday - 60 min
MS: Entire run @ TRP, with 6 to 8 repeats of strides at the end ( 30” bursts @ 5k pace).
Week 24
Tuesday - 45 min
MS: Easy/Steady run at TRP, with 5 x 3’ (2’) @ z3/HMP.
Wednesday - 6-mile run
MS: 6 miles @ TRP
Any advice for the next 13 days? I feel like my fitness is perfect to hit my goal race pace, I just don't want to over do it in the next 13 days.
You've done great work so a short rest then a good weekend should improve the TSB and take off the edge of that good work. The key is that you get back out there this weekend so you don't get too rested...deal?
~ Coach P
~ Coach P
Monday (Today) - Rest
Tuesday - 45 min
MS: Easy/Steady run at TRP, with 5 x 3’ (2’) @ z3/HMP.
Wednesday - 6-mile run
MS: 6 miles @ TRP
Thursday
MS: 30' @ z1-2/LRP + 8 x 20" Strides
Friday - Rest
Saturday
Do 2x30" @ race pace. with 2' recovery
Sunday
Race Day!
I feel pretty good about the workouts above (but let me know if you still think they are good). The only thing somewhat worrying me right now is how tight my hip flexors are. I have been on top of stretching and trying to heat them to loosen them up a bit, but any insight would be appreciated.
Is there a way for us to track you on race day?
Bib # 2541
http://track.rtrt.me/e/COL-COLUMBUS-2016#/tracker
Or the RTRT.ME mobile app (Columbus Marathon)
I assume I should just load up the post race recovery/transition plan for now and follow that similar to what I did post LP?
Right now the current 2017 plan is to run the Charlevoix Marathon on June 24th (B Race - May run 3:30 pace to get my fiancee and by then wife to Boston or try to get under 3 hours for more cushion for myself) and the Chicago Marathon October 8th (A Race - Hope to qualify for Boston again) and then several 5k-10k races during the year. As I am not doing triathlons anymore, I don't think I will stay with Endurance Nation but was wondering if you provide coaching through Marathon Nation somewhat similar to what EN does here (building a season). Let me know.
you are a beast! your splints were relentless and the outcome even more impressive. That is no small feat running that type of race after Lake Placid. Your next season sounds pretty good and yes, absolutely get into the recovery.
I do provide plans over marathon nation, as you know, and do consults as well as needed. How about you and I talk about next year and what I might be able to do for you via a call?
My schedule is online here: http://meetme.so/patrickmccrann -- Please remember to include your phone number.
~ Coach P